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Court Street Shuffle: May 12

Lindell Kay | Cesar Laurean,Court Street Shuffle,HOME PAGE | Monday, May 12th, 2008

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- Sheriff’s Sgt. Bob Ides coming out of the Club Mickey’s injunction hearing. The owner of the club has agreed to close it down for good.

- The Capital Defenders Office has taken Wally Paramore off the Cesar Laurean case and assigned military lawyer Dick McNeil.

- The courthouse was so full today that they had to hold small claims court upstairs at the Sheriff’s Department. I understand that is getting to be a reoccurring problem.

57 Comments »

  1. Okay Lindell and Mike. What do you all know about the new lawyer?

    Comment by KH — May 12, 2008 @ 8:02 pm

  2. why a military lawyer? What happen to paremore? come on fill us in. When is cesar coming home?

    Comment by de — May 12, 2008 @ 8:22 pm

  3. The lawyer isn’t in the military now. He is a retired major. I believe he specializes in military law. That is all that I have been able to find out about him.

    Comment by KH — May 12, 2008 @ 8:23 pm

  4. Is this the same attorney associated with the Vaughn Jones double-murder trial?

    Comment by Sentry — May 12, 2008 @ 8:37 pm

  5. Yes Sentry, it’s the same Dick McNeil.

    Comment by Sandy — May 12, 2008 @ 8:54 pm

  6. Lindell and Mike, I was looking to see what trial proceedings McNeil had handled in the civillian courts and from his own case representation, it doesn’t look like much as far as the initial trial process….

    http://www.militarylawoffice.com/success

    I hope you guys will try and find out if the Laureans HIRED him or whether the USMC is sending him in….shudder here ;) .

    He looks strong in appellate experience and military courts tho.

    We’re all salivating for something new to chew on. Here’s hoping you get some follow-up. Thanks for all you do and have a nice evening.

    Comment by FoxyBrown — May 12, 2008 @ 10:21 pm

  7. Thank you Mike McHugh for that excellent information. Since Mr. McNeil is a civilian military defense attorney I presume he specializes in defending military persons who are accused of a crime. My next question is: Does he defend in ONLY military courts, or does he defend military persons in ANY and ALL courts? Could this be a foreshadowing of Cesar’s being passed back to the Marine Corps?

    Comment by justice4all — May 13, 2008 @ 12:35 am

  8. Foxy, I went to that site you gave and it is impressive. I think those cases looked as though they were civilian ones because each said, “United States v …..”

    Comment by justice4all — May 13, 2008 @ 12:54 am

  9. Foxy-this new lawyer was ASSIGNED,not hired by Laurean. Just like Wally was ASSIGNED to handle Cesar’s case by the state capitol defenders office.

    It looks to me like the MC has hinted Cesar WILL be court martialed. Now whether it is for the murder or his discharge proceedings is unclear. I guess the layer can defend him for the murder charge in civilian court and also in military court for his crimes there.

    civilian court
    murder
    grand theft auto
    card theft
    card fraud
    desecration of a corpse
    unlawful disposal of a corpse
    etc

    federal
    unlawful flight

    military
    desertion
    behaviour unbecoming an officer
    witness tampering in an official proceeding
    adultery
    lying to investigators
    treason against a fellow marine

    Comment by curious — May 13, 2008 @ 7:06 am

  10. Well considering Cesar isn’t an officer, the behavior unbecoming wouldn’t be a charge. Perhaps unbecoming of a Marine but not officer. Unless the baby is proven to be his you can’t charge him for adultery. I’m not sure where you’re getting treason, witness tampering…but whatever he will be charged with will be under the UCMJ. And I have never seen a charge for grand theft auto, unlawful disposal of a corpse or desecration of a corpse.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — May 13, 2008 @ 7:14 am

  11. Wondering if the change was made as part of the extradition deal? Logic dictates that something had to prompt the change in lawyers.

    If i recall correctly per the extradition treaty between Mexico and the U.S., Mexico won’t extradite people who were going to be prosecuted for a PURELY military offense, which seems to include Cesar’s desertion. It is my understanding that the civilians are prosecuting all the other offenses listed on the indictment from January that relate to the murder.

    So, I guess my question is does the USMC have to take desertion off the table for the extradition to happen? Lindell and Mike, do you guys have any info on this?

    Comment by KH — May 13, 2008 @ 7:28 am

  12. He could concievably be charged with witness tampering for having contact with and killing Maria who was allegedly going to testify against him.

    Justice4all, on McNeil’s history and success page that Foxy linked, look at the full case citations and you’ll see they are M.J. (Military Justice) cases for the branches of the Army, Air Force and Navy-Marine.

    Comment by GlowWorm — May 13, 2008 @ 8:11 am

  13. I would like to know if the Laurean family seeked counsel outside the military IF this attorney was hired by them; and otherwise the things I am hearing seem to point to what some call a ringer for the USMC. I hope they are wrong.

    I think this trial will ultimately be getting much attention and should show all that is right about our justice system and the right to a fair trial for anyone accused of a crime as well as justice for the victim of what we are told was allegedly a heinous murder. While I realize we pray for all trials to show that, often it’s lost in the process anymore and you have to really dig to find it when we have jurors determining findings on emotion. JMO tho.

    Comment by FoxyBrown — May 13, 2008 @ 8:22 am

  14. Lindell posted that The Capital Defender’s office assigned him.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — May 13, 2008 @ 8:29 am

  15. It remains unclear whether that is information obtained from a roster or if he actually spoke with a representative of that office, so I’m not so sure that means it couldn’t be a move made from the outside myself. Hopefully we’ll hear something concrete later.

    Comment by FoxyBrown — May 13, 2008 @ 8:42 am

  16. You say “things you are hearing”….what does that mean? Are you implying you have “inside” scoop? Or are you just going based off your opinions and assumptions?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — May 13, 2008 @ 8:48 am

  17. So if Laurean’s parent’s have money then why would they go through the Capital Defender’s Office?

    Comment by Sandy — May 13, 2008 @ 9:04 am

  18. What is going on in Mexico that caused the change in lawyers?

    Comment by KH — May 13, 2008 @ 9:10 am

  19. I don’t think his parents have that much spare money where they’d be able to or want to permanently dispose of it for trial and appeal.

    It could be Laurean asked for another attorney or maybe Paramore became unavailable for whatever reason.

    Comment by GlowWorm — May 13, 2008 @ 9:21 am

  20. Bob you look so nice in your suit and tie!

    Comment by MG — May 13, 2008 @ 9:29 am

  21. I thought private defense attorneys can be pulled into a public defender’s status by the courts. They volunteer their time for public defender’s fees, and are available for some cases when asked.

    I don’t know if I’m saying that right to understand what I am getting at.

    Comment by Glitter Glitter — May 13, 2008 @ 9:36 am

  22. Does anyone have information that says the Laurean family went to the Capital Defenders Office to start with? Cesar can’t claim their assets or lack thereof. Who did that? If my memory serves me well, it was perhaps someone affiliated with the office of the DA. Does that mean that whoever did it before is doing this now?

    I have yet to see what prompted this change and the wording was vague, just that it had taken place from what I read.

    Lindell stated – The Capital Defenders Office has taken Wally Paramore off the Cesar Laurean case and assigned military lawyer Dick McNeil.

    Comment by FoxyBrown — May 13, 2008 @ 9:44 am

  23. I am somewhat perplexed by this move. McNeil seems to have much more experience in POST CONVICTIONS than as an active trial lawyer. Which one has more experience doing actual trial work in the Guilty phase over the sentencing phase?

    We heard rumblings that Paramore was going to Mexico and somehow that got stop. It tends to make me feel there are things working behind the scene.

    Is there even going to be a State trial or just a sentencing phase and this is where McNeil comes in because he is known to do post convictions where he can represent him then AND also keep abreast of any appellate issues and make sure it it duly notated by making proper motions?

    It just makes no sense that it would be connected to the military case because if the military tried him for anything he would be given counsel by the USMC/JAG.

    I have heard that Laurean’s family is certainly financially fit enough to see he has a qualified attorney to represent him. Even this new status may all change once he gets back on American soil. If Laurean thinks there is a conflict of interest he can petition the court to have his present lawyer removed and another one selected to take their place.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — May 13, 2008 @ 9:48 am

  24. FoxyBrown, you asked “..IF this attorney was hired by them..” which prompted me to ask if Laurean’s parents had money why did or would they go through the Capital Defenders Office. I would think if they had money, they would retain a lawyer privately not through the CDO.

    I’m under the impression that the CDO appoints a provisional attorney to conduct a preliminary investigation, determine if the defendent is indigent and needs to be appointed counsel and to protect the rights of the defendant.

    Could it be the change was needed since Laurean is a Marine?

    Comment by Sandy — May 13, 2008 @ 10:17 am

  25. Drake, when you are up on charges in the military, you have the choice to use a JAG lawyer which is available at no cost or you have the option of hiring a civilian attorney at your cost.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — May 13, 2008 @ 12:00 pm

  26. Drake, what level of financial fitness do the Laurean’s have? They satisfied a hospital lien not too long ago and sold their home recently. Do you know how much equity they had in the home and if they turned any profit after satifiying one or more mortgages?

    Would you tell us more about Paramore going to Mexico and how it got stopped? I’m only aware of “someone” going to Mexico per Lindell Kay.

    Mr. McNeil appears to be qualified to represent Laurean.

    If any attorney knows of a conflict of interest, they would be the one to notify the court. Laurean would not have access to the attorney’s client records to know of any conflict of interest.

    Comment by GlowWorm — May 13, 2008 @ 12:10 pm

  27. Dear GlowWorm, thanks I will take a closer look.

    Comment by justice4all — May 13, 2008 @ 12:15 pm

  28. AnnDaniel, I see you are well informed about military issues, so maybe you could help me with something. I have a ‘layman’s’ understanding of courts martial, (they hold their own courts and have the power to sentence you,) but have always had a nagging feeling of concern because EVERYONE who is a “decision maker” is military, and has a rank. Just suppose, for example, that someone was court martialled and the defence lawyer (also military) was very aggressive and convincing and got an acquital, but the judge, who outranked the lawyer, did not like the verdict. Could it affect the career and/or promotions of the lawyer? Is the judge ONLY a judge, or does he do another type of work when there are no cases? I have always had the feeling that it has the potential to be like the communist countries of yesteryear…sure you can vote, we all vote, just ONE candidate, though. Could you help me to understand just HOW the courts martial work, and what is the main difference, if any, in the actual process. Do they allow lengthy appeals and suchlike? Thanks.

    Comment by justice4all — May 13, 2008 @ 12:26 pm

  29. Rumor was out a few weeks ago re the idea of Paramore going to Mexico being shot down.

    I’d like to know where McNeil came from and who requested him.

    Glow, can you expound on yuor paragraph referencing client records?

    Comment by CarpeDiem — May 13, 2008 @ 12:28 pm

  30. I just wanted to add something here. Even if Cesar’s parents were the richest people on the American continent it would not affect Cesar’s financial status. I think, at last count, it was something like 10 pesos or $1 USD. Because this case is grievous in every way, I want to see real justice done. That means, in my mind, making sure that Cesar gets the absolute best representation that is available to him. When this verdict is in I would like to think it was “completed,” and I would like to feel satisfied that justice had been done. That means, I would like to hear/see/read the charges, read, know, and understand the evidence, related facts, motive, circumstances, understand as much as I could the circumstances surrounding the event, and be able to weigh all the legal arguments and finally understand the jury’s verdict. The scales of justice are supposed to be balanced. If Cesar does not have truly skilled and appropriate legal counsel there could always be nagging doubts.

    Comment by justice4all — May 13, 2008 @ 12:35 pm

  31. There WILL be a courts martial to formally discharge Cesar from the USMC. I am confident he will be DISHONOURABLY discharged and have his rank reduced down to E-1(private). this formally strips him of all pay and benefits such as the GI bill and use of the VA hospital system. He will have to return all USMC property.

    this is my thinking.
    treason-he killed a fellow marine DURING WARTIME
    desertion may be reduced to UA, because desertion during wartime is punishable by death and the mexicans may not extradite him if he faces those charges. regardless,Cesar faces some charges from the USMC. they have to charge him with something to formally DISCHARGE him. he is entitled to his due process through a courts martial.

    WHY ARE THERE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PUBLIC DEFENDER?the lawyer was assigned to Cesar BEFORE he was even caught.his family had NOTHING to do with it. Cesar may have requested a military attorney after his capture. wally may have gone to mexico and met with him and agreed to step aside for the 2nd attorney.

    Comment by curious — May 13, 2008 @ 12:51 pm

  32. Justice I share that sentiment too.

    Comment by CarpeDiem — May 13, 2008 @ 12:52 pm

  33. Curious it’s postings like you just put up that should make anyone question authority. Just sayin’

    Comment by CarpeDiem — May 13, 2008 @ 12:57 pm

  34. CarpeDiem, re client records was in response to Drake’s comment “If Laurean thinks there is a conflict of interest he can petition the court to have his present lawyer removed and another one selected to take their place.”

    Because an attorney can’t expect Laurean to know who all they represent, it’s the attorney’s responsibility first off to check his own client files or data base for any COI. The attorney should not have knowledge of a COI and not divulge that then wait for his client to “think” there might be conflict of interest to be investigated, and if proven true, be granted another attorney. This is my opinion.

    Comment by GlowWorm — May 13, 2008 @ 2:09 pm

  35. Cesar may be eligible to spend SOME time at Leavensworth, before he goes to a civilain prison,and that is what I think he will fight the most. He knows he will be killed there by other Marines.

    Comment by curious — May 13, 2008 @ 2:29 pm

  36. I don’t think you have to undergo a court martial to be discharged. I could be wrong. But I worked with someone who was discharged and he was never court martialed…only NJP’d.

    Curious…death penalty for desertion is the MAX punishment…doesn’t mean that he will get that. There are other punishments for desertion. Treason has nothing to do with killing a fellow Marine….at least IMO.

    Here is a good website that details the UCMJ and military law. I don’t want to post inaccurate information. So, for those interested, here is the website.

    http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/miljustice.htm

    Comment by AnnDaniel — May 13, 2008 @ 3:15 pm

  37. Also wasn’t it said that Mexico won’t extradite if the person is facing a military tribunal?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — May 13, 2008 @ 3:17 pm

  38. Sometimes I shake my head when I read some of the “information” that “curious” throws out there . Are you throwing things out to see which one sticks ?

    Let’s see you’ve added charges that do not exist so far against Cesar Laurean . The charges you’ve listed include grand theft auto (when did this occur ?), desecration of a corpse, unlawful disposal of a corpse, behavior unbecoming an officer (when did the Marine Corps begin considering a Corporal an officer ?), witness tampering in an official proceeding (what official proceeding — when did the Article 32 hearing occur ?) and treason (did Maria Lauterbach hold any US Government secrets that we aren’t aware of ?) ?

    So what if “WHY ARE THERE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PUBLIC DEFENDER?” being asked — are you not “curious” why the change has come about ?

    Also, who has even mentioned that Cesar Laurean won’t be court maritaled? Of course he will be, doh !

    You really should consider going back to the “In theory, anything is possible” section of this blog and post your “this is my thinking.”

    Oh, and weren’t you the one who suggested to others posting here they should go back and re-read about this case to be better informed and quit posting all the “misinformation”? Maybe you should follow your own advice !

    Comment by Anonymous — May 13, 2008 @ 3:52 pm

  39. My silent applause awaits you Anonymous. Just one more thing, it’s court martial, but I can imagine you were going at lightening speed. Cheers to you!

    Comment by FriendsofSanity — May 13, 2008 @ 3:55 pm

  40. Oops I did spell court martial wrong, thank you for the correction “FriendsofSanity” . I was definitely going at “lightning” speed .

    Comment by Anonymous — May 13, 2008 @ 4:09 pm

  41. As was I.

    Comment by FriendsofSanity — May 13, 2008 @ 4:21 pm

  42. Never mind, Anonymous, really I think he WAS court MARITALed when his wifey found out his ‘relationship.’ He might have wished for the peace and order of the military court compared with what he was getting!!!!!

    Comment by justice4all — May 13, 2008 @ 5:20 pm

  43. Thanks, AnnDaniel for that informative site. Do you think there IS the possibility that other prisoners might kill someone, anyone, at Fort Leavenworth? I do know that in regular prisons the child molesters have a very thin time of it.

    Comment by justice4all — May 13, 2008 @ 5:22 pm

  44. AnnDaniel, I have that courts martial site up in another window. I am impressed with what it covers. I notice on page 4 under “trends’ it says that servicemembers are guaranteed rights and privilieges similar to, and in some cases greater than, those enjoyed by their civilian counterparts. I expect the new lawyer will be very familiar with everything, but I am wondering why Cesar thought the military might convict him on “no evidence.” That is, IF he wrote the email. It looks to me, from just a quick reading of the general info. that they definitely want to assure the public that they aren’t ‘kangaree courts.’ Why do you think Cesar would be more willing to face a civilian court than the military one? I might have missed something along the way and be asking long-ago-answered questions, if so, I am sorry and apologize in advance.

    Comment by justice4all — May 13, 2008 @ 5:37 pm

  45. Good post here http://onslowcrime.encblogs.com/?p=257#comment-4262 anon.

    I think some let their imagination or over-thinking get in the way of logic and fact :)

    Comment by Sentry — May 13, 2008 @ 5:39 pm

  46. wnct.com has an article about interviewing Laurean’s new attorney on the 6 pm news. I hope they have the video on their website later:

    Nine On Your Side will have an exclusive interview with Cesar Laurean’s American defense attorney, Dick McNeil. McNeil, based in Jacksonville, was appointed by the state of North Carolina to serve as Laurean’s attorney if he is extradited back to America. McNeil talks about extradition, a potential change of venue and if and when he believes Laurean’s case will head to trial.

    Comment by JB — May 13, 2008 @ 6:51 pm

  47. The video of the interview with Dick McNeil is now available online.

    http://www.wnct.com/midatlantic/nct/news/local_news.apx.-content-articles-NCT-2008-05-13-0034.html (click on video to watch).

    Comment by Sandy — May 13, 2008 @ 7:44 pm

  48. curious Says:

    May 13th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
    Cesar may be eligible to spend SOME time at Leavensworth, before he goes to a civilian prison,and that is what I think he will fight the most. He knows he will be killed there by other Marines.

    You mean if a prisoner goes to Leavenworth they are murdered? I have never heard about anyone being murdered at that prison, that I can recall. I am sure they have others who have killed women and children before.

    Military prisons have the same security in place to guard all inmates. Seems Leavenworth although a tough as nails prison is one run correctly and aboveboard. I highly doubt those tough guards are just going to let someone kill someone else and do it on their watch.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — May 13, 2008 @ 10:34 pm

  49. I think a lot of people confuse the US Military prison (USDP) at Fort Leavenworth, with the US Penitentiary (USP), Leavenworth. The two are unrelated.

    Comment by JB — May 14, 2008 @ 12:00 am

  50. Thank you Drake Garrett. I think you answered my question. I hadn’t actually thought of the “on their watch” angle, but it would pose some tough questions for the guards if an inmate was murdered. Also, I didn’t even know there WAS a U.S. prison there, all I knew about was the Fort Leavenworth one.

    Comment by justice4all — May 14, 2008 @ 1:35 am

  51. Here is a tour of the prisons in Leavenworth. There is a state men’s facility in the adjoining city of Lansing.

    Old US Discpilinary Barracks

    http://www.ftlvnhistsoc.org/images/db-aerial.jpg

    New USDB

    http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/pubs/nov02/story8.htm
    http://www.federalnewsradio.com/?nid=78&sid=1311021

    Federal Penitentiary
    http://farm1.static.flickr.com/169/450608656_4e1de79958.jpg?v=0

    http://investigation.discovery.com/investigation/notorious-prisons/leavenworth/leavenworth.html

    CCA Detention Center for the USMS and DOJ

    http://www.correctionscorp.com/facility_detailed.cfm?facid=123

    Comment by GlowWorm — May 14, 2008 @ 9:39 am

  52. Thanks GlowWorm. That is a great site. I notice some of those prisons offer all sorts of things in the rehabilitative area.

    Comment by justice4all — May 14, 2008 @ 7:08 pm

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