Jacksonville Daily News
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Retracing Maria’s final steps

Lindell Kay | Cesar Laurean,Closer Look | Friday, April 25th, 2008

While I was writing about a local doctor with malpractice issues and an arrest at the Clinton rally, Mike was really busy too.

Here is his report:

Our hunch became fact as to where Maria Lauderbach was recorded by an ATM camera making a transaction on Dec. 14, 2007, at 4:19 p.m. Using the roof lines of the buildings behind Lauterbach and the objects that at first appeared to be flag poles on their roofs but later were revealed to be light poles in the parking lot. The angle of the sun on her shoulder we determined without a doubt that the ATM used by her is the Marine Federal Credit Union / Cash Points kiosk located at the Piney Green Shopping Center in Midway Park.

 

This afternoon, I traveled from that location to the Jacksonville Bus Station on Onslow Drive. I charted the duration of travel, distance and number of traffic lights. I left the ATM at 4:21 p.m. and traveled 7.3 miles through 15 intersections controlled by traffic lights. I arrived at the bus station at 4:40 p.m. I parked my vehicle and proceeded into the station and was greeted by Roshaun Hames, the Greyhound clerk.

 

I asked Hames how many buses leave tomorrow from here to El Paso. He said, “I have two buses that leave here: one at 10:05 a.m. and one at 5:50 p.m.” 

 

The cost for a one-way fare is $195. Had I made this reservation several weeks earlier, it would have cost substantially less. I asked Hames how long it would take to produce a ticket for me and he said, “you say go, and I hit the button and Bam!” At this point, he said, “El Paso, are talking about that girl.”

 

I said Maria Lauderbach, yes.

 

I asked Hames if he was working that day (Dec. 14) and he said he was. I asked him if he remembered her and again he nodded in the affirmative. I asked how long she was in the station and he said about 15 to 20 minutes arriving about at the same time that I did. I asked why so long since he had just told me that he only had to “hit the button” and Bam, out comes a ticket.

 

Well, Hames was assisting another customer when Maria arrived. When he was through with that customer he mistakenly thought that Maria was with that gentleman. At the conclusion of the transaction, Hames retreated to a back office leaving Maria alone and unassisted at the counter. After a brief time, she said something to gain his attention and he emerged to help her. According to Hames, Maria was relaxed and did not exhibit any outward tension or nervousness. She asked for a one-way ticket to El Paso for Saturday, Dec. 15 at 10:05 a.m. and paid for it in cash.

 

She brought no bags into the lobby, was by herself and once she had her ticket, she left the building and went to her car that was parked in the middle of the parking lot (fourth row in on the Merita Bakery side). I was in the bus station for seven minutes.

 

Hames remembers the car being moved around but couldn’t timeline that action.

 

I continued my drive from the bus station to 103 Meadow Trail, home of Cesar and Christina Laurean. I left the bus station at 4:47 p.m. and arrived at Laurean’s home at 5:00 p.m. covering 6.4 miles through seven traffic lights.

I backtracked my itinerary from 103 Meadow Trail to the Piney Green ATM and that trip took 32 minutes covering a distance of 12.8 miles. I drove through 23 intersections controlled by traffic lights.   

513 Comments »

  1. Thznk you so ever much for the above information. Looks like Maria’s intention WAS NOT to leave on the 14th, but rather the next day. Now I’m wondering where she had intended on staying that night……..hmmm!

    Comment by Sentry — April 25, 2008 @ 8:00 pm

  2. Makes me wonder if he killed her because the wifey was on her way home and Maria wouldn’t leave.

    Comment by 7 — April 25, 2008 @ 8:09 pm

  3. Or maybe 7 he wasn’t expecting Christina to come home at all that afternoon or evening???

    Comment by Sentry — April 25, 2008 @ 8:12 pm

  4. Thanks Lindell. Do you feel he would have told you if the bus that night was full and that was why Maria was planning on leaving Saturday AM?

    Or could Maria have heard a conversation between the gentleman in front of her and Hames and already known that it was possibly full?

    OR, is there any way to find out if it was full on the 14th?

    Comment by FoxyBrown — April 25, 2008 @ 8:18 pm

  5. Interesting thought Sentry.

    Comment by FoxyBrown — April 25, 2008 @ 8:18 pm

  6. She may not have realized the bus left so soon after her arrival at the station and perhaps still had some things to do.

    Comment by Nehi — April 25, 2008 @ 8:19 pm

  7. Maybe CL was supposed to meet her at the bus station and when he didn’t show, showed up at his house?

    Comment by Janet — April 25, 2008 @ 8:22 pm

  8. Thanks for the excellent information. I believe that is exactly what Maria did. From the ATM to the bus station to Cesar’s. The big question for me is why?

    Why go to Cesar’s?

    Also I always wondered if she bought the ticket for the next day and why? I thought maybe the bus was full on the 14th. Her intention was to leave on the 15th after all.

    Where she planned to spend that night is another puzzle.

    Comment by Lily — April 25, 2008 @ 8:24 pm

  9. Interesting theory Janet, but why not call him instead?

    Comment by Sentry — April 25, 2008 @ 8:26 pm

  10. I think he knew when Christina was going to come home.

    Comment by Lily — April 25, 2008 @ 8:29 pm

  11. We’ll pose that question to Hames. When I was at the bus station this afternoon at 5 p.m. there were less than 10 passengers milling around for the 5:50 p.m. departure.

    I believe this bus originates in Jacksonvile so the chances of it being sold out are remote. However it’s worthy of a question to Hames.

    I did ask him specifially if Maria appeared nervous or did she seem relax. He said she was relaxed.

    And I specifically asked if she had any bags with her in the station and his answer was “no”.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 25, 2008 @ 8:30 pm

  12. Does anyone think it’s possible for a bus leaving to go to El Paso including any stops in between would possibly be full?

    Comment by Lily — April 25, 2008 @ 8:33 pm

  13. Sorry Mike, I didn’t see your post.

    Comment by Lily — April 25, 2008 @ 8:35 pm

  14. Mike,
    Could you ask, or find out if any identification is required to purchase a ticket, and if so what did Maria show as an ID?

    Comment by Sentry — April 25, 2008 @ 8:36 pm

  15. I don’t know how bookings are done for buses but I guess anything is possibly possible during the holiday season. ;)

    Comment by FoxyBrown — April 25, 2008 @ 8:37 pm

  16. Are you thinking maybe someone else made the purchase Sentry?

    Comment by FoxyBrown — April 25, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

  17. No, I don’t FoxyBrown, just wanting to verify that point is all.

    Comment by Sentry — April 25, 2008 @ 8:43 pm

  18. If she paid in cash, not a check or credit card, she may have not needed to show identification. But who knows. Good point Sentry.

    Comment by Lily — April 25, 2008 @ 8:46 pm

  19. Mike, what route did you take when you left the bus station?

    Comment by Anonymous — April 25, 2008 @ 9:09 pm

  20. Anonymous, I turned right out of the bus station parking lot onto Onslow Drive which sweeps to the left within a 1/4 – 1/2 mile near Northwoods Shopping Center and merges into Henderson Drove. I took Henderson to Gum Branch uo to North Bryan Rd. and turned in the nerighborhood.

    I left the station at 4:47 p.m. and arrived at Cesar’s driveway precisely at 5:00 p.m, traveling 6.4 miles through moderate traffic. There were seven traffic lights.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 25, 2008 @ 9:14 pm

  21. sorry, it’s Henderson Drive.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 25, 2008 @ 9:14 pm

  22. If Hames thought she was with the guy in front of her, is there any possibility that guy was Cesar?

    Comment by Bee Taylor — April 25, 2008 @ 9:16 pm

  23. Bee Taylor:

    That’s an interesting thought though I do not believe the coordination of Cesar and Maria reached to that level as it related to the purchase of the bus ticket. I believe Maria arrived at the station while this fellow’s transaction was being processed. I do not believe Cesar was at the station or waiting outside in the car.

    However, it’s worth putting it in the list of questions for Hames.

    I’m going to look like Moses unfurling the Dead Sea Scrolls after everyone here (and at home: my wife has added a few to the list) contributes their excellent questions. This is good, folks. Keep them coming.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 25, 2008 @ 9:25 pm

  24. Bee that is a good question. I guess if the guy at the bus station is telling the truth, then Cesar must have already been with Maria at the ATM or is it oops another lie. Remember, Christina said that Cesar told her that he went to the bus station with Maria to help her purchase the ticket. Thanks Mike for the info.

    Comment by LTH — April 25, 2008 @ 9:35 pm

  25. Mike McHugh, didn’t the notes say Cesar helped Maria get a bus ticket?

    Comment by Justice4all — April 25, 2008 @ 9:38 pm

  26. Sorry Mike that me who asked about which direction you took.

    I see you took the Onslow to Henderson to Gum Branch to N. Bryan route but let’s suppose Maria went from Onslow to N. Marine (or as I say 17) to Western to Gum Branch to N. Bryan, that would have added some time to the trip (and several more stoplights). Also throwing into the mix since this was a payday Friday plus it was the last payday before Christmas, I’m sure traffic was a headache (but when isn’t a Friday payday traffic a headache?).

    Still irregardless of what time Maria arrived at Meadow Trail, the timeline is tight.

    By happen chance when you asked Mr. Hames about her car being moved around, did he say it was in the bus station parking lot, over by the Merita store or at Checker’s? Maybe Mr. Hames’ noticing her car being moved around was due to the “For Sale” sign in the back window.

    Comment by Sandy — April 25, 2008 @ 9:41 pm

  27. Sorry LTH, your post wasn’t there when I pressed the submit button. The notes reportedly said that Maria came to his house and demanded money, he went with her to the bus station and helped her buy a ticket. Well, it was her money from the atm and she wasn’t so “bedridden” that she couldn’t drive her car, and neither was she in such bad shape that she couldn’t stand in the bus station to get that ticket. I am sure Mr Hames would have noticed a pregnant lady having trouble standing at the counter or otherwise in distress. So, what did he help her with?

    Comment by Justice4all — April 25, 2008 @ 9:41 pm

  28. can you find out where the guys ticket was to? maybe it cesar and he bought a ticket also. when and where did he buy his?

    Comment by de — April 25, 2008 @ 9:42 pm

  29. I wonder if LE asked Mr. Hames that question?

    Comment by Justice4all — April 25, 2008 @ 9:45 pm

  30. Justice4all:
    You’re correct. The probable cause affidavit executed by Detective John Dubois and dated 1/12/08 stated in section 19, subsection k(4) “he then went to the bus station and helped Lauderbach to purchase a ticket.”

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 25, 2008 @ 9:48 pm

  31. Mike McHugh, do you have those documents? I may have missed al lot today I was busy with a project for my neighbor.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 25, 2008 @ 9:52 pm

  32. This may have been asked and I have missed it. Do we know if the documents were released yet?

    Comment by LT — April 25, 2008 @ 9:53 pm

  33. There may be something about this buying of tickets and leaving dates that is guarded info. for the trial. The timeline seems tight indeed. Just bout enough time before 7pm to answer the knock at the door, shout “what in the world are you doing here,” rush through the house swinging dangerous weapons, end up in the garage pick up THE blunt instrument swing it a few times, lock the door and sink down on the couch for a quick ten seconds before the little wifey came home…….what an athletic event!!!!! Maybe Christina did not stay the night, or maybe she left to go and pick up the little girl. I just can’t see Cesar carrying a comforter wrapped bundle to the woods or anywhere else in daylight. It was probably dark at 7pm on 14 Dec. I think Capt. Sutherland said in one of his “answers” that they know who dug the pit and when. I think there was something, too about knowing about her clothing. I hope I am not dreaming it, but I will go back and try to check. My memory is pretty sharp, but anybody can have hallucinations every once in a while.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 25, 2008 @ 10:02 pm

  34. Justie4all:
    I do and so can you. Go back to jdnews.com and in the Maria Lauderbach box on the home page click on documents. They’re in there.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 25, 2008 @ 10:05 pm

  35. I still do not beleive that christina knew nothing, saw nothing and did nothing. even IF she got there at 5 that is still only 2 hours to kill, hide clean up and act like nothing happened. He had to take a shower to clean himself up. Dont you think.

    Comment by de — April 25, 2008 @ 10:11 pm

  36. Mike McHugh, all I get are those phone records things, am I doing something wrong? I am not the world’s most computerish whizz.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 25, 2008 @ 10:13 pm

  37. Here is what I think happened, Maria and Cesar really were in love. They were planning a getaway to Mexico and were supposed to meet at the bus station at a given time. Cesar Did not show so Maria went to the house to find out what was going on. The rest is up to everyones imagination. But I have my own thoughts!!!!

    Comment by Concerned Jarhead — April 25, 2008 @ 10:17 pm

  38. Sorry Mike McHugh, I have just found it in documents say wife delayed report. I will read it.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 25, 2008 @ 10:23 pm

  39. justice4all, thats okay. You are trying to find out the same thing as me. I would like to hear the bus attendants description of the man that was in front of Maria, since his memory of her is so good.

    Comment by LTH — April 25, 2008 @ 10:25 pm

  40. Mike. do you know who Jennifer Perry (on the property form) and Sheila Snodgrass (on the incident report) are and how they factor in with the investigation?

    Comment by 7 — April 25, 2008 @ 10:26 pm

  41. Lets take a look CL’s sisters track record with married men as well.

    Comment by tuefelhund — April 25, 2008 @ 10:28 pm

  42. Justice4all
    Click on the Maria Lauderbach box on jdnews.com. when page loads, scroll down towards the botteom and clink on the teal coloered hyperlink titled Lauderbach Archives. Scroll down to the January 17 story. The docs. are there.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 25, 2008 @ 10:31 pm

  43. Tuefelhund, sounds like you know something that we dont. Can you tell us more?

    Comment by LTH — April 25, 2008 @ 10:31 pm

  44. NO I can say no more

    Comment by tuefelhund — April 25, 2008 @ 10:36 pm

  45. LTH, thanks for those kind words, I must be having a “mental dwarf” day, I already have those records, but for some reason I was all fired up hoping we had the latest ones. I do know, though, that Christina was absolutely correct to notify her command before she did anything at all else. She would have been on active duty and would have had to let her boss know that she couldn’t come in to work. If there is one thing that the military stresses, it is the “chain of command,” so she had to tell them and they most likely told her she would need one of them there, and a lawyer, and then the OCSD people. She might have had to be at work at 7am, or even 6:30am, but CERTAINLY by 8am. I do know that if you are in, or think you might be getting into, any trouble with the law you do have to report even if it is after hours. There is an Officer of the Day or something to report things to. I think there is A LOT that will come out later that we just aren’t privy to now. The timeline for all this is very tight indeed. I just don’t think Cesar did everything in one hour or so. Probably Maria spent the night in the garage. He might have got up in the night, or stayed up, but there is no saying if Christina actually spent the night at the house.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 25, 2008 @ 10:36 pm

  46. 7,
    Jennifer Perry is an aquaintance of Daniel Durham and Sheila Snodgrass’
    name appears on the OCSD dated 12-19-07 as a resident of Chicago

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 25, 2008 @ 10:41 pm

  47. Mike, did the Judge unseal the new docs yet….is Lindell still carrying that chunk of change?

    Comment by LT — April 25, 2008 @ 10:44 pm

  48. You know, I am wondering what the baby clothes she was burned with plays a role. It says that Maria took some personal items with her, and I am assuming they were left in her vehicle, so why was she buried with just the baby clothes? It just says they were a in a bag, but I am guessing it was a gift bag rather than a shopping bag, and maybe they were used to lure ML to CL’s house. I definitely thing the wife had to have at least known. I can’t wait until the trial is over and all of the evidence and info can be released, I am sure there is a lot that hasn’t come out yet. I pray for the Lauterbach family and Laurean family, this is such a terrible tragedy all around.

    Comment by Lula — April 25, 2008 @ 10:44 pm

  49. Mike,
    The Media photo released after Maria went missing looked nothing like the ATM shots on 12/14.

    Would you ask Mr. Hames what photos HE was shown of Maria that he was able to identify her?

    Comment by Sentry — April 25, 2008 @ 10:47 pm

  50. Mike, is it possible that Sheila was listed as a contact for Maria? IOW are they related by any chance?

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 25, 2008 @ 10:48 pm

  51. tuefelhund. Which CL? Christina or Cesar?

    Comment by Nehi — April 25, 2008 @ 10:50 pm

  52. mike why was their name even on the documents?

    Comment by de — April 25, 2008 @ 10:50 pm

  53. LT
    Answer to your two questions:

    No and Kind of……No, the judge has not unsealed the documents we’re all anxious to see and kind of on the petty cash. Lindell is doing his very best to keep that chunk of coin from burning a hole in his dockers….we headed to the border today for lunch…Taco Bell…the company funds are safe and still intact…..we got paid today, so we splurged with our own money!

    We do have some positve news to report. I fixed my childproof car window so now when we’re cruising the area for new photo opts, Lindell has complete control of lowering or raising my passenger window.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 25, 2008 @ 10:52 pm

  54. christina

    Comment by tuefelhund — April 25, 2008 @ 10:53 pm

  55. TY and glad you got that window fixed. Thanks again, nite.

    Comment by LT — April 25, 2008 @ 10:54 pm

  56. Mike McHugh, I re read those documents. Where Cesar is listed as having told Christina things, I notice he TOLD her (9) he had retained legal counsel and explained the facts to them and (10) He was told that he was facing the death penalty. Why was he going to the Lawyer on 10 Jan, if he had already sought advice and had been told of the DP? in (m) it mentions that he described his involvement in Maria’s death. I wonder if that is something we can’t see yet, but will be able to know about at the trial. IF there can be a trial after the circus on the Hill. I have been thinking, too. Those answers to the good Congressman contained the reason for “stellar” marine and “solid” marine. It was something to do with Maria’s having tardies and other things. Well, the latest letter trying to get DOD involved reiterates the stellar/solid gripe. DOD is the very Agency that formulates the very policies that the MC have put into practice. What a WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL boondoggle this will be. Reams of paper, tornadoes of words, lots of ruffled feathers, all to be referred back to “manual of procedure number whatever whatever whatever, article this and paragraph that….” I think Mrs. Lauterbach is sincere and well intentioned and there should be safeguards in place to safeguard not just women in the military, but also men who might be being molested in some way. But now might not be the most auspicious time for it. It may only serve to remove the very justice she wants. I expect defense lawyers (certainly the ACLU) are jotting down a few notes here and there…………

    Comment by Justice4all — April 25, 2008 @ 10:57 pm

  57. Mike, maybe the OCSD should check Hames background, his bankaccount and any big purchases that he might have made the month of January to make sure that he was not paid off. Something just does not smell right about him.

    Comment by LTH — April 25, 2008 @ 11:11 pm

  58. LTH ?

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 25, 2008 @ 11:12 pm

  59. Huh LTH?

    Hames paid off?

    Comment by Sandy — April 25, 2008 @ 11:23 pm

  60. Who would have had that kind of money? Not the Laurean’s.

    Comment by me too — April 25, 2008 @ 11:27 pm

  61. The U.S.M.C. ;) I sense next we’ll hear black helicopters are hovering around CLJ me too.

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 25, 2008 @ 11:30 pm

  62. I think Mr. Hames needs to be investigated. I do not believe he is telling the truth. I remember the day I saw him on the news being interviewed. He acted as someone that thought it was something big to be on tv. Something just seems strange about this man. What did he mean by noticing the car being moved around? Can he give more info as to where the man was going or even descibe him? Did he hear conversation between the man and Maria that made him think they were together, or just what did make him think they were together.

    Comment by ab — April 25, 2008 @ 11:31 pm

  63. Perhaps I should close my blinds…

    Comment by me too — April 25, 2008 @ 11:32 pm

  64. I’m sure that Onslow County has checked out their witnesses and not just taken what they have said as gospel. If they found Mr. Hames not to be credible, they would not be so certain that Maria bought the ticket herself.

    Comment by me too — April 25, 2008 @ 11:36 pm

  65. metoo, in this day and time, it doesn’t always take a lot of money to pay someone off to keep quite about something. Drugs cost and some people will do anything for them and sometimes people are dealing that would really surprise most people. Have we been told exactly what the phone records of his family have shown? Is it possible someone could have sent him money without knowing the true reason for him needing it?

    Comment by ab — April 25, 2008 @ 11:37 pm

  66. metoo I am proceeding to double lock my doors and get beneath the window sill level. Good grief do people really believe these things?

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 25, 2008 @ 11:43 pm

  67. What on earth leads you to believe that this man with a job was on the take? What makes you think he’s on drugs or a dealer? What would the probable cause be to search his or his family’s phone records? I think I know what you’re getting at, and I don’t like it. I think he came off as a man at work who helped Maria buy a bus ticket.

    Comment by me too — April 25, 2008 @ 11:48 pm

  68. CarpeDiem, Me too, and Miley, we would do not know for a fact that the OCSD is taking Hames word for certain since Sheriff Brown said that two different witness had told different stories. I guess it like when Miley was on the news saying that she had received threats from two marines with one of them being stationed at Lejeune, but in reality she had typed the messages herself and copied and pasted them, but yet these two poor guys was post all over the television set before any investigation was done. It’s not a perfect world we live in.

    Comment by LTH — April 25, 2008 @ 11:51 pm

  69. Me too (miley) why dont you just go play some for fantasy4. This is a blog for us to post our opinions and ask our questions and if you do not like our opinions or questions do not have to read them, just scroll on by why you are living in your fantasy world. Have a wonderful evening!!

    Comment by LTH — April 25, 2008 @ 11:54 pm

  70. We never know what is really going on around us and we certainly do not know people the way we want to think we do. If so, then Maria would probably be alive now. I hope Mr. Hames is a fine person, but no rock needs to be unturned. I did not name names.

    Comment by ab — April 26, 2008 @ 12:01 am

  71. My name is not Miley. And by your reaction it seems I hit the nail on the head. You are correct that it is a blog for US to post our opinions and ask OUR questions. I simply asked WHY it was presumed that this man was willing to take any amount of money to lie so that he had money to buy drugs. Or did I not read that post right? And I might give the same advice to you on scrolling on by. I do NOT share your opinion, and I am free to express that.

    Comment by me too — April 26, 2008 @ 12:06 am

  72. Yes you are, but of course we all know who are. I do not believe that the other poster said anything about him being on drugs, but instead was using it as an example. The way you came back at the other poster about you not liking it, why do you take such defense to it?

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 12:10 am

  73. Sorry everyone, me too if you would like to finish this conversation then I think we need to move it to the boxing ring.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 12:12 am

  74. Lori how about show some probable cause for this man to be under your microscope?

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 26, 2008 @ 12:14 am

  75. I did not take defense to it. I took offense to it. There is nothing that we know about that man that implies he would take any amount of money for drugs, as they are expensive (and yes, I believe that post inferred that he would take that money for drugs). I doubt I am the only one that will read that post and draw the same conclusion. OCSD has already said that they believe that Maria bought that ticket herself. Mr. Hames stated that he remembered her.

    Comment by me too — April 26, 2008 @ 12:22 am

  76. Carpediem, if you are referring to my post, who is Lori? My name is Lacey if you would like to be able to address me by first name. I think maybe you need to go back and watch the interview that was done with him, plus he said that he was waiting on the man when Maria came in but it he thought that she was with him. What gave him that idea? After waiting on the man he went to a back office until Maria got us attention a few minutes later, but yet after waiting on her I guess he watched her walk back to her car to see what she was driving. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that something doesnt smell right with this story.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 12:23 am

  77. What the heck?

    Mr. Hames paid off? How much? By whom? He would take money knowing that would involve him in a murder case? Geez Louise..why would he do that? Mr. Hames told the truth but I guess some don’t like what he had to say. He must be so smart that he has outfoxed all the police up there but is still working at the bus station.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 12:23 am

  78. Me too, how many times has someone lied just to get them selves on tv like Miley did? It would not be the first time and probably would not be the last time that somebody did. If you can show concrete evidence that he is telling the truth and nothing but the truth then I will accept that, but until then I will stick with my opinion. Have a great weekend!!

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 12:26 am

  79. You are right, me too. Sutherland and SB both have said it WAS Maria who purchased the ticket.

    So where is the lie by Mr. Hames? There isn’t one.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 12:29 am

  80. No one said that is was a lie about her purchasing the ticket, but I am questioning the way Mr. Hames remembers it.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 12:32 am

  81. Let’s stop second guessing this situation and let each one post his/her opinion. This is not the place for an argument. I would just like to know if Mr. Hames heard any conversation that would have made him believe the man in question and Maria were together.

    Comment by ab — April 26, 2008 @ 12:35 am

  82. I agree with you ab. Sorry everyone, it just upsets me when some on here act as if they can say what they want but no one else can. I just feel that Mr.Hames story needs a little bit more explanation.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 12:38 am

  83. Mike,
    Can you find out why Hames thought that Maria was with the gentlemen that he was waiting on when Maria arrived? How is it that he was waiting on a customer when she arrived, but yet he knew what time she arrived? After waiting on the gentlemen did he not do the good customer service deed and wait for the gentlemen to walk away from the counter? Why did he go to the back office after finishing the transaction with the gentlemen, but yet after finishing the transaction with Maria he was able to know where she parked right down to the row? These are somethings that I believe would clear things up as far as his story. Thanks.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 12:45 am

  84. Have you read the questions and answers threads here?

    I think Captain Southerland made it clear they have interviewed and re-interviewed to get the correct answers and determine the timeline of this alleged crime.

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 26, 2008 @ 12:46 am

  85. CarpeDiem, I have just been reading some posts on the jdnews.com “Congressman urges DOD….” and on there one poster talks about Christina as not only being in contact with Cesar, but also supplying him with funds. I thought that the original story was very firm indeed about Christina repeatedly refusing to send him money. Any ideas?

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 12:53 am

  86. I have read them, but until they talk with Laurean, they do not know everything. Giving the timeline that we have been giving, I do not believe there was enough time to do everything and that is even with saying that the body was no buried right away. By the amount of blood that we have been lead to believe was present in the garage and at least one room of the home, then the killer must have been covered in blood also, so they would have to hide the murder weapon, the body, Maria’s clothes, clean up all the blood out of the garage and at least the one room of the house and them selves:it just does not fit with the timeline in my opinion. Do you think that it fits with the timeline?

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 12:54 am

  87. I can try to paste it onto here:

    hey, givemeabreak I have some things for you to ponder. The USMC dropped the ball in more ways then one but hey, we are all human. USMC needs to stop thinking that they are above the rest, they are not and I am merely talking about the superiors and NCIS who were handling this case. Not the enlisted who do all the work and that our country is so proud of. We all know that Laurean is a killer but what is really sickening is Christina let Laurean get a head start knowing she had two bodies in her backyard, she communicated with him from day one without disclosing to LE or others and she even supplied him with funds to stay on the run. Now here we have an enlisted USMC, are they doing anything about her actions, no. I think the reason why is that USMC and NCIS would like to see this case go bye bye because we have a lot more people going down now. Of course, this is clearly my opinion against yours. Not to say one is right or wrong.

    clues – Apr 25, 2008 12:21:49 PM Remove Comment

    ——————————————————————————–

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 12:56 am

  88. LTH, I notice a link on here to blueline radio. When I went to it there is a link to trauma in pregnancy. Now, I am wondering about all that blood. I know face, lips, mouth, and scalp wounds bleed like crazy, just a little nick in the scalp bleeds a lot, so head injuries do bleed. BUT, I wonder if the bleeding would be into the brain, not outwards. Just a thought, I don’t really know, but to get back to the blueline link. I got to wondering, all the blood could be accounted for if Maria was injured and the placenta began slipping from the walls of the uterus, or something similar. Or, after death if the placenta began to separate. Of course, we don’t know what was on the ceiling either. That would mean that the attacker might not be covered in blood. If she lay in the garage overnight the blood would pool.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 1:03 am

  89. Justice4all, I do believe I recall Sheriff Brown using the amount of blood traces and the locations of it to describle what he called a violent crime scene. I do not believe that the blood had anything to do with the placenta as it would be hard for that to get on the walls much less the ceilings. About the comment of the funds, I think that they might have meant the money that OCSD thinks that Laurean fled the area with, but not sure.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 1:13 am

  90. Justice4all, I forgot, capt sutherland said that the blood in the garage was consisten with a stuggle, so that tells me that who ever is responsible for this crime had blood on them too.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 1:16 am

  91. Thanks LTH, I must have missed that. Wonder what happened to all the bloodstained clothing? If it was all put into a trash bag and taken to the dump there would not have been any point searching the landfill for it a month later. I am going to go back and look at capt. Sutherland’s answers to part 3 because I think there was something about Maria’s clothes in it.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 1:21 am

  92. Has anyone thought about why Christina would want to go back active duty when she would be assigned to the same unit as her husband who is accused of raping a fellow female marine with the same unit? I know if it was me, I would be embrassed to be seen by everyone on base while my husband was accused and the female who accused him was pregnant. Could it have been that she was trying to keep an eye on him or that maybe she thought she would be able to run into Maria on a daily basis and harass her somemore? Christina’s timing of wanting to go active duty would make one wonder.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 1:30 am

  93. Something else justice4all, didnt they say that the video from lowe’s showed him buying the cement blocks, paint and wheelbarrow? If he didn’t buy the paint until the 16th, then what did you use to paint with to cover everything up to keep Christina from seeing it?

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 1:34 am

  94. She might just have thought things would not work out with her marriage and needed a steady job with benefits. It may have been time for her to re-up with the reserves and she decided active duty was best. Did you hear anything about her sending money to Cesar whilst he was on the run? I cut and pasted something about it from a poster at the jdnews.com site? I thought LE were very very positive that she refused all requests for help.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 1:36 am

  95. Good point LTH. It is difficult to determine what that garage may originally have looked like. I saw one pic early in the investigation and it looked like LE had everything the Laureans owned out on the front lawn. I don’t know if that rectangle of brownish paint was the “painted over” bit or if it is the “not painted because of the storage tubs being in front of it” piece. Did the garage get painted white, or did one piece get painted brown. I think I remember somewhere, a q&a or something about evidence that only Ceasar did the coverup painting, but other painting in the house may have been done by others. If Christina was average height, about 5ft 3ins to 5ft 6ins she would have had to prance through that house like a giraffe just to examine the ceiling. Only Goliath would have been able to look at the ceiling easily.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 1:41 am

  96. They said that blood was on the walls too, so she would have been able to see that very easily unless she is blind and she would have been able to smell the cleaning supplies.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 1:44 am

  97. You are right LTH. Very mysterious indeed. If I came home from anywhere and found my husand cleaning and painting and so forth they would have to take me out by helicopter to the shock/trauma unit!!!! But, I don’t think he did do all of that right away. She may have come home and gone right back out to get the little girl, or she might have been very annoyed that he didn’t come to the party and may have gone out to fast food for something to eat!

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 1:59 am

  98. I believe that if she had turned around and left right after arriving, the LE would have all ready mentioned that, but nothing has been said about it.

    Comment by LTH — April 26, 2008 @ 2:02 am

  99. thanks LTH. I will return tomorrow. Bye

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 2:11 am

  100. thanks LTH. I will return tomorrow. Bye

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 2:11 am

  101. Christina wasn’t in the same unit as Cesar. As I recall, she was with MHG and Cesar MLG. Yes, they are both under MEF-I believe-but that is it. Also, as to staying active duty. I can answer that. The pay is better, the pay is stead-2x a month. The way jobs are around here and only paying $9/hour, she was probably making more money being active duty. There have been times that my husband has said if something happened with his job and we needed a job to support our families, he would go back active duty.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 26, 2008 @ 8:33 am

  102. Mike, thank you for doing a timeline. Is it possible that the drive times could have taken longer for Maria since it was payday weekend and some Marines released at noon?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 26, 2008 @ 8:34 am

  103. AnnDaniel, thanks for your most informative posts. Well, I have been reading carefully the q&a for part 3. Somehow, the way it is worded about the timeline makes me think there really is something missing. There may be a clue at the bus station. Why would Mr. Hames think Maria was with the previous man? The Military also offers other benefits and Christina may have felt that she needed the independence of active duty since things might be crumbling at home.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 8:46 am

  104. I think that is common, Justice4. I have been standing in line behind someone and the cashier will ask me “are you with him/her/them?”

    These tickets have numbers assigned to them so I am sure if LE thought it were someone connected to this case they would have traced that ticket number down too like they did Maria’s. They are even able to tell that it was never used so the computer holds the number in its system.

    Whomever that person was may now be an eye witness also and may have remembered Maria waiting to buy her ticket.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 8:59 am

  105. Thanks Drake Garrett, I hadn’t thought of that. Amazing how computers have made things qicker, and also pretty traceable too!

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 9:05 am

  106. We don’t know that LE didn’t track down the holder of the ticket purchased before Maria purchased hers.

    We also don’t know when and where Cesar purchased his ticket.

    I’m sure LE knows by now, but they haven’t released that info.

    Comment by Bee Taylor — April 26, 2008 @ 9:21 am

  107. I am just wondering if the original plan was for maria and cesar to run off together on Sat,either that WAS the plan or cesar wanted her to THINK it was the plan. A perfect time to sneak away with christinia working on sat at the recruiting station. One thing no one has thought of..if christina returned home at 7pm, she may have gone right to bed after bitching out cesar. Didnt she have to get up at 4am for her drive to raleigh?
    Maybe Abrianna was staying over Ambers house,if not then christinia was prob too busy getting her ready for bed to notice anything.The house would have been pretty dark, right, and she would have no reason to go into the cluttered garage. I don’t think they had room to park a car in there. Then cesar has all day sat to finish cleaning up,dig a hole and bury the body. I think the body may have been stored in the trunk of maria’s car,or the back corner of the garage wrapped in an old comforter and camaflauged by boxes and bags and stuff.

    Comment by curious — April 26, 2008 @ 9:30 am

  108. Or she could have kept him up all night, bitching because he did not show up and made her look foolish in front of everyone.

    All I know if she came in right after it happened and decided to cover up for him thinking he had done it out of his love for her then he had all the time in the world and the time line is endless. Even Sutherland admits the time line is very tight.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 9:35 am

  109. Drake, what if she enjoyed being at the party and had a great time. After all, if she had been there solely waiting for hubby who didn’t show she might not have stayed. She probably knew several people, too. And, it was Christmas. Almost everyone likes a get-together. There is food and companionship.

    Comment by Justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 9:42 am

  110. curious, I don’t think she was working at the recruiting station in Raleigh on 12/14. If I’m reading the MC response letter right, she was originally assigned there when she was reactivated on 1/4. Prior to 1/4, she was in the reserves, wasn’t she?

    Of course, if that’s the case and she was in Raleigh on 1/4, she would have been there the week before Cesar hopped a bus from there.

    Comment by Bee Taylor — April 26, 2008 @ 9:46 am

  111. Maria could have planned to stay at a local motel on the night of the 14th. I wonder if the motels were all full on that night. Maybe Cesar was to have stayed with her that night?
    I know. Doesn’t make sense, but nothing about this case does!

    Comment by Carolyn — April 26, 2008 @ 9:57 am

  112. I just find that hard to believe under the existing circumstances. The base had to be rampant with whispers and gossip about all of this. If she did show up and he failed to do so then I think trying to save face she would have pretended she was enjoying the party and forced herself to stay awhile.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 10:02 am

  113. I find it hard to understand why Hames is running his mouth. Maybe he isn’t even going to be a witness in the case. I would think he would have been told not to talk about the case.

    Good find Mike. I hope he keeps talking.

    Comment by Lily — April 26, 2008 @ 10:46 am

  114. Mike, did you get a look at the camera (maybe not a camera) seen in a still picture on the back wall behind Hames?

    I would really like to know if he was shown pictures of Maria to ID her.

    Comment by Lily — April 26, 2008 @ 10:51 am

  115. Lily,
    How else could Mr. Hames had identified Maria without photos?

    I’d like to know what photos he was shown, and already asked that here http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=152#comment-2252

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 12:08 pm

  116. I was wondering how he could possibly identify her without being shown a picture too Sentry.

    I see many opportunities lost for camera footage in this tragedy with the time lapse and the conflicting information OCSD was provided with by the family and the military.

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 26, 2008 @ 12:19 pm

  117. That had been one of my questions to Captain Sutherland.

    Comment by Carolyn — April 26, 2008 @ 12:21 pm

  118. The pic of Maria with long hair would not have accurately depicted her.

    Comment by Carolyn — April 26, 2008 @ 12:22 pm

  119. I agree Carolyn. The photos of Maria released to the Media were High School & Military photos, and she wasn’t wearing glasses in either of them.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 12:31 pm

  120. Maybe LE showed Hames a still of Maria at the ATM wearing the same clothing she would have been wearing at the bus station?

    Comment by JB — April 26, 2008 @ 12:38 pm

  121. I have no doubt they showed him the most recent photo they had of her. I don’t think they would show him her high school picture. She didn’t look anything like that picture in her Marine Corps pictures. In the ATM shot she isn’t wearing her glasses. Between that shot and some of the ones we have seen taken in the Corps it looks like Maria so he would be able to identify her imo.

    By what Sutherland has said they are sure the woman in the bus station buying the ticket was Maria. Maybe they have other witnesses by now that saw her in and around the bus station at that time.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 12:38 pm

  122. Drake Garrett,
    YES, Maria was wearing glasses in the ATM shot!

    Not disputing whether Maria bought the bus ticket, just curious as to what photos were shown to Mr. Hames that made him positive it was her.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 12:46 pm

  123. Sentry, thanks for the correction.

    Didn’t she have photos where she is also wearing her glasses? I thought the photo of her standing there with her dad at boot camp graduation looked very much like Maria did when she was at the ATM machine.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 12:58 pm

  124. Yes Drake, that shot was close to looking like her ATM shot, just different style glasses.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 1:01 pm

  125. Maria is so much prettier than those shots. I thnk God that she was oblivious to what was about to become she and Gabriels fate. It is heartbreaking.

    Comment by Carolyn — April 26, 2008 @ 1:31 pm

  126. *thank (typo)

    Comment by Carolyn — April 26, 2008 @ 1:32 pm

  127. Where was cesar from 12 noon on when he was let out of work?

    And I had another thought…all this time Le thought it didnt make sense for a very pregnant woman to take a bus somewhere on her own and leave the support of her family behind and her medical. It makes sense if SOMEONE was going with her or was picking her up at the first busstop on the way to El Paso. El Paso may have been a decoy so the MC couldn’t track Maria or perhaps even cesar if he was leaving with her.

    she would have had to have SHOWN her Military ID
    U.S. Military, $198 Round Trip

    Select Departure Schedule for Saturday, April 26, 2008

    Departs
    10:05am

    CAROLINA TRAILWAYS

    Print Close Window
    Schedule Details

    Location Arrives Departs Layover Carrier Schedule

    JACKSONVILLE, NC 10:05am CCP 0382

    NEW BERN, NC 11:15am 11:20am :05 CCP 0382

    KINSTON, NC 11:59am 11:59am CCP 0382

    GOLDSBORO, NC 12:30pm 12:35pm :05 CCP 0382

    SMITHFIELD, NC 12:55pm 12:55pm CCP 0382

    RALEIGH, NC 01:40pm CCP 0382

    RALEIGH, NC Transfer 04:00pm 2:20 GLI 1051

    RS MEBANE, NC 04:50pm 05:20pm :30 GLI 1051

    CHARLOTTE, NC 07:20pm 08:30pm 1:10 GLI 1051

    GASTONIA, NC 09:00pm 09:00pm GLI 1051

    SPARTANBURG, SC 09:55pm 09:55pm GLI 1051

    GREENVILLE, SC 10:40pm 10:55pm :15 GLI 1051

    ATLANTA, GA 01:25am GLI 1051

    ATLANTA, GA Transfer 05:30am 4:05 GLI 1523

    BIRMINGHAM, AL 07:00am 07:45am :45 GLI 1523

    TUSCALOOSA, AL 08:50am 08:55am :05 GLI 1523

    MERIDIAN, MS 10:25am 10:35am :10 GLI 1523

    JACKSON, MS 12:05pm 01:05pm 1:00 GLI 1523

    VICKSBURG, MS 01:55pm 01:55pm GLI 1523

    MONROE, LA 03:15pm 03:30pm :15 GLI 1523

    RUSTON, LA 04:10pm 04:10pm GLI 1523

    GRAMBLING, LA 04:25pm 04:25pm GLI 1523

    MINDEN, LA 05:05pm 05:05pm GLI 1523

    SHREVEPORT, LA 05:40pm 06:30pm :50 GLI 1523

    MARSHALL, TX 07:15pm 07:15pm GLI 1523

    LONGVIEW, TX 07:45pm 07:45pm GLI 1523

    TYLER, TX 08:30pm 08:40pm :10 GLI 1523

    MESQUITE, TX 10:05pm 10:05pm GLI 1523

    DALLAS SOUTH PARK &, TX 10:30pm GLI 1523

    DALLAS SOUTH PARK &, TX Transfer 11:25pm :55 GLI 1415

    FT WORTH, TX 11:59pm 12:10am :11 GLI 1415

    ABILENE, TX 02:40am 03:20am :40 GLI 1415

    BIG SPRING, TX 05:10am 05:15am :05 GLI 1415

    RS BIG SPRING, TX 05:20am 05:55am :35 GLI 1415

    MIDLAND, TX 06:40am 06:45am :05 GLI 1415

    ODESSA, TX 07:10am 07:20am :10 GLI 1415

    PECOS, TX 08:40am 08:40am GLI 1415

    VAN HORN, TX 10:10am 10:45am :35 GLI 1415

    EL PASO, TX 11:45am

    Comment by curious — April 26, 2008 @ 3:59 pm

  128. Curious,
    It was said early on by Sheriff Brown that Cesar has requested on Thursday to have the following day (Friday) off. IF this is still the case then Cesar could have purchased his ticket/tickets earlier that day.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 4:06 pm

  129. What about Tuefelhund’s hint? CL’s sister was clarified as being Christina’s sister.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 4:28 pm

  130. justice, who cares what Amber does unless it pertains to any involvement in the case?

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 4:30 pm

  131. justice4all, Im curios about that one too? What would that have to do with anything?

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 4:31 pm

  132. Well, Sentry and de, it seemed to me that tuefelhund was giving us a hint and couldn’t speak further. The second post said “NO I can say no more.” Almost as if he/she wants us to dig a bit deeper there. I almost hesitate to say what COULD be a possibility, but why such a cryptic post? Maybe Cesar should have been a sailer….girl in every port!?!
    He may indeed have “a way with women” as it were. I have 6 sons and one is such a goodhearted and solid citizen, but just does NOT read the signals with girls. I can see the girl in the checkout line giving him the smile and little hints of liking him, but he sees NOTHING AT ALL. Now another boy is magnetic to the girls, he has no trouble whatever finding people to talk to and date. I just don’t know exactly what it is, but some have it and some don’t. The only trouble with one of those “ladies’ men” is the old saying from the song….”It’s not just that the money you make is chickenfeed, it’s because I know I’m not the ONLY chicken you feed.” I just have a feelling Tuefelhund may know something, or think he/she knows something and wants to get it out into the open but is prevented somehow. He/she could always go to the library and use a computer. I don’t think they can trace just which computer each patron uses.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 4:42 pm

  133. So maybe amber has exs that might have helped in some way?

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 4:48 pm

  134. justice4all it says thst the shifflets are from vandalia oh, correct me if im wrong but isnt that where maria was from? maybe they knew each other if thats where they were both from, if it, is then maybe this is something that started there. maybe im just crazy but its just a thought.

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 5:14 pm

  135. How old is Amber?

    Comment by Bee Taylor — April 26, 2008 @ 5:17 pm

  136. de,
    The Shifflets live in Prospect, Ohio, NOT Vandalia

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 5:22 pm

  137. Amber is a bit younger than Christina, from what I think I have heard. Somehow I almost got the feeling that Tuefelhund was afraid to go further.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 5:55 pm

  138. Is someone trying to say Amber dabbled in married men or that she dabbled in CESAR?

    Please don’t tell me that stumpy pimple faced Cesar was a chick magnet…HURL

    Comment by curious — April 26, 2008 @ 5:55 pm

  139. sorry sentry my bag

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 5:56 pm

  140. de, I’m not sure really, what to think, I just got the feeling that there is something for us to think about, but what direction to take is uncertain. I am going back to read those few posts close to tuefelhund’s appearance. I think Tuefelhund (Devil Dog) was what the German’s called the marines because the marines just kept on coming and drove the Germans back. Just didn’t let up for anything. Wonder if there is a clue there or if it is a Marine poster? Anybody have any ideas? It must have some bearing on the case or tuefelhund would not have entered it.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 6:00 pm

  141. de, it was right around the bus station items, then when LTH said it sounded like tuefel knew something and asked could he say more, he said NO, I can say no more.
    curious, I don’t really know, that thought had occurred to me but she is fairly young. Although Maria was young. 20 on 13 Nov 2007 I think. I wish tuefel would trust us. If there is something important to the case he/she needs to tell it to the appropriate person. I think the Sheriff’s department could put anybody onto the proper person to talk to. If I had even a whiff or a hint of knowledge about this I would run down to the LE so fast smoke would come out of the back of my shoes. I hope tuefel can be encouraged to say whatever needs to be said. You can always remain anonymous, too, that’t the good thing. You absolutely do not have to give your name and you can’t be traced if you use a public phone.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 6:09 pm

  142. justice4 all,
    Why would you think a post made by someone using the name of tuefelhund meant anything other than the specualtion it achieved?

    As for Amber and Tyler, think they’re both 23 years old.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 6:10 pm

  143. curious, that is a good thing you posted about the bus. Round trip? Do you think it was one way or round trip? I expect LE would know. I feel terrible for Maria, poor soul. Whatever the circumstances or any other thing, she was giving life to that precious baby and a chance to be born and live.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 6:17 pm

  144. Thanks sentry. Just turning over every stone, I hope I am not imagining stones, though.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 6:29 pm

  145. Cesar couldn’t have done everything in about an hour. Very likely the burial was the next day or during the night or something. The garage could be cleaned up later, too. As far as smelling cleaning chemicals. Since it was a garage, if he sprayed brakecleen or wd-40 those would mask any other smell except bleach. Some bleach is floral scented, though.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 6:33 pm

  146. A refresher read in order for some…………as per Mikes post:

    “The cost for a one-way fare is $195. Had I made this reservation several weeks earlier, it would have cost substantially less”

    “She asked for a one-way ticket to El Paso for Saturday, Dec. 15 at 10:05 a.m. and paid for it in cash”

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 6:34 pm

  147. Thanks Sentry. I got buffaloed by the actual itinerary which said round trip.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 6:39 pm

  148. Not only did she buy a one way with cash,but she bought a MILITARY fare in which she would HAVE TO HAVE SHOWN her Military ID………..There’s your POSITIVE identification, folks. Lauterbach is an unusual name.Her name would have to be typed on her ticket as well. I am confident that the clown at the bus station ID’d her.

    if you noticed on the bus schedule I posted, there was a 2 hour 20min layover in Raleigh.perhaps that is where SOMEONE might either join her on the bus or pick her up to g to parts unknown.

    RALEIGH, NC 01:40pm CCP 0382

    RALEIGH, NC Transfer 04:00pm 2:20 GLI 1051

    this is a 24 hour trip getting into El Paso 11:45am central time. there is no way I believe Maria could survive this trip being on a cramped bumpy bus for a full day and sleeping on it overnight. I couldn’t even do it and I am not 8 mo’s pregnant.BRUTAL.Could she even fit into the bathroom?
    I don’t think her destination was El Paso. That was a DECOY IMO.

    It is perplexing as to why she would leave her mother in the dust as she was planning on coming to Jacksonville.

    Comment by curious — April 26, 2008 @ 6:48 pm

  149. Remember that Cesar stated everything occured on December 15th, not the 14th in his note to Christina. It makes sense that this is the date she gave her parents. Bruce Shifflet stated Christina was at work when everything happened. This leads to believe that it was her weekend in the reserves which would mean she left early on Saturday morning. Cesar could have left Maria’s body in the garage or in the back yard on Friday night. (All of the fence panels were still there until the burning so no one could have entered the back yard). He bought the paint, wheelbarrow, concrete blocks on Sunday 16th, according to CNN. Their garage looked like a junk room, storage space and way too small to contain a lawn tractor, push mower, etc., and fit a vehicle in there. If Christina was really at work, he could have done the burning Sat. nite, covered the grave and made Christina believe he had gotten a lot of chores done while she was working.

    Comment by JB — April 26, 2008 @ 7:00 pm

  150. Christina was on active duty until January 2008…so she would be on active duty and not doing weekend drills. The only way she was at work on base on Saturday is if she was standing duty.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 26, 2008 @ 7:12 pm

  151. Do you think it’s possible that Maria did go to cesars on fri aft and then stayed at a motel overnight, then went back to his house on sat am before she was scheduled to get on the bus and thats when she was killed?
    Was she ever planning on using that bus ticket that looked like the trip from HELL for someone in her condition.

    look at this layover in Atlanta arriv 1:25 am then a 4 hour layover leaving atlanta at 5:30 am…can you imagine hanging out in a greyhound station in atlanta in the middle of the night? SCARY.

    ATLANTA, GA 01:25am GLI 1051

    ATLANTA, GA Transfer 05:30am 4:05 GLI 1523

    Comment by curious — April 26, 2008 @ 7:15 pm

  152. AnnDaniel, wasn’t her packet approved sometime a little earlier to put her onto active duty somewhere in January? Wouldn’t she still be weekend duty in December?

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 7:28 pm

  153. It was my understanding that Christina was in the reserves and went to active duty in Jan and also the days Cesar requested off were in jan also the thurs and fri were the days before he ran for the border.

    Cesar said she died on sat the 15th.
    He also said she was there twice.
    Christina was at ‘work’

    I want to know where Abrianna was when all this was going down. Please don’t tell me that little girl was there during the struggle and watched her daddy dig a hole and throw maria in it.

    Comment by curious — April 26, 2008 @ 7:31 pm

  154. According to what the Marines responded to the Congressman..Christina was ordered to active duty in 2007, those orders were set to expire in January 2008. She submitted a package in October 2007 to stay on active duty. That package was approved in January 2008.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 26, 2008 @ 7:37 pm

  155. I’ve never posted here – but I have read ALL the posts about this case and I have done ALOT of research on the people involved.
    I have some info and some ideas for everyone.

    Amber’s DOB is 08/06/1986. Her full maiden name is Amber Louise Smith. I think what tuefelhund MAY be referring to is that: If you look at the public info available through Onslow Co website – you will notice that Amber’s son PROBABLY was not fathered by her husband, Tyler. The child’s last name is Smith, and he was born the year before Amber and Tyler got married. Maybe Amber’s son was fathered by a married man? Just a thought – I do not know that as fact.

    Some other thoughts I have had about this case…

    1) How is it possible that there is a Comforter missing from her house and Christina not notice it being gone? My house is ALOT larger than the Laurean house, and I would certainly notice if something that large was missing from a bedroom, or even the linen closet.

    2) It might be worth looking into (by Lindell or Mike) – the names of the witnesses for CL and CL AND Amber and Tyler on their marriage certificates. I found Cesar’s and Tyler’s witnesses on MySpace. Cesar’s witness lived on Laran Rd which I believe is the road that runs beside Amber and Tyler’s house. Also, he AND the witness for Tyler Emrick apprear to be about the same size as the guy with Cesar at Lowe’s. Cesar’s witness’ name is Jose and Tyler’s witness’ name is also Tyler. It appears that Jose has been restationed at a different USMC base now and that Tyler may be out of the USMC now – but, I think that has happened very recently. It’s worth some looking into…

    3) I think that the Denver, CO phone number that LE is looking into belongs to someone in Tyler Emrick’s family. They live very close to the Denver area.

    4) A thought on where the Laurean’s would get the $$ to “payoff” Mr. Hames (that is not my theory, but…) maybe that is why LE requested records from Western Union. I don’t think that his parents sent him money to escape on, because there was a man on Greta Van Sustern’s show that indicated that Cesar did not have very much money when he fled. Plus, if CL had had plenty of money when he fled, I think he would have had more that 10 pesos when he was arrested. Things in Mexico are much cheaper than is US, and he was only on the run for 90 days.

    Just some thoughts for everyone to ponder….

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 7:40 pm

  156. Thank you AnnDaniel that clears up the confusion for me.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 7:49 pm

  157. Don’t forget that LE said early on that there was blood spatter in the livingroom of the Laurean house. I think he hit her in the livingroom and knocked her unconcious, then took her into the garage to ‘finish her off’. That garage isn’t very large, and if you look at the picture of LE putting everything back into the garage, it was alot of stuff. It doesn’t seem like there is much room in the garage for moving around. That’s why I think Maria was unconcious or at least incoherent when she got to the garage. I think the “signs of a struggle” was more like CL using the crowbar to kill Maria than the idea of Maria and CL actually struggling with each other.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 7:51 pm

  158. He had 10 peso’s in his pocket. that doesn’t mean he didnt have a stash hidden in the cabin he was hiding out in.

    Anyone know what units Amber and Tyler were in? did they also attend the party with Christinia?

    Comment by curious — April 26, 2008 @ 7:55 pm

  159. Another thing I would like to know about Christina’s story to LE is…

    How in the world was she able to lay down and go to sleep on Thursday night after CL had told her that Maria was buried in her back yard ?!? She said that she was asleep when Cesar left the house at 4 a.m. Doesn’t sound right to me…

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 7:56 pm

  160. curious, I’m sorry… I thought LE said he only had 10 pesos – period. That’s why he was trying to get Christina to send him money. LE stated, “By cutting off his $$ sources, that is why he was located so quickly.” something like that… Sorry if I mis-spoke (typed). I will go back and read the articles again…

    Thanks!

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:00 pm

  161. LAnVB, I think he told her that he buried Maria in the woods.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 8:00 pm

  162. Cesar said she was buried in the woods.Christina probably slept quite well for the first time in a long time. Her rival “committed suicide”.problem over.

    Comment by curious — April 26, 2008 @ 8:03 pm

  163. Timeline theory…

    CL killed or almost killed Maria on Friday evening between 5PM and 7PM and wrapped her in the comforter and took her to the wooded area behind his house Friday night. Remember, he told Christina that “he buried her in the woods behind the house”.

    Then, on Saturday while Christina was at work, he dug the hole in his backyard and retreived Maria from the wooded area and buried her in the backyard.

    Then, on Sunday he went to Lowe’s to buy the cinderblocks to make the firepit in an attempt to cover up the freshly turned soil in the yard.

    just a thought…

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:14 pm

  164. Those “woods” are in his backyard. She still knew that Maria was buried within a few yards of her backdoor! I’m just saying that regardless of where he buried Maria… If my husband told me that he was present when someone died and then he disposed of the body… I wouldn’t be able to sleep for days…!

    I know people handle things differently, but Christina is only 25 years old. At that age, I would have been extremely anxious about the news! (And I worked in LE and saw alot of bad stuff and heard about a lot of bad stuff, and I STILL would not have been able to rest!)

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:19 pm

  165. LAnVB,
    Some of the early reports in this case have been proven to be INACCURATE as time has progressed.

    For all we know the object administering the lethal blow to Maria’s head could have something in the garage that was stationary like the washing machine, or other. Anything is possible and at this point all we’re doing is speculating without any verified facts.

    Perhaps when more documants are released regarding what they found in the home and took in for evidence we will have more to go on.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 8:21 pm

  166. LAnVB,
    Not sure what you’re referring to as “woods” behind their house. There is a line of trees on the other side of the yard fence, but no “woods” per say.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 8:24 pm

  167. Sentry,
    That’s true! I can’t wait to get the Search Warrants so I can ‘comb’ through them for more details.

    Because I had never posted before, I just wanted to throw some thoughts and ideas out for the ‘Regulars’ to ponder.

    Only trying to help…

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:24 pm

  168. Sentry,
    There were some aerial shots of the backyard on the web somewhere. I saved some of them to my computer, so I will go back and look at them again, but it looked like a wooded area between their property line that the property behind them (which looks like a large commercial parking lot).

    I’ll look at photos and get back to you on it.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:27 pm

  169. Sentry,

    I do not live in Jacksonville and have never been there – I am only going on what I can find to the internet.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

  170. LAnVB.
    Thank you for your thoughts and information, they were appreciated.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 8:29 pm

  171. LAnVB,
    The area behind the Lauren yard is a Mobile Home Park.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 8:30 pm

  172. There is only a row of pines behind their fence, then there is a trailer park on the other side of those pines containing about 10 mobile homes.

    Comment by JB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:35 pm

  173. Sentry,

    I do have the aerial photo. I see the line of trees you are talking about. That is the same area I was talking about. Granted, it may not be “woods” per se, but I do believe that is where he hid Maria’s body until he had time to dig the hole in his backyard. There is no way that he had time to kill Maria, move her body, wipe up the blood in the livingroom and the garage AND dig a hole that large and bury her on Friday night – even if he worked at it most of the night. AND, even if Christina helped him, he had to take time to tell Christina about what happened, convince her to help him bury the body, get shovels, and dig. They would have been out there most of the night in the dark, I think the neighbors, or someone would have noticed that as very suspicious, don’t you?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:40 pm

  174. Turner’s response about Christina:
    During 2007, she was an activated reservist working at MEF Headquarters Group (MHG). Her activation orders were due to expire in January 2008. In October 2007, she voluntarily submitted an application to return to the active component of the Marine Corps. Similar to other Reserve Marines, LCpl Laurean was recruited by a prior service recruiter who had a requirement to recruit Marines to meet existing personnel requirements of the Marine Corps as part of increasing the size of the Marine Corps to 202,000. LCpl Laurean’s request was approved and she formally joined the active component on January 4, 2008. She was originally assigned to Recruiting Station, Raleigh, NC. When her package was approved, she was transferred and assigned to Headquarters Group, II Marine Expeditionary Force as a personnel clerk.

    Comment by JB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:41 pm

  175. JB,

    I can’t tell from the aerial photo, but the fence appears to be a six foot wooden privacy fence. Is it?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:42 pm

  176. Yes, it is a 6 ft. fence. Untreated Cypress wood. I have the exact same fence around my property and the sun has ruined it. I burned several panels that I replaced last summer and it went up in flames and burned really fast.

    Comment by JB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:47 pm

  177. About why Christina we back into USMC full-time…

    Maybe she knew that CL was in love with Maria, or maybe she just realized that their marriage was on shakey ground, so she knew that if they divorced, she would need to have full-time employment to support herself and Abrianna and she would also need the medical benefits that the USMC provides for enlisted.

    She HAD to know that CL either raped Maria or at least had an affair with her. From what I have heard, the affair between CL and Maria was ‘common knowledge’ within the immediate area that they worked in.

    Maybe she (Christina) was preparing herself for the inevitable divorce that was approaching her. If it turned out that CL was the father of Maria’s baby, which was about to be proven, whether he raped Maria or just had sex with her, once the baby was born and DNA tests were done, Christina was still going to be faced with a BIG decision about her marriage.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:51 pm

  178. JB,

    So then, my theory is still that CL ‘hid’ Maria’s body behind that fence, under those trees on Friday night, then retrieved her on Saturday morning to bury her in the backyard.

    How close is the first trailer in that trailer park to those trees?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:54 pm

  179. I feel bad for even saying it but I think Christina probably hated Maria. I heard the DA on the news after Laurean was captured. He said Christina was struggling with the fact that her husband was unfaithful and that she still loved him. What woman is still concerned about her husband being unfaithful RATHER than the fact that Maria and her child were murdered, let alone in her own home?

    Comment by JB — April 26, 2008 @ 8:57 pm

  180. LAnVB the fence is rather close to the first trailer (probably within -50 feet). Also at the time that fence went completely around Laurean’s house, he would have to put her in a vehicle or trespassed onto his neighbors property to get back there. I was out that way in Jan and those trees are not that big and just a single line. The bottom limbs do not even touch the ground. No back gate from their back yard, just the one up front next to the garage area.

    Comment by LT — April 26, 2008 @ 8:59 pm

  181. JB,

    The kind of woman with very low self-esteem! Which looks like the kind of women that CL preyed on. Maria’s mother said that Maria had some self-esteem issues and I’m sure Christina does too!

    If you have seen any of the pictures of Christina, it appears that she is (or was) overweight and the rumors are that CL married her because she was pregnant. Not exactly the best foundation to build a marriage on!

    I’m sure she did hate Maria. But the reason for that is probably because of the lies that CL told her! Even if CL didn’t rape Maria, it takes two people to conceive a baby. I think that when Christina went back into the USMC full-time that she started hearing the rumors about the affair between CL and Maria that were wide spread around the base, and she KNEW that CL had lied to her and that he was unfaithful.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 9:03 pm

  182. LT,

    So what “woods” do you think he was referring to? Did he put her in the back of his truck and drive her to a wooded area in the neighborhood? I just do not believe that he buried Maria on Friday night. There just wasn’t enough time for him to bury her that night, even IF someone helped him.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 9:07 pm

  183. Didn’t the neighbor at 101 Meadow Trail say that CL borrowed his shovel that weekend to bury Maria with? I think LE took that shovel for evidence.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 9:10 pm

  184. LAnVB,
    “Then, on Saturday while Christina was at work, he dug the hole in his backyard and retrieved Maria from the wooded area and buried her in the backyard.”

    How would he do this all in broad daylight?

    LAnVB
    “They would have been out there most of the night in the dark, I think the neighbors, or someone would have noticed that as very suspicious, don’t you?”

    If they were sleeping they wouldn’t know what was going on next door during the night. It sure would have been better than retrieving and burying her in the daytime, don’t you think?

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 9:13 pm

  185. Since it was mentioned that Maria’s car could have been stored at the Salvage yard on North Bryan, that is within walking distance of Cesar’s house. I wondered if he put her body in the car and left it at the Salvage yard Friday night since the neighbor claimed he saw Maria’s car at the house that weekend. But if he had put her in the trunk, etc., it looks like LE would have had blood evidence when they found the car and knew something terrible had happened.
    Cesar told Christina he went with Maria to the bus station. Since Maria asked if she could leave the car at the bus station that night, I wondered if Cesar was in his truck at the Checkers or bread store and she had planned on leaving the bus station with him?

    Comment by JB — April 26, 2008 @ 9:21 pm

  186. when did she ask if she could leave her car at the bus station?

    Comment by sr — April 26, 2008 @ 9:26 pm

  187. LAnVB,

    “The kind of woman with very low self-esteem! Which looks like the kind of women that CL preyed on. Maria’s mother said that Maria had some self-esteem issues and I’m sure Christina does too!”

    We really have no verification or proof that Laurean preyed on any woman. I highly doubt at 18 he was the one that had any power. I think Christina nabbed her a young stud who had much promise in the Corps. She was 4 years older than him so I don’t see him the man who knew all the moves but may have been been enamored by an older woman being attracted to him.

    I thought Maria’s family said that Maria was strong and couldn’t be bullied? That doesn’t sound like someone with self esteem issues. I think Maria’s issues ran much deeper than that.

    There has been no mention that he preyed on any other woman and this may have been the first time he had cheated on Christina. I think that is a likely probability for it to happen when the marriage is mostly done as an obligation..instead of a want to…imo.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 9:28 pm

  188. JB,

    But didn’t Mr. Hames say he saw her drive away?

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 9:30 pm

  189. I believe most everyone here is posting sincere, intelligent thoughts and messages but with a case like this that has so many twists and turns, it’s easy to loose focus of the basic facts of the case.

    Here’s a refresher from information available at jdnews.com or the Onslow County Register of Deeds:

    Maria Francis Lauderbach
    Born November 17, 1987

    Cesar Armando Laurean
    Born on November 13, 1986
    Married……

    Christina Sue Smith
    Born on July 21, 1983

    Wedding occurred in Jacksonville, NC on August 12, 2005

    They have a daughter named Abrianna….

    Christina has a sister named Amber….

    Amber Louis Smith was born on August 6, 1986
    She married….

    Tyler James Smith who was born on October 5, 1984

    Their marriage occurred in Jacksonville, NC on March 21, 2007.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 9:32 pm

  190. I’ve read two different versions of borrowing the shovel from the neighbors. The wife said in one article that Cesar borrowed it from her, and then the neighbor husband said it was borrowed from him around the 16th which is the same day Ceasar was at Lowes.

    I think someone helped Cesar dig the Fire Pit prior to to Maria’s death.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 9:32 pm

  191. i think he married christina because she was pregnant and then met Maria and fell in love with her.

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 9:33 pm

  192. Drake,

    They have a six foot privacy fence around their yard and he was “digging the area for a garden” is what he told the neighbors when he borrowed the shovel. Maria’s body was wrapped in a comforter, so it’s not like he had a body just laying out in his yard while he was digging the “garden”. Plus, he did not have his own shovel on Friday night, so he didn’t have anything to dig the hole with on Friday night. If he retrieved Maria’s body in the morning, right after Christina left for work (which should have been between 6:30 a.m. and 7:30 a.m.), there probably weren’t many people outside at that time on a Saturday morning. He only had to ‘hide’ the body until early Saturday morning. He could have also hid the body in the shed in their backyard while he dug the hole. The shed appeared to be fairly empty in the LE pictures.

    The houses beside him look fairly close to each other and I think the bedrooms in those houses are predominantly in the rear of the house. I think that if my neighbors were digging a hole that size in the middle of the night, I would hear something. He could have only buried her on Friday night if someone helped him AND he would have been digging during the time that Christina was at home. SO, it’s hard for me to believe that if two people are digging a hole that large, they would be talking to each other while digging AND would probably be going in and out of the house to get something to drink (digging a hole that large is alot of hard labor).

    Even if no one heard them, keep in mind that CL (or someone close to him) had just KILLED a woman. People who commit crimes like that, especially if it is their ‘first kill’ (which I will assume it was), will almost always feel paranoid immediately following the crime. I think that because of his paranoia, CL just wanted to ‘get rid of the body’ until he had some time to ‘think of a better plan’. He certainly didn’t leave Maria’s body in the garage Friday night for the fear that Christina may find it. LE said that they do not believe that Christina knew about Maria’s death until after the fact.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 9:36 pm

  193. de, I agree. He was really only a kid in a grown up world when he was 18. He matured some and he fell in love with Maria and I have a feeling Christina deep down knew it all along.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 9:37 pm

  194. Thanks for posting the facts. I wasn’t sure if giving all of that info on a blog is considered “in bad taste”, so since this is my first time posting, I didn’t want to “break the rules” on my first time.

    I have some more facts if you would like me to post them. I don’t know how much info everyone wants and I don’t want to waste everyone’s time (and Lindell’s space) by posting ‘info’ instead of ‘ideas’.

    Let me know if I should post what I have.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 9:45 pm

  195. If Cesar and Christina married in August 12, 2005, there were 28 months until December 2007. The little girl. Abrianna Sue, was 18 months old in January, so how could she have been on the way when the two CL’s got married? Am I missing something here or am I having another “mental dwarf” day??!

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 9:45 pm

  196. LAnVB,

    You are looking at it with the perspective that Christina positively didn’t know a thing. I have not ruled Christina’s knowledge or participation out. She may have been aware and he told her it happened and he didn’t mean for it to and she didn’t want to see him go to prison because I do think to this day she still loves him no matter what he may or may not have done.

    I do believe the body was hidden some place. I just do not believe it was hidden out in the tree line under the comforter. And if he were to place it in an possible exposed area like outside somewhere then I agree, paranoia would be bouncing off the wall. It was securely hidden away where he knew no one outside of his home could know about it imo.

    If Christina knew of this and told no one then he had all the time in the world to do whatever he had to do. If she knew it had happened the car could have been placed inside the garage and Maria’s body could have laid in the garage wrapped up in the comforter until he could bury her.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 9:50 pm

  197. lanvb, yes we want to here the facts. thats what we have been trying to find out. You can post want you want but if you want to argue you have to go to the shark tank.lol not saying you want to argue but some ppl do so they have their own space.

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 9:51 pm

  198. Justice4all:
    I don’t think you’re mistaken: Cesar and Christina WERE married on August 12, 2005.

    At the time this story became front page news (January 2008), the Laurean’s were reporterd as having an eighteen-month old daughter named Abrianna.

    Her birth certificate is available online at the OCRofD with the day and month redacted. Her birth year is 2006 under file number 2006-00001685

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 9:58 pm

  199. Justice4,

    “If Cesar and Christina married in August 12, 2005, there were 28 months until December 2007. The little girl. Abrianna Sue, was 18 months old in January, so how could she have been on the way when the two CL’s got married? Am I missing something here or am I having another “mental dwarf” day??!”

    What we really are missing is Abrianna Sue’s actual birthdate, I guess.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 9:58 pm

  200. de,

    I certainly DO NOT want to argue. I only wanted to provide some helpful info and some theories about the case that I had not seen anyone talk about. I didn’t expect anyone to respond directly to me, I thought everyone would just ponder the theories and expand on them or dismiss them as not possible. That’s all! Sorry if it appears that I want to argue, I am only trying to respond to the questions that are asked of me about my theories.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 9:59 pm

  201. LAnVB:
    Post away. Everyone here loves the new info. and Lindell loves the traffic to his blog!

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 10:00 pm

  202. I did not say you wanted to argue, I said there were ppl on here that do and that is why the shark tank was started. I am very sorry if thats how it came across.

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 10:04 pm

  203. To many who’ve followed the case it’s not new info., but interesting just the same to read someone’s theory.

    Maybe Lindell should start a “Theories” thread and see how close someone got to what actually happened.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 10:06 pm

  204. I enjoy everyone’s opinions and think most of them are pretty darn enlightening and thought provoking. Well…except in the Boxing Ring and Mud Wrestling ones……LOL

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 10:07 pm

  205. Just an aside and a quick observation about this site Lindell has created and to which we have all contributed. This site is awesome and the intelligent posts that people are making is truely outstanding.

    I think it is amazing how captivating this case has always been and how its interest has only grown with each passing week.

    But what I find extremely fascinating is the numbers that post on this thread compared to the Hillary Clinton thread. This thread which began shortly before 8 pm last evening has garnered 201 posts to the Clinton thread that was posted on the same day but much earlier has seen 6 people leave messages. Six posts left commenting on an event headlined by an individual who has a one-in-three-shot of becoming the leader of the free world.

    That’s astounding!

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 10:10 pm

  206. Drake,

    I don’t absolultely believe that the body was hid “in the woods” either.

    I was just trying to theorize on what CL told Christina according the what LE has said about her involvement.

    Let me say now that, I BELIEVE THAT CHRISTINA LAUREAN IS UP TO HER EYEBALLS IN THIS MURDER. I am certainly not trying to make it look like she didn’t know about it or that she wasn’t somehow involved.

    I am only throwing out some theories and also include the information that LE has provided the public as another idea to expand on. As someone said earlier, we are all just speculating on things with very little proof of anything. I’m just trying to get ‘expanding speculation’ on some thoughts that I have had about the case over the past few months.

    Thanks for your feedback.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 10:10 pm

  207. Her birth certificate is available online at the OCRofD with the day and month redacted. Her birth year is 2006 under file number 2006-00001685

    Mike, are you just redacting it here or is the month and day redacted on the actual file number.

    And if so, why would that be done? I thought that were all public records?

    Thanks.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 10:11 pm

  208. Drake,
    Yes, I remember that interview Mr Hames gave, He said she asked if she could leave the car there overnight, he told her no and then she drove off. I just wondered if Cesar was somewhere close by in his truck.

    Comment by JB — April 26, 2008 @ 10:11 pm

  209. Mike,

    That’s because EVERYONE else is talking about Clinton (especially the news). I think alot of people are sick of hearing about Hilary and Obama.

    Now, should one of them murder someone – I guarantee you that there would be alot more posts on her blog! Kidding!

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 10:13 pm

  210. Sentry:

    I think if someone had the time we could compile every possible theory about this case into one easy-to-read thread by using the comments left here on this blog

    I think Lindell was trying to prepare us for that eventually scenario when the Laurean / Lauderbach SW’s become availalbe to the public and are posted on jdnews.com. I believe he used some past criminal cases as an example when he outlined how LEO typically have gone on the record with many theories to explain what happened in a crime and until all the evidence is processed and evaluated do they whittle down the possibilities to the final conclusion.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 10:17 pm

  211. Drake,

    I THINK that if anyone here has a membership to Ancestry.com, you can get the month and day of her birth from that site. I’m not positive about that, but I know that when I was doing my genealogy and had a membership to ancestry, that NC birth records are all public record. I’m not sure why it is not provided on the Onslow County website.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 10:18 pm

  212. Drake:
    The copy I have is redacted and I got that copy online. I think if one goes in person and asks for that record, the day, month and year should appear

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 10:19 pm

  213. Drake Garrett,
    Yes, we are missing Abrianna Sue’s actual birth-date. The Public records only indicate **/**/2006.

    Gone are the “shotgun weddings” of yesteryear and many couples today have children and never marry, or do so after the birth of a child.

    Whether or not Christina, who is 3 years and 4 months older than Cesar was pregnant when they married is only important to those who think it’s a big deal ;)

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 10:21 pm

  214. Thank you Mike McHugh. I see what you mean. 18 months old in January of 2008 means born in July of 2006. Looks like plenty of time for one little baby. Well, what I think I would like to say here is this: It really doesn’t matter WHY someone marries, it could be “mail order bride” “helpless bachelor needs chief cook and bottle washer” or “penniless waif needs mealticket” any one of a number of things “fisherman needs strong wife who owns boat, please send picture of boat!” What really matters is WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU’VE DONE IT. In order words, the quality of the committment to a marriage. By the way, really marriage is more than just a contract between consenting parties, it is the building block of our society and the fabric of the nation. I just can’t think anybody would think it is okay for a married person to cast his/her eyes about for someone else. Regardless of all considerations (please, don’t throw eggs at me, it is so wasteful) Cesar owed his wife his complete and utter faithfulness and loyalty and she owed him the same. Christina has shown great unconditional love for Cesar. I don’t know about whether she planned to stay with him, or what, but Cesar did deceive Maria if he failed to tell her he was married, and he deceived Christina, too. She has a right to her husband’s attentions and loyalty, that is a given for marriage. Regardless of a religious or civil marriage it is presupposed to be a relationship between the two parties and exclusive of all other. I know I may come across as a hoplessly old fashioned soapboxer, but this nation has been made great by just such old soapboxers who came here for all points of the compass and taught their children the golden rule. I am not sure we can build relationships of trust with anyone if we fail to do it in our families. Families and spouses are not perfect, either, so sometimes things do go wrong but we probably need to have an “ideal” somewhere.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 10:23 pm

  215. JB, I have always wondered when Cesar said what he did…did he call it that because he helped her buy the bus ticket by giving her the cash? I know they have obtained his bank records so it will be interesting to see if he made any withdrawals that day and for how much.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 10:23 pm

  216. LanVB, I love your ideas, I am getting ready to wipe off the egg from my face.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 10:24 pm

  217. Drake Garrett,
    “Yes, we are missing Abrianna Sue’s actual birth-date. The Public records only indicate **/**/2006.

    Gone are the “shotgun weddings” of yesteryear and many couples today have children and never marry, or do so after the birth of a child.

    Whether or not Christina, who is 3 years and 4 months older than Cesar was pregnant when they married is only important to those who think it’s a big deal”

    I don’t think it is a big deal but I certainly don’t understand why a part of a birth record has redactions of month and day. I have had to pull many in my hometown and all information is always available. I have never heard of one that has redactions. That’s all.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 26, 2008 @ 10:31 pm

  218. After we make our respective wifes breakfast tomorrow morning and say our Sunday prayers, Lindell and I are off on another intracounty sojourn.

    If things pan out like we think they might, we’ll have some exciting NEW news to bring to you for your insightful inspection and discerning dissection.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 10:38 pm

  219. Drake:

    It might be a “county thing’…after all, the County’s jingle for their tourism ad is, “…..On–ly…In…..Ons–low…”

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 10:40 pm

  220. Mike,

    We can’t wait! What time should we all plan to be ready to blog?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 10:42 pm

  221. JB, Mr. Hames told Maria that she could leave her car parked at the bus station.

    In an interview with WNCT’s Phillip Jones on 1/11/08, Roshaun Hames says this: “There’s nothing to it, really,” Hames said. “She came in, she bought the ticket, and she asked me if she could leave her car out there. That’s pretty much it.”

    This was the interview in which Mr. Hames wore his stylish yellow jacket.

    Comment by Sandy — April 26, 2008 @ 10:48 pm

  222. Thanks, Sandy. I did not see that interview, the one I saw was a reporter talking with a video of Hames in the background.

    Comment by JB — April 26, 2008 @ 10:51 pm

  223. Drake:

    Not to change the subject but…..
    What’s your two cents on the NFL draft and Denver taking Ryan Clady?

    I hope the ‘skins can make something of Devin Thomas from MSU.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 10:52 pm

  224. Mike,
    You say “another intracounty sojourn”, you big tease!

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 10:54 pm

  225. Sandy,
    I also saw the interview with Mr. Hames, and you’re right.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 10:54 pm

  226. Mike give us alittle hint!

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 10:55 pm

  227. Drake, the birth dates are only redacted online. You can see the actual dates in the record’s room.

    I have no idea why they redact them only online, I’ll have to ask Ms. Maryland that the next time I’m there.

    Comment by Sandy — April 26, 2008 @ 10:56 pm

  228. Can someone tell me why some bloggers, like ‘de’ and ‘sr’, show up in blue letters instead of black? Just for my FYI. Thanks!

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 10:59 pm

  229. Does anyone here have an Ancestry.com membership?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:00 pm

  230. I was wondering that too

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 11:01 pm

  231. LAnVB:

    If Lindell and I don’t “get thrown under the bus” (hint, hint) and survive the morning from possibly getting our noses busted for being mistaken for Jehovas Witnesses, (we might be doing some door knocking) we should be
    back online with our information by mid-afternoon though we may have to detour and duck into Hooters to continue our monitoring of the staff and get an update on the Aarons 499 Sprint Cup race from Talladega!

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

  232. Sandy,
    Maybe they want people to purchase them instead of printing them out online???

    My County doesn’t offer any free info. like Onslow does, with the exception of Propery Records.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

  233. I have Ancestry, and i looked it up, it does not give info later than 2000. I did a full (all databases) search after the birth records, and the full database showed Cesar A Laurean at 103 Meadow Trail. No details of the household members.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 11:03 pm

  234. Sentry, that is the most likely reason the birthdates are redacted online.

    They want to make sure they collect the $10 per copy fee.

    Comment by Sandy — April 26, 2008 @ 11:06 pm

  235. When I went to OC records the website said “for a fee” people could have the info redacted. I think it must be at the request of the individual.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 11:07 pm

  236. Sentry and Sandy,

    I think the reason for not providing actual dates for babies online may be because providing that info online would make it easier for the ‘crazies’ who try to steal babies to have the info, whereas, if someone has to go to the courthouse to get the info, there will be more a ‘record’ of someone requesting that info. Just a theory…

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:07 pm

  237. LAnVB asked:
    “Can someone tell me why some bloggers, like ‘de’ and ’sr’, show up in blue letters instead of black?”
    Answer:
    Because they put some link in the Website box and when you click on their name in BLUE it’s supposed to direct you there.

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 11:07 pm

  238. sentry how do I take it off? im computer stupid, i dont know how i did it.

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 11:12 pm

  239. Thanks Justice!

    The ones I found for my genealogy were born before 2000.

    Just another idea for you… Ancestry.com is a GREAT investigative tool! If you have time, once I post the names and addresses for everyone I have info on, you can probably find out alot more info about the people.

    I read on a blog somewhere (probably here) that there is a possibility that Maria’s birth parents (mother) is related to Mary Lauterbach. I think that idea makes alot of sense because Maria looks alot like Mary. And, Mary’s full first name is Maria. Most parents do not give their daughter the same first name as the mother. They will usually give a Daughter the name of a sibling or other relative. If the parents DO name the Daughter after the mother, it is usually given as the middle name, not the of the child, not the first name.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:16 pm

  240. Sentry,

    Thanks! I thought it meant that they are blog moderators.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:17 pm

  241. here ’tis;

    The Identity Theft Protection Act of 2005 states that any person who has private information in the records available online from the Register of Deeds office has the right to request at no charge that the information be redacted only from documents available online. The request form must specify:
    · The book and page number of the document containing the personal information
    · The location in the document of the personal information to be redacted (GS 132-1.10(g)).

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 11:18 pm

  242. Mike

    I’ll be here waiting!

    Be sure to order some wings at Hooters so as to not ‘Blow your Cover’! We wouldn’t want anyone to think that you and Lindell were there for any other reason than for ‘research purposes’!

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:20 pm

  243. de,
    When you go to post, is there anything posted under your email addy listed in the Website box? IF SO, CLEAR IT!

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 11:20 pm

  244. Ok thanks i will try it

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 11:22 pm

  245. LAnVB: most likely that’s not a theory but the fact. Anytime you want a “certified” or true copy, you have to break out the ID and your wallet.

    Now if you just walk in and go to the records room just to have a look see, you don’t have to show any ID.

    Anytime I’ve ever been in the records room, there has always been several people in the room doing record searches.

    Comment by Sandy — April 26, 2008 @ 11:22 pm

  246. Good job Justice!

    Where do you find this stuff so fast?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:22 pm

  247. I was wrong about the fee, it is “at no charge” But it is only redacted from the online stuff. I think it might be to do with babysnatchers or something. It says identity theft protection act of 2005, though.
    LanVB, I use Ancestry a lot, and I also use some other sites. Ancestry, of course, charges for a membership. Mainly the censuses are what I need, and sometimes the birth, marriage, and death info, too.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 11:23 pm

  248. Absolutely, LAnVB: Good advice.
    The last THING that I want BLOWN at Hooters is my cover!

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 26, 2008 @ 11:24 pm

  249. de – it worked! You are no longer blue!

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:24 pm

  250. Thank you very much. O dont like to stand out in the crowd. LOL

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 11:26 pm

  251. Very cute Mike! Hope your wife isn’t a blogger!

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:26 pm

  252. LAnVB I relly am sorry if you thought I was saying you wanted to argue. Thats not what I meant. We are very interested in your onfo and comments.

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 11:28 pm

  253. LAnVB, about the names. In times past people would call children after relatives, but also, a mother and daughter could easily have the same names. It has been quite cofusing when dealing with census errors. I stand in great awe of the census takers of yesteryear.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 11:28 pm

  254. justice

    wasn’t that mostly practiced a long time ago? i didn’t think it was all that common in recent years.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:32 pm

  255. Not that it really matters who Maria’s biological parents are. just thought it might be interesting to know if they are related to Mary, given the news reports on what Mary said about Maria’s biological father.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:35 pm

  256. What did she say about her father?

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 11:36 pm

  257. LAnVB, I do a great deal of genealogy, too. We call it “family history” now because some people think genealogy is to do with genetic mutations or cloning, or worse, some nameless health condition. I was going to say, there is a very good site called Familysearch.org and it is FREE. You could always give it a try. In the future I expect to see Familysearch have just about all the info that is on ancestry. About getting info. I just went to Onslow county register of deeds, as Mike McHugh originally directed me when I pointed out that there was enough time for Abrianna Sue to be 18 months old in Jan or 2008.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 11:36 pm

  258. Sandy,
    By your posts I take it that you’re a local in Onslow County.

    I wish you could ride along with Mike and Lindell and remind them of all the things we want them to find out for us in case they get too full at Hooter’s and come home and take a nap and forget to post :)

    Comment by Sentry — April 26, 2008 @ 11:37 pm

  259. Not here in U.S.A. LAnVB, but my roots come from afar.

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 11:39 pm

  260. LAnVB, stuff like social security register of deaths, etc would be fine on ancestry but the latest us Census is 1930 and I don’t know how well they are currently doing for the births and marriages. I suppose they have people digitizing records night and day. A good place to find out where people are is peoplefinders (remember the “s” because there is also a peoplefinder) but you have to pay of course for the information. Background checks and so forth from peoplefinders. You said you used to be in LE, that must be why you can find out things. That old sherlock holmes touch!!

    Comment by justice4all — April 26, 2008 @ 11:46 pm

  261. Sentry, yes I am indeed a local.

    Once the race starts tomorrow, I won’t be doing anything but watching and hoping Dale Jr. wins! ;)

    Comment by Sandy — April 26, 2008 @ 11:46 pm

  262. de

    Mary said in her email to the USMC (it was 3 pages long – not made public) that Maria’s biological father was Bipolar. It was reported everywhere that she said Maria was Bipolar. She (Mary) says that the information was misunderstood and that she was talking about Maria’s biological father, not Maria, being Bipolar.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 26, 2008 @ 11:55 pm

  263. Thanks. did she say who he was?

    Comment by de — April 26, 2008 @ 11:57 pm

  264. justice

    Thanks for the info! I will certainly check out those sites and report back any additional findings.

    I will also try to post the info I have on the people surrounding the Laureans and the Emricks. It is a lot of info, so I will probably post it in several posts.

    LINDELL-
    Maybe you could start a blog (or whatever you call it), where people can post INFORMATION ONLY – NO DISCUSSIONS – ONLY INFO.
    That way we would all be able to go directly to that area to gather info and if someone posts blatent mis-information, you (or someone) can always delete the post. What do you think?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 27, 2008 @ 12:04 am

  265. de

    No, that seems to be the BIG secret!

    Comment by LAnVB — April 27, 2008 @ 12:04 am

  266. de-

    some adoptions are not ‘closed’, but I don’t know how to find out if Maria’s adoption was ‘sealed’ or ‘closed’. I know that she was born in Florida. The state of Florida makes a lot information public, but I have never tried to find info on adoptions. I will look into that this week and report back if I find out any useful info.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 27, 2008 @ 12:07 am

  267. LAnVB:

    Some of what you ask Lindell to do in the above post can be found at jdnews.com.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 27, 2008 @ 12:08 am

  268. Lindell;

    Is it true that the military has not charged CL with anything? If they do not, can the state of NC go ahead with extradition? Is it possible that CL could be returned to the US then the military could charge him after he is returned? If so, can they they put the death penalty in play at that time?

    If Mexico will not extradite CL without the military filing charges, and they do actually file charges, who tries him first, the military or the state of NC?

    Is there any way that the military can make a trile by the state of NC not happen?

    Comment by Dreamer — April 27, 2008 @ 12:10 am

  269. Sandy,
    Earnhardt Jr. sounds good to me!

    Comment by Sentry — April 27, 2008 @ 12:10 am

  270. LAnVB cant wait to read your info. Ive been watching this from the start and im very curious abouy everything. I live here but im computer stupid as i stated earlier and dont know where to go to find anything and if I do I cant pull it up. So thanks to you and the others I can stay informed.

    Comment by de — April 27, 2008 @ 12:14 am

  271. Mike

    I’m not talking about the documents that have been released. I’m talking about information that people have found during their own personal investigating. It looks like there are several ‘inquiring minds’ here that are doing some of their own investigating on this case (I know I have).

    Is that type of info somewhere on jdnews.com and I just haven’t found it yet?

    I don’t live in or anywhere close to Jacksonville, NC. I just thought if there is somewhere to post misc FACTS (mostly about the people involved), that the bloggers who do live in and around your area might be able to expand on the info provided.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 27, 2008 @ 12:18 am

  272. de

    I will provide what info I have. I’m not sure if the info will be useful to the bloggers, but I can tell you that I have at least found some things to be interesting and some things that I think may be more than ‘just a coincidence’.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 27, 2008 @ 12:21 am

  273. Mike

    Please don’t think that I am trying to tell you or Lindell how to manage this site. I certainly am NOT trying to do that. I believe that between the two of you, things are certainly being covered wonderfully. I just thought it might be an idea to consider in order to keep the bloggers from having to go through all of the previous blogs to find info and put it all together.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 27, 2008 @ 12:24 am

  274. LAnVB,
    Google Cesar Laurean or Maria Lauterbach and it will take you to many Forums where information has been posted, WITH LINKS……………good luck!

    Comment by Sentry — April 27, 2008 @ 12:25 am

  275. You better make sure you post things that you think as “IMO – In My Opinion.” There are laws about slander and posting photos and personal information. I’m not sure if posting IMO actually covers everything and anything you say about someone. There are other sluething sites and they have warnings about postings.

    Comment by Dreamer — April 27, 2008 @ 12:28 am

  276. Dreamer,
    Most of us here just want to hear the local news from those working on the case.

    I’m personally not interested in doing any Sleuthing here, I enjoy hearing directly from the Onslow authorities and from Mike and Lindell from JDNews.

    Comment by Sentry — April 27, 2008 @ 12:32 am

  277. I agree. I was just warning those who were talking about posting all that info.

    Comment by Dreamer — April 27, 2008 @ 12:34 am

  278. Good Grief. Slander is so hard to prove. Esp on the internet. Defamation is limited in NC b/c it expires so quickly IMO.

    LK tolerating real life names and personal information is another story. His shark tank entry seemed to say it would not be tolerated. I am surprised at what I read here. Just saying

    Comment by Anonymous — April 27, 2008 @ 1:08 am

  279. With all that being said…

    Maybe I will wait to get Lindell’s opinion on whether I should post names and addresses. However, the names and addresses that I have are mostly found on public documents that I have obtained on the internet. I don’t think any of the info is anything that other people couldn’t find if they look hard enough. I am just trying to make the info easier to find.

    LINDELL -
    What is your opinion?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 27, 2008 @ 1:21 am

  280. I just found something that I wanted to share, just in case someone else hasn’t picked it up yet.

    If you look at the docs on jdnews and use the 2 email addresses listed on the most recent search warrants to search on myspace, Christina’s does not have a listing, but the one (animal_batista_diego@yahoo.com) comes up as a listing with a pic that I DO NOT THINK IS LAUREAN…but, IIRC, there was mention of a cousin named Armando (or family member) and he had used Armando as an alias to get the bus ticket.

    This guy is listed as 20 yo from San Marcos, Texas. I believe that Laurean was communicating with wifey through this guy…hence, maybe someone that was further helping him in some way (possibly provided his ID so CL could get on the bus safely!!). The caption is in spanish and it was noted that his spanish was more spanglish, but the caption was correctly written in spanish.

    Animal Batista Diego literally translates to animal Batista=Cuban dictator in 1930′s and diego is a derivative of Saint. Don’t know if that is of any importance, but will check with Mexican friend tomorrow and see if it is slang for something.

    Also, on Dan Durham’s myspace, ML’s sister, Annie, has left several comments to the effect of “I miss you” “I miss talking to you everyday”. It was my understanding that he called her and the mother when she disappeared. I am pondering whether or not DD and AL were dating and ML hooked them up, hence the reason she would be living in his house. He seemed close to the family being at the funeral with the family, etc. Maria was not friended on his myspace account, which I would think is weird if they had a relationship as has been thrown as far as the baby goes.

    The sister’s myspace page has the caption “RIP my sis Maria who was in love with a dream”…was that dream that she and CL were going to run away to Texas or Mexico and live happily ever after? I’m convinced that the rape allegation was made to the chain of command with no intentions of pressing charges and that it was to cover her own butt with the MC because he lied to her and she knew that there would be problems if they got caught. Seeing as how there was no force used (which would define rape), I am thinking that possibly the MC is viewing it as a sexual assault because he was married. I know there is a separate charge for adultery. Can anyone enlighten me???

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 4:29 am

  281. Sentry
    Maria died of blunt force trauma to the head. Someone turned over a piece of evidence that could have been the murder weapon that caused those fatal injuries. I am pretty sure it wasn’t a washing machine. It also wasn’t something handy around the garage that the Laureans owned. My understanding is that item was ‘borrowed and returned” Most people have thier own hammers in the house. It’s a standard tool. Most people don’t normally have a crowbar. It looks like the crowbar was borrowed before the murder in order for their to be an evidence on it. That means he planned on tearing down the fence before or planned some home project with it. Most hammers don’t have the leverage to pull out rusted nails from a fence.
    The other possibility is a tire iron used to remove lug nuts to change a car/truck tire. those are standard in all vehicles but I don’t see someone going to their trunk in the middle of a struggle and retrieving it to use. It is not a handy tool.

    Something else I thought of..why would Cesar start all these projects if he was planning on running off with Maria?
    Maybe that was what the argument was about, when she went to his house she saw he has started painting the livingroom and that is when she realized she was duped by him.I wouldn’t be suprised if she kicked him in the balls for it.

    She had already withdrawn money,packed her bags, left a note for Durham and spent $198 on a bus ticket. I can see her getting pissed. Like I said earlier, THERE IS NO WAY I BELIEVE SHE WAS CAPABLE OF TAKING THIS 24 TRIP FROM HELL ALONE.

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 7:50 am

  282. On your way from the ATM to the bus station did you pass a WalMart or anywhere Maria could have stopped in and bought an article of baby clothing?
    Also, it is reported that Maria bought the bus ticket at 5:00 PM, so how could she have arrived at Cesar’s at 5:00 PM? Remember that it was Friday as well as a payday weekend. Even people not in the military would have been paid, so I would think that would generate even more traffic enroute to the bank, grocery, etc.
    It is probably impossible to get an accurate timeline based on events on THAT particular day as opposed to now.
    Thank you both Lindell and Milke for all of your efforts!

    Comment by Carolyn — April 27, 2008 @ 7:52 am

  283. I just think that if Maria was going to take this trip ALONE she would have told her mother. If she was to take the trip with Cesar, then she would keep the status quo with mom about her visit to jacksonville so she could disapear with him and prevent an upsetting argument .

    There seems to be some distrust between these two women. I think some of it stems from the fact that mom may have been too judgemental, unconditional of Maria. Her mother didn’t support the baby either. Very sad for Maria.I think her mother felt this way about her granchild who she THOUGHT was a product of rape and rejected him. I really don’t think I should say how I feel about that.

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 7:59 am

  284. Carolyn:
    The Piney Green Shopping Center where the ATM is located has many retail establishments including a K-Mart and a Dollar Store.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 27, 2008 @ 8:02 am

  285. The baby clothes in the bag could have been a gift from one of her coworkers she recived on friday. There is no evidence Maria bought them is there? Was their a receipt in the bag?

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 8:03 am

  286. LOL, Curious! No, I do not believe that anyone turned in a washing machine as evedence either! Thanks for a bit of amusement in a very sad case. It helps to lighten up sometimes.
    As for the evidence recovered in Cesar’s truck, you can see in an overhead shot of the truck that there is a kaki (sp) colored object in the truck bed right behind the driver’s side. I wonder if it is the rag/chamois that Cesar used to cover the ATM lens with. Looks like it could be. I doubt it is a paper bag.
    Also interesting is the bus schedule Curious Says posted. That bus does go through Shreveport, La. where he was spotted by passengers. It was said that he had a hoody on. I sure hope it was not the one Maria had on at the ATM. That would just be too gross.
    I really would like to know what was found in the cabin Cesar stayed in. I wonder if that will ever come out.
    I know I am all over the place with this post, but there does not seem to be catagories for some questions or wondering posts!
    I would be interested in any further information Mindy or LAnVB has! Share with us, please!

    Comment by Carolyn — April 27, 2008 @ 8:10 am

  287. Thank you, Mike!

    Comment by Carolyn — April 27, 2008 @ 8:11 am

  288. I think it is a possibility that Maria might have intended to stay at a local motel/hotel on the night of the 14th. Maybe that was not thought of until she left the bus station. I am wondering if the local motels were all full the night of the 14th, IF that is, as Cesar put in his note, Maria came back to the house saying her plan had fallen through.
    Maybe she had driven back to Durham’s and saw that he was home and would not go back there because he would have already found her note stating that she was leaving. Wasn’t it, according to Cesar, her second trip to his house?
    I am just thinking of the different references that have been made by Cesar.

    Comment by Carolyn — April 27, 2008 @ 8:29 am

  289. Would there have been a LOT of blood?You better believe it!

    Pregnant women have an extra amount of blood in their bodies.

    Mood swings as well “cesar said in the note she was acting ‘differently and irrational’

    They can make you go from feeling happy one minute to feeling like crying the next. You may be irrationally angry with your partner one day, then a coworker may inexplicably irritate you the next.

    Maria may have been ‘nesting’ her neighbor reported she was always washing her car

    Maria may also have been unsteady on her feet during the struggle

    Joint Mobility
    During pregnancy, your body produces a hormone known as relaxin, which is believed to help prepare the pubic area and the cervix for the birth. The relaxin loosens the ligaments in your body, making you less stable and more prone to injury.

    Maria may have been confused when giving statements to the MC about the rape

    Inability to Concentrate
    In the first trimester, fatigue and morning sickness can make many women feel worn out and mentally fuzzy. But even well-rested pregnant women may experience an inability to concentrate and periods of forgetfulness

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 8:44 am

  290. Carolyn
    I don’t believe Maria went there twice. When would she have found the time? She would have to have gone to Cesars then back to the ATM then the bus station then back to Cesars? I don’t belive she ever went there the first time for money.She had cash and it is odd she didnt just debit her ATM card for the bus fare. The only reason I can thik of as to why she was lugging cash around is because she didn’t want to be electronically traced.This fits into my theory that El Paso was a DECOY.THAT SHE WAS PLANNING ON GETTING OFF THE BUS SOMEWHERE BEFORE THERE.

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 8:55 am

  291. Curious, I think in Maria’s mind she thought if she paid cash for the ticket it couldn’t be tracked back to her.

    I do think she came there twice. She could have gone shortly after the call with her mother if it even happened on that day. I read on this blog somewhere that the call to her mother may have happened the day before.
    And that would make sense why Dan knew about it already.

    Just because she had $700 doesn’t mean she thought that would be enough so I do see her asking or him offering to buy her bus ticket. $195 alone would take a chunk out of the $700. I think a withdrawal was made from his own account that day around this same time general frame and LE have those records on hand.

    She could have left the note to DD earlier and before she went to the ATM machine and onto the bus station she could have gone to Laurean’s in between that time.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 27, 2008 @ 9:18 am

  292. curious, I was just referring to Cesar’s note and what he had stated in it.
    I really never was a fan of the thought that Maria went there twice, but if she did, it was his plan to blindside her with whatever the weapon it was that he killed her with when she came back. And I will never believe that she asked him for money. In fact, it was probably Cesar asking Maria for money. Now. If Cesar was to have to account for any money he spent to Christina, it could be that he did actually buy a bus ticket at some point himself. That would account to Christina for that amount. Maybe he really had been trying to get Maria to believe that the two of them would run away together.
    At any rate, Cesar and Christina’s bank records will reflect whether or not an amount of money was removed from their bank account that would either equal or exceed the amount of a bus ticket.
    Another question that has not been asked was IF Maria had bought the bus ticket for Cesar instead of herself, then he killed her when she brought it to her.
    I do not think that the bus ticket destination was a decoy.

    All I am stating are just big if’s and maybe’s.

    Comment by Carolyn — April 27, 2008 @ 9:23 am

  293. All I really care about is getting to the truth in Maria and Gabriel’s murder. I do not have to be right at all. I wonder if Cesar will tell the truth of his side of the story?
    I want everything to be done right in the extradition process as well as the trial.

    Comment by Carolyn — April 27, 2008 @ 9:31 am

  294. Gee, a married man unfaithful to his wife tell the truth? I will be bracing myself to fall out of my chair if he does!

    The reason I think Cesar wrote in the note ‘he helped her buy a bus ticket’ is because he had to come up with some story to tell Christinia as to WHY his lover was in HER home.Jeez, the bitching factor must have been off the charts.
    Cesar may have gotten a clue that wifey was sticking it to him and as he was reading online in the internet cafe,that is why he may have said ‘I loved her’ about Maria.To get Christina back. This whole thing is psuedo high school. I keep forgetting that some of the ppl ivolved are so young. That is a big factor in trying to understand their behaviour.

    Christina has not filed for divorce.Interesting.

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 10:06 am

  295. You know, curious, Christina is actually the oldest of the three, and I find her to be the most naive. She thinks LE would just buy her story because she ‘said so’.
    I am not going to pretend that I would not like to see her be charged with at least Obstruction. Also, she knew where a USMC Deserter was, and was communicating with him. I do not think she deserves to be in the USMC for that alone!
    No, Christina will probably not file for divorce until after Cesar is convicted. Then she will so she can go find a new husband to comfort her.

    Comment by Carolyn — April 27, 2008 @ 10:28 am

  296. Lindell and I are about ready to drop the green flag (a little Talladega jargon) on our trip around Jacksonville and parts of Onslow County and unlike boys making left turns in Alabama today, we’re running wide open WITHOUT a restrictor plate in search of the truth.

    Boogity, Boogity, Boogity, LINDELL, Let’s Go investigating!!!!

    Comment by Mike McHugh — April 27, 2008 @ 10:40 am

  297. have fun!

    Comment by de — April 27, 2008 @ 10:44 am

  298. Have fun guys and try not to end up in the pokey!

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 10:55 am

  299. LOL…….bring us back something interesting!!! Please!

    Comment by Carolyn — April 27, 2008 @ 11:05 am

  300. 1. Maria was packed up on fri and WAS NOT intending to return to Durhamns house,that way she wouldn’t have to explain to him where she was going with her bags . fri was the day since he would probably be home sat.
    2. Maria plan on what day she was originally to take the bus is unclear.Where was she going to sleep fri night?
    3. Maria was paying with cash to avoid MC tracing her steps
    4. Maria and Cesar discussed her plan other wise why would she tell him ‘her PLAN ‘fell through?
    5. Cesar skipped the christmas party for his unit
    6. Maria skipped the christmas party for her unit even though she told her mother she should make an appearance and that Cesar would be there.
    7. neither one planned to attend-Maria knew Cesar wouldn’t be there otherwise why go to his house?
    8. christina attended the party alone and did not go looking for her wandering hubby because maybe she knew of ‘the plan’ and wanted to be accounted for
    9. Mary was fed a bunch of malarky by Maria
    10 Maria knew christina was not at home and at the party-maybe she had a friend who was at the party calling her with tabs.
    11. Maria was upset she couldnt get on the bus on fri and that she would have to explain to Durham about the note.

    At some point Maria stopped answering her cell ph. I believe she was killed @ or shortly before 5:30pm. Durham returned home and that’s when he found her note. He would have called her cell IMMEDIATLY to ask WTF?she left suddenly and was 8 mo preg, he would have been VERY CONCERNED.

    SO, @5:30 pm fri dec 14 is time of death
    blunt force trauma is cause of death
    homicide is manner of death

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 11:16 am

  301. Great synopsis, curious but we don’t even know if she went directly back there from the bus station. He said she came back later in the evening. It is the true time of what “later in the eventing” actually means and that we do not know.

    Sutherland said the time line parameters are tight that they are having to work with for him to accomplish everything he would have had to do.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 27, 2008 @ 11:50 am

  302. Drats! I meant to say “later in the evening” not “eventing.”

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 27, 2008 @ 11:52 am

  303. The timeline as we know it is very tight if you want to believe this was done by one person Drake.

    I’m still mulling around the Saturday bus story and what she was thinking. It sure would help if we knew whether or not there was any kind of relationship left when those last days were coming together.

    Comment by Renee — April 27, 2008 @ 12:03 pm

  304. Carolyn,

    I don’t really have any further info that anyone else doesn’t already know. However, I can use what I have learned in law school and rationalize alot of this based on the techniques we learned about investigations, etc in crim law class.

    I think that ML was fully aware of what she had to do in order to be with CL. They were not going to take either of their own cars. They would need legitimate ID’s to get on a plane or train (due to them paying cash for tickets and his traveling under a different name later–I am assuming that someone provided an ID for him or they did not ask for one) I also believe that ML was a bit naive and just assumed that using her own name would be ok as they would have had a head start.

    This all leads me to believe that he was working in cahoots with the cousin in TX. Do I recall correctly that there was some Western Union activity between CL and wifey that LE was looking at? I feel that he may have had wifey believing that he was wiring money (or had her wiring money) in preparation for the impending (?) rape trial. At the same time, he was telling ML that they would leave together. I think they planned it for that day (and purchased her ticket that day) so it would go unnoticed and give them a head start.

    At this point, I fully believe that they had funds stashed with the cousin (who I truly believe is on that myspace page he was using) or they may have attempted to make transactions to the family that looked questionable to LE later on. I do not think these 2 were heading to Mexico with a combined total of a little over $1,000.00. I think this because he had family there that was accessible, they could have held the money for him, CL and ML could have gotten the family to meet them at one of the TX bus station to get the money and they could have used a car/another bus to get to Mexico. (I did some research and San Marcos, TX is between San Antonio and Austin–very accessible to the bus route by car!) Either way, with the West. Un. receipts, I believe that he had wifey going along with it for some time in preparation for the departure.

    Now, I have been thinking about the visit to the house. If they had a plan to meet up at the bus station and CL didn’t show up she would have been mad–her mother even described her as determined and head strong. If she had of expected the bus to be leaving that day, then found out it wasn’t, she may have gone to his house to retrieve money for a hotel. Either way, she had a reason to go there–angry or needing money.

    I can imagine that if she was brazen enough to park in the driveway (based on reports of the car being there that day by the neighbors) then she had been there before. I believe he also knew she was coming. She would have approached the front door because the back door was inside the back gate and the garage was likely closed to hide all that junk in it (front door easiest accessibility.)

    There may have been an altercation in the living room where he hit her (maybe a bloody lip or something–causing the blood on the wall in that room) then she probably would have run the only other way that she thought there was an exit–the garage. I am tending to believe that there was an altercation over him telling her that he would go LATER and she did not agree. She would have probably been really upset seeing as how she had already written the note, bought the ticket, and knew the damage was done. She probably did get hysterical and there were probably accusations passed (“I’ll stay here til your wife gets home!” or “I’ll scream rape!”) which would have thrown him into a fit of rage.

    My personal experience is inserted here–Latino mean have a reputation of cheating, abusing their wives, and being the macho one that makes the decisions. It is socially excepted in their culture (I married one BEFORE I found this out!!!)

    So, I see him flying off the handle in a fit of rage and killing her. I don’t think it was premeditated (thought up long in advance) but I do think that after the first blow he knew that he was going to be in some serious poop with his wife or with the MC so he made the split second decision to finish her off.

    This is where I am confused–he was telling people that his wife was pregnant. I think as an after thought, he may have tried to take the baby because he was going to need to explain that away but didn’t have the heart or know how to do it successfully so he inflicted the wounds to try to cover it up (very badly done, I might add). Then tried to burn the evidence away later, hence the reason only her abdomen was burned–if he really want to burn her up, he would have at least attempted to do a better job.

    Having to choose between the lesser of 2 evils–wife or MC–I think that he got Christina to help when she got home because he knew that no matter what, she would stick by him.

    I thoroughly believe that wife was involved and that they are allowing her enough rope to tie her own noose. I feel like that he feels jaded by her now (LE using the emails and calls to trace him–remember, LE is calling her a “cooperating witness” and to an untrained eye, that would mean she is willingly handing over evidence and he will tell the story in his own words and that they will impliment Christina as an accessory. I think LE has something up their sleeve and are playing word games here to throw many people off.

    MHOO

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 12:11 pm

  305. Clarification–paragraph 3–they were sending money for him to flee if there was a rape trial.

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 12:17 pm

  306. I still believe Maria went from the ATM to the bus station and on to Cesar’s. I still believe he killed her soon after her arrival there and after a fight. Since there was contact between them prior to her arrival, I think Cesar lured her there. Either that or she could have gone there to demand he pay some money for the child and to help her with her trip expenses.

    I know he did this alone. He cleaned up enough so Christina would not notice anything and over the next days continued to work on the clean up.

    I still wonder if it was just to late to get the bus on the 14th or if it was full. She may have demanded some money from Cesar for a motel room that night also. I believe she may have thought it was just as much his responsibility money wise because of the child and Cesar could pay his fair share.

    Comment by Lily — April 27, 2008 @ 12:38 pm

  307. Lily, unless you were there you know nothing of the sort.

    Comment by Bee Taylor — April 27, 2008 @ 12:43 pm

  308. With Lily and her crystal ball, why do we even need investigators? or LE or the FBI OR NCIS? Fire them all, Lily is on the scene!

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 12:50 pm

  309. Lily,

    I agree about the last part. It has been indicated on here (Rick Sutherland) that there was communication between ML and CL right before her disappearance, leading me to believe that he knew she was coming.

    I think that CL did all the digging and tearing the fence down, burning, etc….I just do not see how he could have cleaned that in less than 2 hours. I do think the body wasn’t in the garage when she returned. The concrete would have had crevises that the blood would have soaked into…that’s not a mopping up job, that’s a hands and knees job. He undoubtedly would have had to take a shower and stop his evil little heart from beating out of his chest before wife got home.

    He then went and purchased the burial materials on the 16th at Lowe’s. No matter where he stashed the corpse, I just can’t see wifie not smelling it–if vultures were flying over head, it seems like to me it stunk bad enough for a woman to smell if it was right under her nose (or in or around her house). MOO.

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 12:52 pm

  310. Curious,
    Dying from “Blunt Force to the head” only means the injury no matter how it was sustained was the cause of death. Many who’ve had their head slammed into something die from said cause.

    I’m NOT saying that’s what happened to Maria, but it COULD be a possibility and the reason I’m interested in knowing just what was taken from the Laurean residence for examination.

    Comment by Sentry — April 27, 2008 @ 1:22 pm

  311. Well you can be sure it wasn’t a washing machine.Lol.

    rake maybe, scrub clipper,sledgehammer.

    Cesar may have sliced her throat with the shovel after she was alsready down in the pit. gross. 140 lbs of bulky dead weight. I still dont believe a 5’8 160lbs guy could lift her and carry her that far,hence the wheel barrow I guess.

    wrapped her up where she lay in the garage,threw some sand on the blood and some bags and boxes over her, then stripped and threw clothes in the washer and jumped in the shower,slap on some old spice and lay on couch thinking up excuse for party when wife comes home. Oh I feel sick with the flu blah blah blah..

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 1:34 pm

  312. Carolyn,

    Just caught something in your last post (time line). Was it documented that the phone stopped being answered around 5:30? I ask this because when I lived in J’ville, the bus station was over on Johnson Blvd (the street where Beacham Apts and Jugheads used to be). If that is the case still and she left PG ATM at 4:20 or so, it would make since that she would get to the bus station around 4:40 in traffic, like the teller reported. He said she stayed 20 minutes. From the bus station on Johnson to CLJ was about 20 minutes for us in traffic. I am beginning to think they were arguing, she called him, he made her mad, she threw the cell phone out the window by CLJ and continued on to his house (appr. another 10-15 minutes). That would put her at his house around 5:30 or a little after. They had to have argued a few minutes before he killed her, so that means he MAY have had 1 hr 15 minutes to cover up, shower, dispose of evidence etc before wife got home. I didn’t know about the time frame of the phone, but if it is documented, that is very, very telling evidence, mixed with the drive times and the purchase time of the ticket!

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 1:36 pm

  313. Will they release what was actually taken away from these searches or only what they were possibly looking for when they initiated the Search Warrants?

    I can’t remember ever seeing a SW that divulged an inventory of what was found and actually taken.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 27, 2008 @ 1:52 pm

  314. Mindy, the bus station is now over at 2434 Onslow Drive, kinda catty-corned across the street from Rose Brothers Furniture.

    Comment by Sandy — April 27, 2008 @ 1:59 pm

  315. across the street from where the thunderbird use to be years ago

    Comment by de — April 27, 2008 @ 2:04 pm

  316. Ok, I used to manage little caesar’s over there on Henderson, so I remember that one now. I don’t think it was too far from where I was talking about. Still fits the time line. Could she have been going back to Durham’s when she threw the phone out the window and decided to go to CL’s instead???

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 2:07 pm

  317. IMO – Everthing about her leaving was fake. She was forced to write the note or someone else wrote it. It is not real language. Sounds like it was dictated. Her phone was found on top of the trash can at the main gate. Her ID was found on top of the bushes at the bus station across the street from the police station. Her car was found at the bus station. His car at the hotel by the airport. They might as well have put up signs saying, “She was leaving for Mexico.” People her age do not let go of their cell phones for any reason. She called her mother several times a day. She would not be without a phone. Kids that age cannot do it. Why would she put up with all the crap then take off at the last minute? Her friends said she had nothing to do with him. Wait for the evidence.

    Comment by Dreamer — April 27, 2008 @ 2:21 pm

  318. Mike and Lindell;

    Has NC run paternaty testing on the baby? They avoiding those questions in the press conference. They responded that they were investigating a murder not a rape case. Doesn’t paternity go to motive? Do they have this information?

    Does the due date set by the military match the dates of the rape alligations?

    Comment by Dreamer — April 27, 2008 @ 2:26 pm

  319. Mindy, you bring up a point I have been wondering about. I don’t believe there were vultures flying around over Cesar’s house. I know some neighbors had mentioned helicopters flying around when the police were there working as well as in the woods working.

    I have wondered if the vultures were flying around the wooded area where they were searching in the beginning.

    I’m wondering where that information about vultures came from.

    Comment by Lily — April 27, 2008 @ 2:33 pm

  320. Phone found on top of a trash can? Her ID card in the bushes? That’s the first I’ve heard of that. Thought her phone was found on the side of the road and it was her ATM card found in the bushes. Can you please elaborate Dreamer?

    Comment by Nehi — April 27, 2008 @ 2:43 pm

  321. Lily, it was stated by one of the neighbors to the police while they were investigating, but you know how that goes, just look at the great witnesses they had next door! It may or may not have been true, but I would think that if she was outside a day or 2 she would be stinking to high Heaven and CSL would have noticed. That’s where I am coming up with CSL being involved because either the hole was dug in that short time frame, or she was outside rotting right under CSL’s nose.

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 2:47 pm

  322. Dreamer, you typed “her phone was found on top of the trash can at the main gate”? Can you please tell us where you heard, read this? Thanks.

    Comment by Sandy — April 27, 2008 @ 3:00 pm

  323. I haven’t heard/read anything about the phone being found by the trashcan at the main gate. If that was the case then surely the MP’s would have noticed who put it there. My understanding is it was found in the grassy median on 24 not far from the main gate. Also, I think there was confusion at the beginning and it wasn’t her ID card but her ATM card that was found at the bus station. I think it was reporter earlier that it was her ID card but I think it was clarified to say her ATM card.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 27, 2008 @ 3:39 pm

  324. Lanvb: Mary also said that they suspected Maria was bipolar. Of course it wasn’t a diagnosis but they suspected it.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 27, 2008 @ 4:01 pm

  325. Hey everyone, about the BC being public record; a BC in the state of NC is not public record. In order to go into the register of deeds and get a BC who have to be person or the parent of the person on the BC and you have to show ID and that is why you do not see a month and day on the BC online. Being that the daughter was born in 2006 and she was 18 months old in Jan. 2008, when mean that Christina was pregnant when they got married.
    Mike and Lindell cant wait to read what you find out.

    Comment by LTH — April 27, 2008 @ 4:04 pm

  326. http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=52333

    Cell phone found on side of road near main gate by stranded guy who called ML’s sis and then was told to call the police. (Dec. 19)

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 4:04 pm

  327. What is the word on the SW being released?

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 4:21 pm

  328. By the way, Maria’s sister Anne myspace page just does not say nothing about Maria being in love with a dream. It say rip my beautiful sissy Maria.

    Comment by LTH — April 27, 2008 @ 4:22 pm

  329. LTH
    You are looking at one of her other pages. She has 3 that are active and one does state in love with a dream.

    Comment by JB — April 27, 2008 @ 4:31 pm

  330. LTH, this is the “RIP my beautiful sissy Maria in love with a dream” page. It says it on the right top side.

    http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=121145177

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 4:39 pm

  331. Perhaps Anne isn’t talking about Maria being in love with a dream…perhaps it’s herself. Seeing as her mood is confused, my guess is she’s talking about herself and not Maria.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 27, 2008 @ 4:41 pm

  332. I am disgusted with the wave of disinformation in some of the above posts. some people need to read up and get a clue.

    She couldn’t have gone back to Durhams,she left the bus station at 5pm,she would have gotten home @5:30 as he was pulling in and reading her note. she would have had a lot of ‘splaining to do. she would still be alive. Lily there is no evidence anyone made maria write the note. I am sure they have verified that she wrote it with handwriting analysis.

    Her ph was found by the main gate on dec 20th , not the same day she went missing. she never called her mom the evening of dec 14th. that goes into my timeline of time of death @5:30 pm. durham was not able to reach her either.I am 100% possitive he would have tried and been alarmed.

    It is possible during the argument with cesar that her cell rang(durham), and that is when she tried to escape out of the garage ,cesar ran after her into the garage. yes , I believe the garage was where the fatal blow occured because the evidence shows that is where the most blood was located.

    About the blunt force instrument. Do you think the MC forensic people would be trying to recontruct her skull to figure out the ‘blows sequence’ and ‘weapon print’ on her skull if it was a washing machine? My understanding is she was hit by ‘blows to the head’ not slammed against a hard object. they wouldn’t call a washing machine a ‘murder weapon’

    they said there were distinctive marks on her skull like those made by the claw of a crowbar.

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 4:43 pm

  333. I just thought it odd when I saw it next to maria’s name.

    Curious, she could have been on the way back to Durham’s to intercept the note, but he likely called her before she got there and she knew he had found it, then threw the phone out so she wouldn’t have to listen to it ring like crazy or be traced with GPS, then headed for CL’s to get $ for a hotel.

    I say that because if she went straight from the bus station to CL’s house, she wouldn’t be anywhere near where the phone was in route to CL’s. She’d probably have taken Henderson or Gum Branch, not gone all the way back around to CLJ…but Durhams house WAS out that way. Jmoo.

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 4:51 pm

  334. Maria didnt throw her ph away. It appears someone else threw it there days later. I think we know who that was. The police would be able to trace the pings to find the loc she was for her last call and if that ph was at cesars and then ended up outside the gate. if her ID/ATM card was found in the bushes in raleigh then why is it so far fetched to think cesar also dumped her ph at the gate? he also used her atm card and moved her car around. all done to confuse or give the impression she was still alive.

    I still wonder where her wallet /purse is and if it was recovered.

    Comment by curious — April 27, 2008 @ 5:05 pm

  335. I’m just saying that we are all entitled to our own opinions on this case because we are missing big chunks of evidence that hasn’t/won’t be released until the trial. I think everyone is grabbing at straws trying to make sense of it all. We should all respect that, as not everyone will agree with everyone’s opinions.

    I stated earlier that I was basing my opinions off my experience in law school and with my knowledge of what they usually do/don’t release etc. I am also basing these opinions off the word play that the investigators have used throughout, as if they are trying to shine this in a different light so that CL doesn’t catch on to alot of things (and the potential jury pool, as well).

    I honestly don’t think anything can really be ruled out as to if/when it happened because, again, the way they word things has a completely different connotation in the legal world than it does to many that are not trained to see it.

    I also believe ML was a little unstable at the time and could very well have chunked the phone in her irrational state. I know there are plenty of times I want to throw mine out the window of the car when I am arguing with my bf or my sister calls. If I was planning on running away with a married man, I’d chunk mine too.

    And they can trace the phone through GPS down to the tower that was in the area, but there is no way to know the exact location of the person when you are making a call–believe me, my phone was stolen Wednesday and I have been going around in circles with Verizon and the police to find my phone. They CAN, however, retrieve the bill and find out WHO she (or the POI) called… R. Sutherland said that they had been in communication.

    I’m quite sure that they have the records to that phone and that haven’t been released to us, but they have said that there are records of them communicating in the days right before her disappearance (per R. Sutherland on Q&A, again).

    They took some stuff from her car but I don’t recall them releasing the info. Anything is possible at this point.

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 5:29 pm

  336. Who said there were distinctive marks on her skull like those made by the claw of a crowbar?

    Comment by Anonymous — April 27, 2008 @ 5:32 pm

  337. Anonymous,
    No where that I’ve read did it say “claw of a crowbar” :(

    Comment by Sentry — April 27, 2008 @ 6:07 pm

  338. I saw earlier someone had it that only her abdomen was burned besides the distinctive marks of a crowbar on her skull. Where does this stuff come from? :?:

    Comment by Anonymous — April 27, 2008 @ 7:21 pm

  339. Anonymous,
    I have no idea where some of this info. came from :)

    Comment by Sentry — April 27, 2008 @ 7:43 pm

  340. JDNEWS

    Autopsy: Baby clothes found in pit with Lauterbach’s body
    April 11, 2008 – 7:57AM

    Comment by USMCVET — April 27, 2008 @ 8:12 pm

  341. http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jxqt6p-lauterbachautopsy1.pdf

    It states there that the left side of the body was mostly charred (the side with the head injury). Charring would indicate to me that it occured over a period of time (from the bonfires), whereas I would think “burns” would be more appropriate for setting someone on fire. I would think if there was a direct flame on the top part of her body, the clothing would have ignited and burned up.

    Comment by Mindy — April 27, 2008 @ 8:13 pm

  342. Mindy,
    I agree, and if it was a direct flame the bag w/infant item would have burned up and the label wouldn’t have been legible.

    Comment by Sentry — April 27, 2008 @ 9:40 pm

  343. JB and Mindy thanks for the info. I knew that the page I was looking at did not have that on there.

    Comment by LTH — April 28, 2008 @ 12:56 am

  344. Hi there. I am a little confused when someone says that Chistina must have been pregnant when they married. They married 12 Aug 2005, baby was 18 mo old in Jan 2008.
    12 Aug 2005 to 12 Aug 2007 is 24 months, and 5 more to Jan. makes 29 months, so 18 months + about 10 is 28 mos. for baby to be conceived and born, how could she have been pregnant when they married. Am I missing something?

    Comment by justice4all — April 28, 2008 @ 12:54 pm

  345. Why would Maria not take her car going to El Paso ? Why cant she use her own car? Why take the bus? Why cant Cesar drive Maria’s car if he’s going to go with her? Leaving her car could mean that she’s going somewhere and will come back afterwards?

    Comment by Italy — April 28, 2008 @ 3:15 pm

  346. Thanks, Itlay! This is the question I just can’t get past. I’ve certainly become convinced that she seems to have purchased the ticket voluntarily, but WHY? Is this a marine going UA thing?

    Comment by R356 — April 28, 2008 @ 3:31 pm

  347. I think all indications show that Maria did plan to leave the area on her own free will. She was going UA. She could’ve changed her mind after thinking about it some more though.

    Comment by Nehi — April 28, 2008 @ 3:36 pm

  348. The question is why take a bus when you have a car?

    Comment by R356 — April 28, 2008 @ 3:55 pm

  349. So she wouldn’t have to hassle with the long drive, possibly, is my answer. She could just sit and ride and not have to worry about having to stop frequently to use a restroom and most importantly driving that distance for someone who may not know the way would lessen the stress. She probably wasn’t familiar with the drive there and found it safer and easier to take the bus.

    Comment by Nehi — April 28, 2008 @ 4:00 pm

  350. Until we know who was in Texas, we may not figure that out.

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 28, 2008 @ 4:01 pm

  351. Probably cheaper to ride the bus. Money wouldn’t be wasted on hotels and whatnot.

    Comment by Nehi — April 28, 2008 @ 4:02 pm

  352. Hopefully we will get the answer to that question soon, R356.

    Comment by Sandy — April 28, 2008 @ 4:03 pm

  353. I think she left her car perhaps because she wasnt able to drive far. at least on the bus she could stand up and walk around to keep her ankles from exploding.

    Who here thinks its possible SHE NEVER INTENDED TO LEAVE THE AREA, but just wanted it to APPEAR, she did???????

    To hide out from the MC and avoid the article 34 hearing.They were moving towards a courts martial and would not drop the charges.Maria would be forced to testify and send Cesar to prison. Or face charges for false allegations herself.The only way to avoid that would be to disapear.
    I think the MC put her between a rock and a hard place and desperate ppl do desperate things.

    I think the whole argument stemmed from Maria trying to UN-DO what she started and promising to fix it by leaving.
    this is surmised by me
    C-’We wouldnt be in this mess if you hadnt lied about the rape, I NEVER RAPED YOU!
    M-’You lied to ME first by not telling me you were married!”

    C-’Now I am facing the chain gang at Leavensworth because of you!
    M-”You started it by LYING to me!”
    C-’You better get on that bus tommorow!!
    M-’Maybe I’ll just stay here, I am having second thoughts,I’m scared!”
    C”You’re getting on that damn bus!”
    M-’Don’t tell me what the do!”
    C-”Ok,get the hell out of here,Christina might come home!”
    M-’NO,I’m not leaving, in fact I’m going to tell her EVERYTHING!!”
    C-”Get OUT!!!!”
    HIT/PUNCH/GRABS HER AND PUSHES HER
    SHE KICKS HIM/hits back
    SHE RUNS TO THE GARAGE/he chases after her
    he grabs a weapon.lights out.

    Comment by curious — April 28, 2008 @ 4:08 pm

  354. BOTH Cesar & Maria had vehicles, but chose to travel by bus. If your intent is to travel and escape under the radar, the bus was the way to go, PLUS the bonus of bye-bye payments.

    Comment by Sentry — April 28, 2008 @ 4:27 pm

  355. So your loving wife can’t find you maybe?

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 28, 2008 @ 5:01 pm

  356. R356Says:

    April 28th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
    “The question is why take a bus when you have a car?”

    If she took the car she knew they would have a BOLO out on the vehicle. By taking the bus it would take much longer for them to realize she may have even taken the bus. By then she would be at her destination. El Paso may have just been her initial destination. Maybe someone was to pick her up there and proceed on to the final destination.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 28, 2008 @ 6:01 pm

  357. Drake

    Yes maybe El Paso is just a stop over but they have to take another Bus to go to another destination (Mexico?) and bringing the car is not going to make it. How’s Maria’s credit? Is this car paid off? How old is this car?

    Comment by Italy — April 28, 2008 @ 6:42 pm

  358. Being male and having no children, I can’t speak for the issues that surround the later stages of a pregnancy, so the points brought up about that could very well answer the question. Ditching the car payment also works. As for the BOLO, I believe that the car was not found for almost a month and it was right there in Jacksonville the whole time. I’m not sure what the Marines do when looking for a UA, but wouldn’t the transportation hubs be near the first on the list to check? I really like the theory that she was making it appear that she was leaving, but not really. It best explains leaving the note. Just thinking…

    Comment by R356 — April 28, 2008 @ 6:43 pm

  359. Maybe she was going to purchase a new ticket when the bus stopped in Raleigh and then head home to OHIO……that way the MC would think she was in El Paso….she PURPOSELY USED HER MC ID to purchase in Jacksonville, but maybe she had a FAKE ID to use in RALEIGH…..where the heck could she go with 500 bucks and no car and no more income?………home……….

    Comment by MARTHA — April 28, 2008 @ 6:53 pm

  360. As to the discussion further back about the clothes and the autopsy, I also wondered immediately about the missing clothes. I know it sounds gruesome, but did anybody else wonder about the missing “extremities”. On the drawings it shows there were no hands or feet. Even with the charring, doesn’t this seem a little odd that all 4 were not there?

    Comment by R356 — April 28, 2008 @ 6:55 pm

  361. That also works, Martha.

    Comment by R356 — April 28, 2008 @ 6:56 pm

  362. The only safe place Maria could hide from the Corp is Canada. I don’t think they send deserters back to the US.

    Comment by curious — April 28, 2008 @ 7:04 pm

  363. Italy asked:
    “Is this car paid off? How old is this car?”
    =>The ’06 Hyundai wasn’t paid off!

    Comment by Sentry — April 28, 2008 @ 7:09 pm

  364. Weren’t the initial reports that Maria recieved wire transfers from her family? Maybe it was uncle Peter because her mom thought she had been kidnapped…I think Mary was kept completely in the dark.

    Maybe Uncle Peter knows the full ‘PLAN’.

    Comment by curious — April 28, 2008 @ 7:11 pm

  365. R356, I think when most of the real facts come out, this case is going to get even more shocking.

    Comment by Carolyn — April 28, 2008 @ 7:16 pm

  366. Sorry. I just went back to reread the autopsy and found “other bags contain various fragments of long bone, extremities, and skull”, so the extremities were not missing.

    Comment by R356 — April 28, 2008 @ 7:17 pm

  367. Thanks Sentry. Car isnt paid off. How’s her credit? Is she willing to ruin her credit by leaving the car ? I know couple friends that value their credit history too much eventhough they are only 22 years old.

    Comment by Italy — April 28, 2008 @ 7:28 pm

  368. Martha, IMO she will tell her mother if she’s going back HOME.

    Comment by Italy — April 28, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

  369. Justice4all, Abianna was born in 2006. Both Christina and Amber had babies in 2006 Also remember, that the media stated that they had a child about 18 months old. The key word there is “about”. I figure if the 18 months was correct then Abrianna was born in May of 2006 which means that Christina was pregnant when they got married.

    Comment by LTH — April 28, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

  370. Curious,
    Are you confusing the wire transfers regarding the Laureans with the Lauterbach family :?:

    Comment by Sentry — April 28, 2008 @ 7:30 pm

  371. From greenville SC Maria could have switched busses to Louisville,KY….where Uncle Peter lives.

    Comment by curious — April 28, 2008 @ 7:31 pm

  372. Do you think Uncle Peter could be the baby’s father?

    Comment by Anonymous — April 28, 2008 @ 7:56 pm

  373. could ‘Butch Smith’ be related to Christina & Amber?

    Comment by Anonymous — April 28, 2008 @ 8:03 pm

  374. LTH, thanks. I must be in left field. The Laurens got married in Aug of 2005 and from then to Aug of 2007 is 24 months, and 5 more months to Jan 2008. Baby was about 18 months, but there were 29 months from the marriage date and baby would need 28 (18 + about 10.) Am I missing something?

    Comment by justice4all — April 28, 2008 @ 8:06 pm

  375. LTH, I think I figured Abrianna to have a birthday in about July 2006. What do you think?

    Comment by justice4all — April 28, 2008 @ 8:08 pm

  376. Justice4all, I figure somewhere between May and July for the simple fact that the media stated “a daughter about 18 months old”.

    Comment by LTH — April 28, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

  377. Cesar Armando Laurean married Christina Sue Smith on August 12 2005

    Comment by curious — April 28, 2008 @ 8:32 pm

  378. LTH & curious, if anyone here knows someone who also had a baby in onslow county in the year 2006, that would help to better figure out when Abrianna was actually born. By looking at the numbers of the BC, which are in cronilogical order by date of birth.

    Does anyone here know someone who gave birth in OC in 2006?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 28, 2008 @ 8:36 pm

  379. Posters,
    Could someone please explain to me what, and when Christina got pregnant has to do directly with this case :?:

    This sounds like a conversation from my mother’s era :(

    Comment by Sentry — April 28, 2008 @ 8:37 pm

  380. Sentry,

    it goes to showing if CL really wanted to be married to CSL or if he felt like he was obligated to marry her.

    there is a BIG difference in whether the murder was planned or was spur of the moment.

    if he really didn’t love CSL and wanted to be with ML, maybe the murder was not pre-meditated.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 28, 2008 @ 8:43 pm

  381. Anon,

    who is ‘Butch Smith’?

    Comment by LAnVB — April 28, 2008 @ 8:45 pm

  382. “Butch” Smith was the POI in a triple homicide that occurred on base in 1981. He was 15 at the time but was never charged with the crimes.

    Lindell did an article on it and the story ran yesterday.

    No relation to anyone in this case that we are aware of.

    If you’re interested, the story in at jdnews.com, listed as “Base case evidence ignored?”

    Comment by Sandy — April 28, 2008 @ 9:11 pm

  383. Thanks Sandy!

    Comment by LAnVB — April 28, 2008 @ 9:34 pm

  384. Cesar Armando Laurean was born on November 13, 1986
    Laurean joined the Marine Corps in September 2004 -AGE 17 and
    married Christina AGE 22,11 months later in aug 12 2005 -AGE 18
    NOV 13 2005 he turned 19
    abrianna was born in 2006
    On October 31, 2006, Cesar and Christina purchased their home at 103 Meadow Trail, Jacksonville, North Carolina for $115,429.00 on a V.A. Loan.

    His parents Salvador and Elvira sold their Nevada home in 2006.
    Cesars truck is in Salvadors name
    Nov 13, 2007 Cesar turns 21
    Dec 14,2007 Maria is killed

    Comment by curious — April 28, 2008 @ 9:50 pm

  385. Laurean joined the Marine Corps in September 2004
    April 6, 2005 – Laurean joins his current unit, a combat logistics regiment based at Camp Lejeune, N.C.

    married Christina 5 months later in aug 12 2005

    June 6, 2006 – Maria Lauterbach, of Dayton, Ohio, enlists in the U.S. Marine Corps.
    ABRIANNA BORN
    LAUREANS BUY THIER FIRST HOME OCT 2006

    Nov. 23 2006– Lauterbach joins Laurean’s unit.

    Comment by curious — April 28, 2008 @ 10:05 pm

  386. LTH Even if Abrianna was born in May 2006, there is plenty of time from 12 August 2005. I think that no excuse is a good excuse for finding someone else once you have made marriage vows with a spouse. Even if the baby was on the way when they married, at least they had the courage to make a family of it. Many people are so afraid of marrying in case things go wrong. Unfortunately, of course, we know that sometimes things do go wrong.
    Maria’s friends said she didn’t know he was married when they first began dating. I wonder if the two CL’s were separated or something? Almost all wives would know if hubby came home and got all spruced up, cologne and all, and went out for the evening, and had phone calls and so forth. What do you think? Puzzling.

    Comment by justice4all — April 28, 2008 @ 10:58 pm

  387. LAnVB, didn’t you say you were once in LE? Well, I have been thinking carefully about the autopsy report and the clothes on top of the body. Somehow, I think the ME might have said “wearing” if the clothing was actually ON her body.
    What do you think?

    Comment by justice4all — April 28, 2008 @ 11:01 pm

  388. Justice4all, Cesar could have easily said that he was going out with the guys and Christina would never think nothing of it. It is nothing new for military guys to have guys night out especially at Cesar’s age. I know when I was married to a marine, a bunch of them would have guys night out. With Christina being in the reserves instead of active duty, it would have been easy for him to keep the fact that he was married hidden. I think that if I am recalling correctly, Cesar has been described as being popular, so his buddies would have had his back in helping him keep his marriage a secret. I think that what Christina had learned since May of 2007 is what made her decide to go back active duty. IMO, it was to keep a eye on Cesar more than anything. This is why I can not picture her staying at his christmas party without him and it is also why I would like to know more about the bonfire, because I know that I would not want to be around any of his friends with all of the rumors flying around. I would also like to hear from the officer in charge that Maria confided in because it seems like to me that it might have been this officer that convince Maria to report the assault so I would like to know if that was the words that Maria used when she confided in this officer in charge.

    Comment by LTH — April 29, 2008 @ 12:29 am

  389. LTH, I see what you mean, it is quite possible, although if it was more than a couple of nights a week it might cause suspicion. As far as the bonfire goes, If it was the two CL’s and the sister and brother in law, and a couple of other married couples, that would be 8 people, it might not have been “the guys” who would make little remarks, nods, and winks. As to the officer, yes, that is puzzling. Two ideas, one is that the “shop” or “office” they worked in was a hive of gossip and everyone knew all about everyone else and Maria felt comfortable telling the officer all about it and he decided to take it up a notch FOR HER SAKE, or, the second idea is, what if she told him and he had his doubts and decided to take it up the scale FOR HIS SAKE, feeling that if it was “iffy” that he really forced her in any way, making an official complaint might squash it once and for all. If her senior officer “advised” her to make a complaint she would have been between a rock and a hard place, because he was her superior. She may never actually have wanted to squeak on Cesar to get him in trouble, maybe just to vent her frustration at the situation. After all, it must be hard to get to like someone only to find you have been tricked into a bad situation.

    Comment by justice4all — April 29, 2008 @ 2:18 am

  390. Justice4all…Your post at 11:01 is exactly the point I was trying to make yesterday morning. Lendell did say he would ask the ME about it.

    Comment by LJK — April 29, 2008 @ 6:12 am

  391. Sorry I misspelled your name Lindell…

    Comment by LJK — April 29, 2008 @ 6:13 am

  392. I just reviewd the info Cesar told Christinia..It looks like Maria went to the house twice, once on Fri and then again on Sat the 15th…….right before she was to get on the bus. Christina was working on Sat?

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 7:11 am

  393. Justice4all: There are actually two different ways at reporting a rape in the military-restricted and unrestricted. Restricted reporting is where you don’t want to press charges, but you want to make it known that you were raped. All the information is entered into a database. Unrestricted reporting means you want it to be investigated and you want charges brought forward.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 29, 2008 @ 7:19 am

  394. Thanks, AnnDaniel. Curious, I wonder if they are all making a mistake about the date. They might be saying 15th, but if it all happened on the day of the Christmas party, then it had to be 14th. The notes and all were written a month later, unless they were written and held in reserve for the flight. Cesar may have thought he would one day have to leave.

    Comment by justice4all — April 29, 2008 @ 7:42 am

  395. Curious…Wasn’t it verified that Maria’s bus ticket was for 5:30pm on Dec. 15th. What time do you think Christina got off work that day??? Also in the interview that Christian’s parents gave on CBS do you know if they were referring to the 14th or the 15th….Thanks in advance if you know.

    Comment by LJK — April 29, 2008 @ 7:42 am

  396. I just find it so hard to believe Maria didn’t know he was married especially if she was attracted to him. Nov. 23 2006– Lauterbach joins Laurean’s unit. Why wouldn’t she know? Others knew, like Lisa and Lisa said she knew Maria too and Maria and Cesar’s relationship began around December 06.

    It just seems to me if she was liking him and then started seeing him she would have asked all sorts of questions about him to her co-workers and they knew he was married.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 7:56 am

  397. Curious, I have always felt that the last time she came back WAS the 15th and that is why the date of the 15th is there in his notes supposedly.

    And I don’t find it feasible that he just forgot the date it happened. I think that date is very much sealed into his mind.

    Your question is a compelling one. Yes, where was Christina on the Saturday? Maria was going to leave at 5:30 pm for El Paso so she had to come there before that time with plenty of time to spare to get to the station.

    It makes a lot more sense to me and why he borrowed the shovel the very next day (16th) and went to Lowes. (16th)

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 8:11 am

  398. Yes, why would Maria say ‘her plans fell through’ on fri the 14th right after she bought the bus ticket. It makes more sense she went back Sat the 15th and told him that. Wherever she was headed maybe called her fri nite and said she couldn’t come???

    Yes,if she died on fri the 14th , then why wait until sunday the 16th to go to lowes? why not go on sat the 15th?holy decomposition!!! one day is one thing but a dead body for 2 days, the stench would have seeped into the whole house. It would be very difficult to remove the smell…the garage wasn’t airconditioned either..what was the temp?60-70 degrees with humidity? yikes….wonder if anyone saw him buying bags of ice?

    fri-5:30 stoppped in for money after buying bus ticket
    sat-agitated stopped in to say plans had failed

    If she died sat am/aft, then it could have kept until the next morning(sun)

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 9:01 am

  399. Maybe Mary knows more than she has said to the public….Maria’s obituary had the 15th even thought LE had said the 14th.

    Comment by LJK — April 29, 2008 @ 9:06 am

  400. Drake that makes more sense to me too but where did Maria spend the night and hide out on the 14th then? Hotel records here locally would show or did she stay with a friend? Where are all the people that were at the bonfire? Are they being held under wraps as cooperating witnesses too? As to not spoil the evidence for a possible trial? Reading the above if Maria was going to leave her car behind then it doesn’t sound to me like she was coming back or worried about being “in the 50 states” I think she and Cesar were bound for Mexico. I think someone was going to pick them up and they were going down there to escape the USMC and the wife of Cesar and the opinionated adopted mom of Maria’s. As far as did Maria know Cesar was married….how common is it for a guy to lie about that? Pretty common from my experience. Also (sorry good guys) many guys that are married aren’t going to leave unless they have something to leave too….a plan. They will lie and say I do love you and I am leaving her…just be patient …etc etc…so even if Maria didn’t first know Cesar was married and found out later if she had feelings…etc …that may have been a possible way that played out. As far as Maria’s clothes….I too am stumped on that one so many scenarios could play out. I don’t think Cesar raped Maria on the 14th or 15th IMO. If CL and CL’s daughter was born in April or May of 2006 then its is very possible that Christina was pregnant when they got married in Aug of 2005…the baby would be approximately 18 months old by my calculations at the end of Dec 2007 beginning of Jan 2008. So that is still a possible reason Cesar married Christina…pregnancy. He could have also been infatuated with her being a slightly older young woman than he was too….and just not been “in love” with her to the degree she was with him….then Maria comes along and Christina is still getting over baby fat etc body changes and Cesar falls for Maria. It is possible that Cesar loved/loves Maria. OJ supposedly loved Nicole (not that it totally compares, just saying….) That is why it is so hard to believe for me that Cesar killed Maria unless it was in a fit of rage…I am still left wondering who else was involved. You know the way ppl talk especially at a younger age…they are talking…just not on this blog.

    Comment by Lindsay — April 29, 2008 @ 9:07 am

  401. I think the Lauterbach’s said the 15th because that is what the ME report said and that is usually the date of death that you go with. I believe that for LE to change it to the 14th after the ME has put the 15th going on the info received by the LE, that the LE has some concrete evidence to say that she died on the 14th.

    Comment by LTH — April 29, 2008 @ 9:18 am

  402. LTH I agree I wonder what the death certificate will say as the DOD?

    Comment by Lindsay — April 29, 2008 @ 9:35 am

  403. Lindsay Says:

    April 29th, 2008 at 9:35 am
    LTH I agree I wonder what the death certificate will say as the DOD

    I have seen a copy of the death certificate but can’t remember what link it was under but the DOD is the 16th and TOD is unknown.

    So I wonder why the 16th was listed but it does explain why the Probate papers initializing Maria’s estate lists the 16th. That date must correspond with the death certificate enter with the filing papers.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 9:43 am

  404. These are very interesting theories ! If Maria was killed on Sat 15th, this would explain the “too tight” timeline on the 14th ( before Christina to got home at 7pm and not know anything). IIRC Christina’s Dad, said she was at work when this all came down, that would be Sat. ? Could it be that “the plans ” that fell thru was actually Cesar backing out of leaving with Maria on the bus Sat. , she goes to Cesars house to confront or pick him up , threats and fight ensues ?? The thing for me that sticks out, Why did Maria leave Durham a note on Fri if she didn’t plan on leaving Fri ?? Was she waiting for Cesar to get his affairs in order so he could leave with her on Sat. ?? This sounds more plausible than Cesar killed Maria on Fri. between 5pm & 7pm and was able to get things cleaned up before wife got home ???

    Comment by Cassi — April 29, 2008 @ 10:00 am

  405. Lindsay,

    Sad to say we may never know the answer to that with Maria being deceased but I know the more I think about it I do believe this is what happened. Everything just falls into place and makes commonsense. I never believed he would just wait two days before he buried her. That just never made logical sense to me. He would want this over and done with as soon as the first opportunity came along. I bet we will find that he borrowed the shovel that morning and later in the day he went to Lowes after he had buried her already.

    I wonder if Maria was in labor or thought she was and everything was going wrong when she returned. They both may have been freaking out about that especially with her being there in his home.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 10:31 am

  406. Drake I agree with you that if the few facts we have are valid indeed that this theory works with the timeline. I wish we just had ” theory post” for each blogger to post their own theories beg – end. I think many ppl on this blog have really been paying attention and it is very interesting to me to read everyone’s thoughts and ideas.
    Sadly you are right, Maria won’t be able to tell us what happened, and there will be many things we may not know ever. If we are this curious about the case, do you think that Maria’s family is? I think I would be…maybe after I got a better handle on the initial shock and blow of loosing her…and the baby. My heart goes out to Maria’s family. No matter what has been said or done…the bottom line is this young woman had so much going for her and obviously many ppl that loved her and cared about her. I just like many others want to see justice served.
    One other point I thought of this morning…someone mentioned (LJK I believe) they wondered if Mary knew more than the public? I would certainly think so!? And hope so! The public shouldn’t know more than the family at any given point. I found it odd that in one of the beginning articles/interviews, Maria’s mom, Mary, stated that she “was not upset” with Cesar?! I found that really odd unless she knew something we don’t know. I don’t think you could be to the stage of acceptance and forgiveness that quickly of someone that just brutally murdered your child and grandchild…do you?
    Do you think its possible that Cesar and Maria were making plans to head to Mexico? Together? Maybe he convinced her that she could have the baby in Mexico and believed it was his. If that really was Maria’s sister, Anne, that posted on one of these links, she stated that it was Cesar’s baby didn’t she? Anne also has on her website “RIP Maria, sister, trying to live a dream, or chase a dream…” something to that effect. Sounds to me like Maria had feelings for Cesar. When this opens up more with all of it’s numerous more “twists and turns” as Sheriff Brown said it would, it will be very interesting. My heart still goes out to this family, the Lauterbach’s. It isn’t just loosing your sister, daugther, niece, friend…it is on stage constantly and has been since January. I lost my brother 7 years ago and it is still difficult at times and there wasn’t all the publicity these family members are dealing with. I wonder who is making Lindell a proposition tonight over drinks? Any guesses?

    Comment by Lindsay — April 29, 2008 @ 10:53 am

  407. When Le said there was no more activity on Maria’s cell after the 14th, that doesnt mean ANYTHING. There are lots of ways to communicate–motel ph,pay phone,track phone

    she may have checked into a motel using a fake ID and paying with cash.

    She left Durham the note on fri because she didnt want to deal with him face to face on sat when he would be home..he would have tried to stop her and at the very least, asked lots of questions. This girl was behaving like a desperate caged animal.

    When she kept the status quo with Mary for her visit, that was a lie. Maria didn’t intend on being in town. Maybe she was going to send her mother a postcard from the road telling her not to worry. Her Uncle Peter is another story, if he was treating her as a patient, he would be bound by patient-doctoe confidentialty…I think he KNEW what she was doing…

    ‘she was terrified and the MC didnt protect her against the harrassment”

    When a MC woman gets raped, the MC doesn’t treat her as the victim, they look at themselves as the victim.

    So you see,Maria had no choice but to disapear.

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 11:21 am

  408. I posted a theory thread for y’all to spell out what you think happened the day Maria died.

    Comment by Lindell Kay — April 29, 2008 @ 11:25 am

  409. Lindsay, I have always felt this entire situation began because of immature decision making. I do believe they had feelings for each other and sometimes that can make someone make a compulsive decision out of
    raw emotions at the time only to realize later that they can never take it back. Imo, they both had boxed themselves in a corner concerning their careers. He knew all along he had had consensual sex with Maria and Maria knew that Gabriel was not a product of rape by this man and she knew now the MC wanted the baby’s DNA and weren’t backing off but she couldn’t take all that back and she knew that. So to solve both of their pending problems I think they decided to leave before Gabriel was born. Nothing was going to end good in the Corps for either one of them. If Gabe was born and is his child then he would be a liar which would tarnish his stellar status big time. If Maria was not believed about the rape allegation she too would be in a pickle because credibility in the Corps is vital and lying is frowned upon. So imo it was a no win proposition for both of them.

    So to save themselves from all of this they planned to leave it all behind. He was to have said that his wife was pregnant. Did he see himself married to Maria one day in the future? I do wonder.

    I am not sure exactly what the Lauterbach family knows. When my coworker was murdered by her husband the State LE agency that handled the case did not divulge the evidence that they were working on that would be entered at trial. They did converse with her family but only in generalized terms such as they expected an arrest soon, which took 4 months but they were not told the intricate evidence they had uncovered even about his actions before, during and after the crime. The DA did divulge that information right before it was going to be divulged by witnesses in the trial so they could prepare themselves.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 11:31 am

  410. LTH Says:

    April 29th, 2008 at 9:18 am
    I think the Lauterbach’s said the 15th because that is what the ME report said and that is usually the date of death that you go with. I believe that for LE to change it to the 14th after the ME has put the 15th going on the info received by the LE, that the LE has some concrete evidence to say that she died on the 14th.

    I don’t think they have concrete evidence that she died on the 14th. Even Sutherland said they have no time of death and are working solely on perimeters.

    So they cant just go by the last time she was seen, especially in this case where the time of death seems to be so varying and Maria had intentions of leaving and it makes sense sense the note had already been left to Dan she would not want to be seen out in the Jacksonville area.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 11:42 am

  411. Is Cesar a member of the fdle church? Did he fancy himself as having several ‘wives”? I am beginning to wonder.

    I don’t think both of them had to leave to solve the ‘problem’ just Maria—with her gone the rape allegation goes away, the baby problem goes away, Christinia’as paranoia goes away..,and most importantly, THE ARTICLE 35 goes away..since she is no longer there to testify.

    Perhaps she was headed to a womans shelter, but when she called on fri night they were now too full???

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 11:45 am

  412. Curious, I value your opinion but I disagree…if Cesar loved her the only thing I can add is that he may have tried to agree to meet her at a later date….with Maria gone…he would still have the litter scattered around him for a while and the talks behind his back and he still had already lost integrity, etc due to the allegations. If he really loved her maybe he already had a bus ticket purchased to join her? Maybe someone was holding something over his head and he couldn’t leave? Maybe can go on forever with speculation. If he really did not love her…I don’t see him sending Maria somewhere when he would still have to worry about her future moves and the effects on him of her future choices. Maria didn’t seem like the women’s shelter type to me…I think last minute plans fell through…for an unknown reason….later I will try to post my current theory beginning up until now. Maybe if we all do that we can get even more perspective. Right now we are beating bits and pieces over and over. Thanks Lindell for the “theory blog!” I am anxious to read the theories postings. I think even with limited info that we all have…all of the ppl really interested in justice and understanding this horrific crime will post their best guessed theories.

    Comment by Lindsay — April 29, 2008 @ 12:05 pm

  413. Do you really think Cesar was going to leave his little girl he adored ,unless he absoultely HAD to?? I doubt it.

    ‘I loved her’ could be a crock of shit for all we know,just like she sliced her own throat,just like he told his wife and the MC he never had sex with Maria. Just like he said in the note she committed suicide ,yet his lawyers told him he could face the DP for that..

    NO…this guy is a LIAR with his pants on FIRE…
    He may have told Maria he loved her to get in her pants…wouldn’t be the first time a guy used that MO..

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 12:56 pm

  414. justice,

    Yes, I did work in LE previously. I do not have a lot of experience in autopsies, but I have seen a few, so IMO…

    I do think that Maria WAS wearing the clothing mentioned in the autopsy when she was killed. The reason I think that is because if those items of clothing were just ‘thrown’ in the grave with the body, I believe LE would have ‘bagged’ them like they did with the other items that were found, but that weren’t actually attached to the body. Also, it appears to me that Maria was put into the grave on her right side (with the left side being the closest to the surface). Therefore, because the majority of the charring of the body was done to the left side, that leads me to believe that the “fragments of charred clothing” was the RIGHT side of her sports bra and green shirt. I say this because I have many sportsbras and I have looked for the location of the ‘tag’ (whether it be tagless and printed on the inside of the sportsbra or if there is an actual tag sewn in), and with the exception of one brand (Fruit of the Loom, which is printed on the inside of the sportsbra, directly in the center of the back), ALL of the other sportsbras ( 4 other brands) that I have, the tag or printed info is on the inside RIGHT side of the sportsbras. From the diagrams shown in the autopsy, the “deep charring” was only to the LEFT side of the body.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 29, 2008 @ 1:25 pm

  415. LAnVB, what in your opinion would cause both of her feet and hands to be gone? This is the part that has puzzled me along with the baby’s hand. I dont understand why they put her on her side either instead of on her back or stomach, but I guess we have to stop and look at this case because no one in their right mind could ever do this to another human being much less an unborn child.

    Comment by LTH — April 29, 2008 @ 1:32 pm

  416. LTH, if she was rolled into the pit, chances are the way she came to lay is the way they left her.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 29, 2008 @ 1:48 pm

  417. And I’m not an expert and have no LE experience but her hands and feet weren’t gone completely…they were just burned off. And that is probably due to the fire burning them off.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 29, 2008 @ 1:49 pm

  418. Curious,

    April 29th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
    Do you really think Cesar was going to leave his little girl he adored ,unless he absolutely HAD to?? I doubt it.

    Well I certainly think it is a possibility. Men quite frequently are leaving their wives and the children they love to go onto marry someone else that they have fallen in love with.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 2:16 pm

  419. Cesar was no BIG strapping guy, but rather average size at 5’9″, 160 #’s. It’s far easier to drag a heavy object than to lift it, slight women do it all the time.

    I think the only reason she was found in a comforter was because it was handy in the garage with other miscel items and she was rolled into it and dragged out to the pre-dug fire pit.

    Comment by Sentry — April 29, 2008 @ 2:34 pm

  420. What difference does it make how she way layed in the grave?She was dead. How would you see which was what anyway with her wrapped up in a comforter? Are you suggesting he should have posed her body?

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 2:45 pm

  421. Curious,
    Who are you asking your above question?

    Comment by Sentry — April 29, 2008 @ 2:50 pm

  422. That’s a LONG way to drag a bulky 140lbs woman. I think he used the wheel barrow. any word from the neighbors if his truck was seen near the ‘flower bed’ aka firepit ? seems risky to drag or even use the wheel barrow. now the truck, he could back up to the back door of the garage.

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 2:51 pm

  423. My comment was to LTH about the position of her body.

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 2:54 pm

  424. Curious, not hard at all, look at what Jenny Eisenman was able to do :)

    How would his truck get to the backyard?, no drive thru gate on the property and if there was, it would mean he would have to lift her way up into the bed of his truck!

    Comment by Sentry — April 29, 2008 @ 2:55 pm

  425. LAnVB, thanks, you are most probably right. The odd thing about it all, is that the throat was one of the least charred areas. Had it been charred away nobody could have said she had not cut her own throat and the head wounds were inflicted by the shovel whilst trying to tamp down the earth. Because of charring the ME was not able to assess damage to the soft tissue around the head wounds. I think that would have told them a great deal. So, with the throat telling its own tale, the ME could see only one sure way of inflicting death, the head wounds. I think head wounds take precedence over other injuries (barring cut throats, of course) because the brain controls everything else. What do you think?

    Comment by justice4all — April 29, 2008 @ 3:15 pm

  426. As far as Cesar and Maria leaving to make a life together, I think Cesar would have thought about the practicalities involved. For one, the lack of a job. He could have worked in construction. Texas has many, many, hispanic construction workers who work for fairly low wages because they don’t want to draw attention to themselves. Cesar may be skilled in construction work. His hands look “deskwork” but he might be good with construction. He might be able to get a job for a bit more than what some Texans refer to as “wetback wages,” which they mean to be under minimum wage. He would probably want to lie low and not draw attention to himself, but it is a far cry from being a Marine at CLJ with all the perks that go along with being a servicemember to being out on the lam with a ready-made family. Also, just a small thought. If he thought he had fallen out of love with one woman and was realy to leave her, might he not do so later to Maria?

    Comment by justice4all — April 29, 2008 @ 3:23 pm

  427. Hopefully everyone will take all their theories of who loved who and if the dog groomer loved Christina and was the father of Christina’s baby over to the other thread. Can we keep this one about the facts and questions for Lindell.

    Comment by Dreamer — April 29, 2008 @ 3:25 pm

  428. Lindell Kay, you said Maria asked Mr. Hames if it would be ok to leave the car there overnight, and he said it was fine to do so, but she did not leave the car? I think it indicates that she was going to come back later and leave the car and go somewhere with someone else.

    Comment by justice4all — April 29, 2008 @ 3:29 pm

  429. Note to dreamer, maybe you should take your insults to the tank and leave the thread to “retracing Marias final steps”. It’s not a Q&A thread either.

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 29, 2008 @ 3:32 pm

  430. Where was her car from the time she bought the bus ticket until it was found later at the bus station?

    Comment by Dreamer — April 29, 2008 @ 3:35 pm

  431. He did remove some fence panels, and I saw LE’s trucks back there.

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 3:36 pm

  432. Dreamer-her car was parked at Laureans, then the bus station and moved around to various places and then put back at the bus station.This is old news.

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 3:40 pm

  433. Yes, I knew that much. I wanted to know if anyone knew what the “various places were specifcally.”

    Comment by Dreamer — April 29, 2008 @ 3:43 pm

  434. That is what I think too,Justice4. I think she was asking him when she came back the next day to catch the bus could she leave her car there overnight.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 3:48 pm

  435. Dreamer,

    The question about the movements of Maria’s car was asked of Captain Sutherland and here’s his reply in case you missed it: “I can’t add anything about the movement of the car.”

    Comment by me too — April 29, 2008 @ 3:52 pm

  436. justice4all Says:

    April 29th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
    “As far as Cesar and Maria leaving to make a life together, I think Cesar would have thought about the practicalities involved. For one, the lack of a job.”

    What if they went to Mexico? His family is supposed to have businesses and money so he could have worked for them. I am sure they could get him any alias that he needed.

    We never hear about military deserters being hunted down like we do if they are charged with a serious crime. Some of these guys have gone AWOL for years and years and never have been found so I don’t think much search effort if made to find them.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 3:55 pm

  437. Drake – Agree. My understand is also that the Mexican athorities would not search for CL even with a warrant for his arrest for murder. They would have to “come upon” him during a stop for something else. There was speculation that the road block that he surrendered at was set up there on purpose between where he was living and the Internet cafe on pupose.

    Comment by Dreamer — April 29, 2008 @ 4:01 pm

  438. Curious,
    When you said “I saw LE’s trucks back there”, maybe you should review the photos again. The investigative team were NOT parked in the Laurean backyard, but rather on the other side of the fence on the neighbors side.

    The slats that were removed from the main studs that are still standing are not wide enough for a vehicle to drive through, unless it was an ATV!

    Comment by Sentry — April 29, 2008 @ 4:02 pm

  439. Who was supposed to sell her car for her after she left? And could the possible sale of the car and the money she would get to live on, be the ‘plan’ that fell through? Whose number was on the for sale sign in the back window? Could she have stuck around on sat for the prospective buyer?

    Comment by Dreamer the troublemaking BITCH — April 29, 2008 @ 4:03 pm

  440. Ooops, looks like SOMEONE up there forgot to change their ever changing childish posting moniker :)

    Comment by Sentry — April 29, 2008 @ 4:07 pm

  441. Dreamer, I also read they will not extradite back if the person would be going before a military tribunal. I don’t think they think being a deserter is egregious enough of an offense to go to all the trouble of the extradition process.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 4:11 pm

  442. And here she had her playground all to herself today and unable to get any attention. Naughty feathered chick, isn’t she?

    Comment by CarpeDiem — April 29, 2008 @ 4:11 pm

  443. AnnDaniel, my thing is, some has said that they thought the charring came from the bonfire that was over the grave and not direct fire. So I am trying to figure out if this is correct and the majority of the charring was on the left side, then how did her right foot and hand get charred off? Another way to look at this is, the ME said that she was wrapped in a comfort and Capt Sutherland said in one of the question threads that he did not believe that it was a baby comforter, that he thought it was larger than that. Now if that much could be seen about the comforter, how did her feet and hands get charred off, and how did the rest of her body get charred so bad? We know that clothes, comforters and plastic bags does not take as much heat as the human flesh to destory, so it just does not make sense to me.
    Curious, I find it interesting that the side that was up was the same side that she received the head tramua on. Also IMO, if it was Cesar and another guy putting maria’s body in the pit, then they could have picked her up with no problem. Let’s say that the wheelbarrow was used, then the body could have just been dumped in there, but someone had to pick the body up and put it in the wheelbarrow and most does not believe that Cesar could have done this on his own. Now if it was two females or Cesar and a female then it might be difficult for them to pick the body up, but still how did whoever get the body from point A to point B?

    Comment by LTH — April 29, 2008 @ 4:13 pm

  444. LTH, I don’t think the wheelbarrow was used except maybe to move the dirt around that was put into the makeshift grave. It is a small wheelbarrow and if he had her body in it then it would be top heavy and spilling out and hard to maneuver because when lifted only one wheel is touching the ground. I think he used the comforter to drag her and needed no help.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 4:19 pm

  445. Ok, I went back and reviewd the pictures and I guess I was mistaken The medical examiners truck was outside the fence.

    LTH-
    The side up was the side she recieved the head injury, so could it have been a burst open from the heat or a bashing from the shovel? or throwing a cinderblock on her?

    but then how did she die? a beating and then strangulation?

    Comment by curious — April 29, 2008 @ 4:38 pm

  446. Drake Garrett,
    I agree with you about the use of the wheelbarrow. Also, it could have been used to transfer the cinder blocks from his truck in the driveway to the backyard upon returning from purchasing them at Lowe’s.

    Comment by Sentry — April 29, 2008 @ 4:42 pm

  447. About the body–

    I think some people may not be taking into consideration that the body ALSO had quite a bit of DECOMPOSITION – not just CHARRING. Human skin decomposes fairly quickly, especially when exposed to heat. I understand that in Dec and Jan it wasn’t all that hot in J’ville, but also keep in mind that each time there was a ‘bonfire’ (which I heard was 3 times), the ground (earth/dirt, etc.) retains the heat from the fire long after the fire is extinquished. The retained underground heat would cause the body to decompose at a much faster rate than if she were just buried without having ‘Bonfires’ over where her body was buried. Even in ‘normal’ decomposition, a month of being buried in such a shallow grave would have caused some serious decomposition.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 29, 2008 @ 7:12 pm

  448. Still, if the heat from the bonfire was hot enough to charr off her right foot and hand then why wasn’t the right side of her body badly charred. I don’t remember anything in the ME report saying a badly decomposed body, but I will go back and read it again.

    Comment by LTH — April 29, 2008 @ 7:19 pm

  449. LTH,
    The Autopsy says:
    Body Condition Charred
    Rigor Charred and decomposed
    Livor Charred and decomposed
    Hair Charred
    Eyes Charred and decomposed

    Comment by Sentry — April 29, 2008 @ 7:27 pm

  450. Thank Sentry, I went back and read the report again. I have discussed it with my husband and he is like me; for the body to be that charred, how did a comfort, fragments of her clothing and a plastic bag with baby clothing make it through. Yes the comfort was partially charred, and the clothes, and the plastic bag was melted, but he agreed with me, that at least if the plastic bag had been in the pit the whole time, there should not have been nothing left up the bag. It will interesting to find out how the LE think the charring of the body was done.

    Comment by LTH — April 29, 2008 @ 7:44 pm

  451. Also the longer a body is left to decompose the more the skin will blacken and look charred even when it hasn’t been charred by heat.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 29, 2008 @ 7:53 pm

  452. LTH-

    I think that the only parts of the comforter that were found with the body was probably the part that was on her right side.

    I think the bag containing the baby clothes was probably put into the grave before she was, therefore, her right side would be laying on the bag of baby clothes.

    The right foot being charred away is a mystery to me too.

    As far as her right hand being charred away, I think it is likely that when she was put into the grave, it is very likely that her right arm/hand was not under her, but kinda ‘wrapped’ across the front of her body which would place the hand ‘laying’ on her left arm (closer to the source of the heat-the bonfire).

    This is IMO.

    Comment by LAnVB — April 29, 2008 @ 8:09 pm

  453. How is is that Cesar ended up at Camp Lejeune? If his parents are from Nevada and he lived with them before enlisting wouldn’t he be a west coast Marine? Stationed at Camp Pendelton? I am confused about that one. Anyone care to help me understand this? I know it doesn’t really have to do with what you all are talking about I just think it is weird.

    Comment by Question — April 29, 2008 @ 9:22 pm

  454. Military personnell do not get their duty assignments based on their home town location or where their parents live. They are sent where they are needed.

    Comment by Cassi — April 29, 2008 @ 10:03 pm

  455. You are sent to bootcamp based on where your Home of Record is. For Cesar, he would have been sent to San Diego for bootcamp. Maria went to Parris Island, SC as that is where all females go for bootcamp regardless of where they live. I think the Mississippi River is the deciding factor-if you live west of the Mississippi you go to San Diego and east of that you go to Parris Island. While you are at your MOS school, you do get to fill out a “wish list”. They tell you several places you could get stationed and you write down your top 3–but that doesn’t mean you’ll get it. You go where you are needed.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 30, 2008 @ 7:35 am

  456. Curious, the cocyx bone was intact which shows there was no strangulation.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 30, 2008 @ 7:36 am

  457. As it was so rudely pointed out at the shark tank, it is not the cocyx bone. I misspoke and didn’t double check before I posted. It is the hyoid bone that was still intact. I did not mean to post incorrect information.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 30, 2008 @ 8:46 am

  458. Has anyone ver seen a wedding ring on Cesar in any of his pictures? Could he have taken the ring off and that’s why Maria didn’t know at first he was married?

    Could the Laureans have been getting ready to sell their house with all the painting and replacing of rotting fences and the selling of furniture?Could they have talked about divorce?

    Comment by curious — April 30, 2008 @ 9:49 am

  459. Yes, in one of the casual photos he is wearing his wedding ring. How could she not know? She worked right in his unit along side of him. Especially if she was interested and attracted to him? His coworkers knew he was married and had a little girl because he talked about his daughter often.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 30, 2008 @ 9:55 am

  460. According to Lisa, he never wore his wedding band at work and had no pictures of his wife on his desk.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 30, 2008 @ 9:58 am

  461. Well maybe he told her he was seperated and getting divorced then????that he and the wife no longer lived together ? that he only saw the wife when he visited his daughter at her sistrs house?that could explain Maria trotting over to his plac,maybe she didnt think Christinia lived there anymore and when she got there she found out otherwise.

    Comment by curious — April 30, 2008 @ 10:03 am

  462. The fact the Laureans could have been seperated would explain why they didn’t go to the Christmas party together.Christina may have gone becaause she was hoping to run into him there and try and rekindle their relationship.

    Comment by curious — April 30, 2008 @ 10:13 am

  463. I really believe the Laureans marriage was OVER.

    Comment by curious — April 30, 2008 @ 10:15 am

  464. But Curious, I don’t think they were separated any of this time. I think she remained by his side through thick or thin from May 07 on. Sheriff Brown stressed that Christina lived in the home with Cesar. They had neighbors in their home and they were painting the living room area and she told them they would be painting the garage after Christmas.

    If he told her he was separated then she still would know he was married and if she heard him talk about his daughter surely she would have asked him “are you divorced or married?” From what we know now it seems he didn’t have other affairs with other women but if he did and was married that would be all over that unit. It is just so hard for me to believe that everyone there kept it a big secret that he was married. All it would take is one coworker to tell her when she asked that yes, he is married and has a little girl. It wouldn’t surprise me if Christina came there on other occasions and dropped in for 5-10 minutes to see him occasionally.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — April 30, 2008 @ 10:28 am

  465. I don’t think neither was ready to toss in the towel on their marriage during that time frame, but, the marriage probably would’ve not lasted in the long run.

    Comment by Nehi — April 30, 2008 @ 10:30 am

  466. Being in the same unit, if he were single, he’d be in the barracks. I wonder if Maria never questioned why she didn’t see him there. Or did she just think he stayed with friends off base as she did? I’m not sure when they started dating. I’ve heard a couple different stories. One is December 06 but one of the friends-Jenna Renner I believe-said that Maria had a boyfriend and that they broke up in March 07.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 30, 2008 @ 10:43 am

  467. You don’t have to be in the barracks if you are single.You have to be married to own a home and live off base in the Marines, or live with a roomate off base? come on. SGT Durham was single and he lived off base.Anne ,your statement is completely UNTRUE.

    Comment by curious — April 30, 2008 @ 11:03 am

  468. Good point AnnDaniel. Knowing he lived out in town was almost a dead give away that he was probably married.

    Comment by Nehi — April 30, 2008 @ 11:04 am

  469. I don’t think Christina had thrown in the towel on her marriage. Especially after Christina called Maria the B word and said to Maria, why are you doing this to us.

    “Lisa” also said that Christina was the type that no one was going to take her man.

    Comment by Sandy — April 30, 2008 @ 11:05 am

  470. Let’s see if I can explain it better then.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 30, 2008 @ 11:08 am

  471. Doesn’t a single Marine have to get permission from his/her command to move off base?

    Comment by Sandy — April 30, 2008 @ 11:10 am

  472. Curious, AnnDaniels statement is not completely untrue. A single Cpl living off base as a brown bagger is not uncommon, however, he would still have to maintain a room in the barracks and he would still have to be present for field day formations. A boot Cpl obtaining permission from the MC to receive BAQ on right (without a family) is not common. Now a seasoned Sgt would most likely not have a problem obtaining BAQ approval to live off base.

    Comment by Nehi — April 30, 2008 @ 11:13 am

  473. As a single Marine you are given a barracks room. You are to maintain that room. There are single Marines-I’ve only seen it with the Sergeant rank-that will get approval to move off base. I have seen that happen. Once they get that approval to move off base, they will then start to get paid BAH and they will check out of their barracks room and turn in their linens, not be required to go to field day, etc. However, if you do not have permission to live off base you have to maintain a barracks room. For example, one of my roommates lived with her boyfriend out in town. She did not get paid BAH. She was required to maintain a barracks room. Not sure how else to clarify my post. But what I posted was not untrue.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 30, 2008 @ 11:14 am

  474. Thank you Nehi! Exactly what I was trying to say.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — April 30, 2008 @ 11:15 am

  475. E-5 an above can live off base if single…
    E-5 SGT
    E-4 CORPORAL
    E-3 LANCE CORPORAL

    this is interesting….

    It’s no secret that some service members marry for two reasons other than love: No more barracks living and more money. Some Marines refer to them as “contract marriages.”

    Cesar married christina few in aug 12, he joined camp leguene in apr, so less than 5 months after he got to Jacksonville..was it love or CONVIENIENCE?

    Comment by curious — April 30, 2008 @ 12:10 pm

  476. Dear AnnDaniel, don’t worry about saying the wrong bone, I am sorry anybody was rude and nasty. I saw your name as “shark tank” and zipped to it, I left in a big hurry!!!!! We are not going to bite off any heads, we are all trying to get at the truth. Your posts are really thoughtful.

    Comment by justice4all — April 30, 2008 @ 12:20 pm

  477. I drove by the Meadow Trail home this afternoon and didn’t notice any changes to the property except that the grass has grown in spots to over 2 feet tall. There are no stickers affixed to the front door and there remains what appears to be a new phonebook wrapped in plastic laying on the ground near the mailbox.

    The Alander home (101 Meadow) is still for sale and the grass on that property is also high.

    Despite what accolades either property may have received in past years, I doubt the Halfmoon Garden Club will be considering either property for “Yard of the Year.”

    Comment by Mike McHugh — May 1, 2008 @ 7:40 pm

  478. Mike, it could be a while before we see those properties sell.

    Comment by R356 — May 1, 2008 @ 7:50 pm

  479. R356: Sure I agree, especially 103 Meadow Trail given its recent history and since it is not on the market. Believe it or not the Jacksonville real estate market, while softer than normal, is not as bad as other parts of the USA.

    We continue to hear that some 10,000 extra troops and their dependents are heading to Camp Lejeune. Some, we believe are already here. The base housing is VERY tight, so these newly arriving Marines and Sailors will need housing.

    The Half Moon community where Laurean lived is close enough to CL and has affordable housing.

    (Note to realtor marketing 101 Meadow Trail: cut the grass, repair the garage window and perhaps mend the fence between 101 and 103. Attempting to sell a home whose view from the master bedroom peers directly through a gaping hole in a neighbor’s fence looking directly towards what remains of a fire pit is not exactly a strong Selling Point.)

    Comment by Mike McHugh — May 1, 2008 @ 8:13 pm

  480. Mike,
    I found it humorous to see the 101 Meadow Trial listed with this photo, obviously when the Alanders still lived there………..lovely no :x
    http://www.realtor.com/realestate/jacksonville-nc-28546-1098159818/

    Comment by Sentry — May 1, 2008 @ 8:33 pm

  481. IF the Laureans house was to go up for sale, would they have to tell the interested party that a murder was commited in the house?

    Comment by de — May 1, 2008 @ 8:36 pm

  482. de:
    Great question.

    I spoke with a licensed and reputable real estate agent this evening and asked this agent that very question. The answer to your question is yes. The first sale of this house must disclose to the buying party that a murder occurred on the property. After that, meaning, when the next owner decides to sell, there need not be any more disclosure about the Lauterbach murder taking place on the property.

    And despite what you might think, properties where criminal and suspicious activity have been known to occur, have been reoccuppied by new residents. (Heck, some family even moved into the White House after the Clintons lived there for 8 years…..just kiddin’!!!)

    Locally, the house where Bullen brothers lived in Hunters Creek was resold 6 after the murder (read Lindell’s cold case story about this murder). nationally, Sharon Tate’s estate in California was resold after Charles Manson’s disciples killed her inside. And more recently, Nicole Brown Simpson’s condo was resold after O.J. killed her and Ron Goodman on the walkway leading to the condo.

    Comment by Mike McHugh — May 1, 2008 @ 9:00 pm

  483. de,
    I think that would be up to the Realtor’s ethics, don’t think it’s mandatory. The only way I can see the Laurean home being sold is if Christina defaults and lets it go back as it’s listed in both their names.

    Comment by Sentry — May 1, 2008 @ 9:01 pm

  484. They don’t have to “say” that a murder was commited for the most obvious reason that there has been no trial or plea of such.

    But even if there is, techinically it does not have to be disclosed per NCREC regulations. However, NOT disclosing it could lead to a lawsuit and subsequently changing the State’s regulations concerning the issue.

    Homicide is not a structural flaw so it is not required for disclosure in NC. Although a buyer may consider the information of “compelling interest.”

    Comment by Anonymous — May 1, 2008 @ 9:09 pm

  485. Mike,
    Sorry, I posted not seeing your reply come up!

    Comment by Sentry — May 1, 2008 @ 9:09 pm

  486. Anonymous,
    Thank you also for you answer!

    Comment by Sentry — May 1, 2008 @ 9:12 pm

  487. Mike, if it “must be disclosed in the first sale” then it would have to be disclosed in every sale after that. Not sure what reputable agent means in Onslow County.

    But I have a legal expert in NC real estate that begs to differ with your reputable agent. So might the NCREC officials. NC requires FULL DISCLOSURE.

    IMO, murder is not on the list at this point in time.

    ETA: Sentry, ITA with your post!

    Comment by Anonymous — May 1, 2008 @ 9:14 pm

  488. Sentry, We must have crossed posts. Sorry! You had it right. Here is your post I was agreeing with.
    ==============================

    Sentry Says:

    May 1st, 2008 at 9:01 pm
    de,
    I think that would be up to the Realtor’s ethics, don’t think it’s mandatory. The only way I can see the Laurean home being sold is if Christina defaults and lets it go back as it’s listed in both their names.

    Comment by Anonymous — May 1, 2008 @ 9:19 pm

  489. curious, you have me more than curious. Some of your posts are enlightening. Some entertaining. Help a sista out here, plz

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Snipped from upthread posts:

    this is a 24 hour trip getting into El Paso 11:45am central time. there is no way I believe Maria could survive this trip being on a cramped bumpy bus for a full day and sleeping on it overnight. I couldn’t even do it and I am not 8 mo’s pregnant.BRUTAL.Could she even fit into the bathroom?
    I don’t think her destination was El Paso. That was a DECOY IMO

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I think she left her car perhaps because she wasnt able to drive far. at least on the bus she could stand up and walk around to keep her ankles from exploding.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Maria wasn’t going very far on the bus but yet could not drive ‘not very far’

    Comment by Thelma Lou — May 3, 2008 @ 11:51 am

  490. Misinformation? Like these hilites?

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Curious say:
    I am disgusted with the wave of disinformation in some of the above posts. some people need to read up and get a clue.

    Curious say:
    they said there were distinctive marks on her skull like those made by the claw of a crowbar.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I SAY:

    I am very Curious who “they” is? All we have is some hyped up media reports, IIRC. There is NOTHING to substantiate that she died from blunt force trauma much less this new addition regarding the “distinctive marks.” Unless I missed a BIG break, No LEO or Military official has confirmed (or denied) C.O.D. SB did say that the throat slash was post mortem. I am not arguing that she died from a blow to the head. Just that it has not been detailed by officials the way you have. I apologize in advance if I missed all that. I enjoy your posts.

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    Curious say:

    Weren’t the initial reports that Maria recieved wire transfers from her family? Maybe it was uncle Peter because her mom thought she had been kidnapped…I think Mary was kept completely in the dark.

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    I SAY:

    NO. That was a theory outlined in a SW application. Often the source of a major misinformation rumor. The SW app was using that theory because it was assumed Maria would need assistance to staying missing & out of contact with her support system

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    Curious say:

    if her ID/ATM card was found in the bushes in raleigh then why is it so far fetched to think cesar also dumped her ph at the gate?

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    I SAY:

    Since we all need to read up and be informed, I am just saying that you are wrong here. It was found in the bushes IN DURHAM the day after CL left J’ville. Durham is 2 stops beyond Raleigh bus station. One stop after Morrisville

    Comment by Thelma Lou — May 3, 2008 @ 12:11 pm

  491. Many people think they know a lot more than they really do on this site. Comments like, “Since we all need to read up and be informed.” or “This is old news, ” are posted by people who are themselves misinformed and making assumptions. I don’t understand the hateful replies. The shark tank should be taken down. It is sexual harrassment against women at its highest form. Connected to a case about such a violent murder of a women, it is in the worst taste possible. I cannot believe how people are blaming the victim. No wonder women don’t report rape. And people are blaming the other woman related in the case. I guess this is good example of why the violence against women in this county and the murder rate of women and pregnant women in the US continues to rise. People think they deserve it and it is their fault. I started to read this site to get information. I have found it so sad to read.

    Comment by Anonymous — May 3, 2008 @ 9:41 pm

  492. Dear Anonymous. I have read with interest your well thought out reply. I am unaware of what’s going on in “The Tank,” having looked there the other day because I saw a poster from here was making a comment (little side bar tells you who’s replying to what,) and having beaten a speedy retreat. However, as far as blaming the victim goes, I have a little theory about that, it crops up wherever a violent act occurs. Many people think like this….”Well, since women are being beaten and raped at Food Lion at 2am, I just won’t go there at that hour, AND, of course, I am dressed modestly with conservative makeup. Oh, I’m just fine nothing much will happen to me if I don’t PUT MYSELF IN HARM’S WAY, after all, the way some of these modern young girls dress, it’s no wonder things happen!!!!!” I’m afraid, Anonymous, that when people are bothered by something they seemingly can’t control they look for “reasons” that it happened so that they can feel safer themselves and feel reassured that it won’t happen to them. In Maria’s case I am not sure what the “sharks” in the tank are saying, but on this site, and the newspaper site (before they changed it recently to the new system) most people are struggling, really struggling to make sense of what we have been told. All the evidence is being looked at and sifted through in our minds to see if we can come up with a good theory. I believe, just taking my own horror-stricken reactions, that most people are so truly deep-down horrified that they want to understand everything there is to understand to find out just WHY this senseless act occured, and, very importantly, WHO did it. By “the other woman related in the case” I wonder if you mean Christina? I am very open to real evidence, but I also have never leaped onto the bandwagon of Christina being anything more than a “cooperating witness.” I can barely imagine the strain she has been living under. Don’t let a few hasty-tempered comments get to you. I have noticed a certain critical feel from some of the postings, but people have different feelings and different things going on in their lives. Often those critical feelings vanish after a couple of postings. I am waiting for a bit more info. Either we shall hear about the Mexicans’ “guest” and what he plans to do as far as coming up here, or we shall get those warrants. I think it is upward of 100 pages. They will tell us quite a lot. I think ANY assault against ANYONE, particularly against women and/or children ought to be reported and prosecuted vigorously. In Maria’s case what seems to be such a big hurdle is that she didn’t report the rape(s) until about 2 months later, and then semed inconsistent in her reports. She did have a uniformed victim’s advocate and a civilian victim’s advocate so she did have someone to turn to. The uniformed advocate worked in her (new) work site. I really feel the military did ALL they COULD do given the nature of what they were hearing, BUT, it wasn’t all that MIGHT have been done if they had something a bit more concrete to go on. I am deeply troubled that a young pregnant mom was beaten down, it is difficult to even think of, but I am also interested in real justice. Whoever, and howevermany need all to come to justice too.

    Comment by justice4all — May 4, 2008 @ 12:24 am

  493. the shark tank was put up so ppl didnt ruin the pages like this one. some of us want to hear about info and the thoughts from others. You have ppl come hear and post that are rude or want to start a fight when they need to go to the tank. The daily news has you register now so they come hear because they can be hateful and mean and they dont have to register. People please take it to the tank if you want to be be rude and mean, if you dont like what someone has said there is way to be nice about it. Not everyone is going to agree BUT PLEASE STOP BEING SO RUDE TO OTHERS.

    Comment by de — May 4, 2008 @ 8:18 am

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  504. I still think he planned to murder her, CL convinced himself that he could make it look like Maria went AWOL. And if that failed, he would claim suicide. Remember HE CUT HER throat after she died, CL had thought this threw … This was planned, I do not believe it was a crime of opportunity.

    I think CL thought people would believe Maria went AWOL and the Military would not look for a body etc…
    Even though the initial reports state Marie took personal items from her apartment,
    Those items were not Items a Pregnant woman would take, if she was leaving for good. ONE change of clothing and some Make Up is not enough…to me it sounds like she was not coming home before she went to the xmas party she told her mom she had to go to….

    CL was also driving his Father-In-Laws car that day, and he barrowed a crow bar… seems like all the evidence was barrowed … sounds planned

    I read somewhere that she had with drawn the $700 to pay her rent, she needed to pay Sgt D before he left on pre deployment training.
    I think the note she left at her home was written under duress and Marie, having already been victimized by CL and survived,, thought she could manage the situation and played along,,,,, never thinking he would kill her… and a pregnant woman would naturally think of her child and avoid a physical attack…..

    Is there evidence that would not make the above plausible,,, If so please let me know

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