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Mary Lauterbach and two members of Congress talk about sexual assault in military

Lindell Kay | HOME PAGE,Lauterbach case | Wednesday, July 30th, 2008

Two members of Congress and the mother of Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach will hold a bipartisan press conference Thursday to discuss sexual assault in the military.

Representatives Mike Turner, R-Ohio, and Jane Harman, D-Cal., will discuss legislation that they have co-authored to address the troubling problem of sexual assault in the military. Congresswoman Harman and Mrs. Lauterbach will also discuss their testimony in front of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, National Security and Foreign Affairs Subcommittee, according to a release from Turner’s office.

lauterbach.jpg turner.jpg harman.jpg

From a statement issued by Harman’s office:

HARMAN INTRODUCES BIPARTISAN BILL TO HALT RAPE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT IN THE MILITARY

Lawmaker says “a female soldier in Iraq is more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire.”

Washington, D.C. Rep. Jane Harman (D-CA), Chair of the Homeland Security Intelligence Subcommittee, together with Rep. Michael Turner (R-OH), today introduced legislation calling on the Department of Defense to develop a comprehensive strategy to prevent rape and sexual assault in the military.

“That a female soldier in Iraq is more likely to be raped by a fellow soldier than killed by enemy fire is sickening,” said Harman. “This crisis has reached epidemic proportions and threatens our national security. Better training and rigorous prosecutions are needed to make clear to soldiers, and the command structure, that bright red lines have been drawn.”

Since 2002, 59,690 female veterans reported being raped, sexual assaulted, or experienced another form of military sexual trauma, constituting almost 20% of the women seen at VA facilities nationally, according to the Department of Veterans Affairs. In FY 2007, 2,688 sexual assaults were reported, according to DOD, including 1,259 reports of rape. Shockingly, only 181 of the 2,212 (8%) reports investigated during FY 2007 were referred to courts martial — a figure far below civilian prosecution rates, where 40% of those arrested are prosecuted.

“Women serving in our Armed Forces who come forward and report a sexual assault must be protected from their alleged attackers,” said Rep. Turner. “DOD’s record of protecting women who report a rape and prosecute their case is shocking and unacceptable. I believe the legislation that Congresswoman Harman and I have put forward is a critical step in helping to solve this problem.”
Rep. Harman’s bill urges the Department of Defense to develop an effective strategy to investigate and prosecute sexual assault and rape in the military, which includes the following:

• Commanders to be held accountable for assaults that occur in their units and provide justification for disposing of sexual assault cases through non-judicial punishment and other administrative actions.
• The Secretary of Defense to review current training methods for all military investigations staff, including Judge Advocates, and implement any improvements that are necessary.
• Notification of local civilian law enforcement officials of any military protective order issued on base to provide for continuity of protection of victims.
• An opportunity for a base transfer once a servicemember has notified her or his command that she or he has been sexually assaulted or raped.

The Harman-Turner bill is endorsed by the National Women’s Law Center.

“The resolution introduced today by Congresswoman Harman focuses on a crucial issue that must be addressed. Sadly, the number of reported sexual assaults and rapes in the military has increased dramatically and continues to rise. Yet the number of cases that are not prosecuted has reached alarming levels. While the military has made some attempt to investigate these cases, it is not doing nearly enough,” said Nancy Duff Campbell, Co-President of the National Women’s Law Center. “In this resolution, Congresswoman Harman, who has long been seen as a leader on issues affecting women in the military, lays out concrete steps for what needs to be done. We urge the House of Representatives to pass it without delay.”

Harman will testify on her bill on Thursday, July 31st, before the National Security & Foreign Affairs Subcommittee of the Oversight & Government Reform Committee. Rep. Turner is a member of the hearing panel.

946 Comments »

  1. While I think it is good to look at policies and procedures because there is always room for improvement, but doing a base transfer on an allegation alone…I simply don’t agree with. If you have someone that doesn’t like their duty station or their higher ups and know they can get transferred to another base, what’s to say they won’t claim rape to get that done?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — July 30, 2008 @ 10:34 pm

  2. Ann, I believe you are 100% correct on that point. Also, holding commanders responsible for sexual assaults? Guilty by command? Sounds unconstitutional to me. And what funding is the federal government prepared to provide local law enforcement to “police” these MPO’s when they arrive in their office? As I see it, most localities don’t have the money nor the personnel to take on that additional responsibility. I am in full agreement to continuously review and update the system in which these situations are handled, but those solutions proposed above are a waste of my tax dollars, and a waste of time. They are to placate Mary Lauterbach and nothing more. If she wishes to fund this entire project, then fine. None of that will change the fact that her daughter wasn’t raped. Meanwhile, lets find a REAL solution for the REAL rape and sexual assault victims both in and out of the military.

    Comment by Anonymous — July 30, 2008 @ 11:17 pm

  3. Sexual assault in the military has been an ongoing problem for many years. While in the Army, a female Army Sgt, who lived in my apartment complex, was beaten and raped by a former boyfriend of hers. I was the first person she came to. I called the police, and they met us at the hospital. The x boyfriend was tried and convicted. Female Sgt was never the same. Her command asked her if she wanted to be transferred to another base, and she chose to do so, at a base closer to her home of record. This happened during the VietNam War. Back then, I cannot recall any of the females that I knew who had been raped, crying wolf, just to get transferred to another base. I also came across single military females involved with married men. To me, they were playing a hurtful and dangerous game. But, no matter what advice others gave them they still continued the game.

    Comment by Unenlisted — July 30, 2008 @ 11:57 pm

  4. Tally Ho, Tally Ho…….rush off in the direction of the baying hounds……The appropriate piece of paper was quite useless, and so would anything at all else that had been in place!!!!!

    I agree that policies and procedures can and probably should be reviewed periodically to see if there are improvements or adjustments that could be made. I shudder to think that anyone would make a false report just to get transferred, but it could happen. Cesar appeared to think the military might convice with “no evidence,” although that email might not have come from him, and he might have been talking about the homicide case. I don’t think the military would convict on rape on “no evidence,” any more than they might fling someone in the brig on just the allegation of shoplifting, or something else. I am absolutely certain that if Maria had gone for help in a distraught and assaulted condition and presented some solid evidence, got an mpo, etc., and reported that CESAR was harrassing her, (if he was) they would have put him in the brig pending further investigation. BUT, those dear souls on the hill must not have seen the dateline segment, and are rushing off in pursuit of shadows. THERE ARE CASES OF ASSAULT, as the one above, but the military just can’t waste time, and money, on trying cases that just might not hold water. We weren’t there, and we don’t know, we have done just about everything that could be done to discover what might have occurred, given the info we have had. It couldn’t hurt to have extra support for victims, but holding the commander responsible? Would he have to live in the barracks and monitor the guys 24/7? Commanders are probably responsible in a combat situation, I don’t exactly know about that, but what the troops do in their own time is just not something that the commanders can be held accountable for. I think it could be a frightening experience to report an assault, and there could be some uncomfortable situations because of it, and those women (or men) thus affected need support. Well, weren’t there 2 victim’s advocates? If Maria was raped, her reporting tecnniques were the stumbling block.

    Comment by justice4all — July 31, 2008 @ 3:13 am

  5. As far as women carrying on with married men….dangerous and losing game. A bit like having a fling with the boss…when the affair sours it isn’t the boss who is looking for another job. On another thought about this, some married men might hide their married status, easy to do if one is abroad, but if a girl is tricked like that she needs to run for her life (literally as we have seen) because if he will deceive one woman, he will certainly deceive another. Also, what a breach of trust. One’s heart goes out to the wife and children.

    Comment by justice4all — July 31, 2008 @ 3:18 am

  6. AND, another thing. Soon the military will be so busy policing the troops’ “romantic” activities that they won’t have time for training warriors. Or, they will decrease, drastically, the number of women entering the military.

    Comment by justice4all — July 31, 2008 @ 3:21 am

  7. Good morning Justice! We’ve been down this road before and, as I said last time, I can only hope that this attention from Congress will improve the situation, not make it worse. The numbers stated above absolutely shock me. I also hope that our lawmakers have better sources of information than Dateline and I’m not trying to be condescending here. I think there is a tendency to confuse these TV shows (Dateline, Nancy Grace, Dan Abrams, Greta, and many others that are referenced on these blogs) with real factual news. IMO they are entertainment shows. They probably would never admit to that and much of the content is at least based on fact and truth, but with a lot of added hype, editing, speculation, and twist. They do provide “food for thought”, but I, personally, consider none of these as a good source of providing a full, true, and accurate picture of the reality of a given situation.

    Comment by R356 — July 31, 2008 @ 7:32 am

  8. When civilian LEs are to be notified of these MPOs, does this mean city, county, next county etc. . . . Where does it end? For example in Jacksonville, do you notify the JPD, OCSD and the other multitude of outlying counties where Marines might live (Jones, Lenoir, Carteret , Pender, you get my point)? Just seems very vague to me, therefore, not of much value with lots of room for failure.

    In Jacksonville, it appears that both the JPD and OCSD are understaffed and underpaid and now these additional responsibilities and costs are going to be forced on them. From what I have heard, they don’t have the manpower to do their current responsibilities and are losing manpower to higher paying jobs. So is Congress or the military going to provide these entities funding for these additional duties, so they can do them right?

    Do we think that if civilian LE were aware of the MPO in the Lauterbach case, that the outcome would have been any different? I don’t. We don’t even know, who initiated the violation of the MPO. It could have been Maria. Also, there are legitimate reasons to question the validity of the rape accusation.

    As far as offering a move to another base option to those who claim rape, wow, I see a big quagmire happening there.

    There is always room to make improvements, but I agree that this is just a move to placate Mary Lauterbach. I would be very interested in Turner and Harman’s implementation plan. They have all the answers, so surely they have conducted a study and have come with a well thought out implementation and execution plan. Or are their knees jerking?

    Comment by KH — July 31, 2008 @ 9:03 am

  9. Justice: Agreed, they probably will start pumping out classes on inappropriate behavior in the ranks. Honestly, I saw so many affairs going on stateside, and overseas, that I don’t know how they will keep up with it all. It was so annoying to watch a female sleeping around, getting faster promotions, causing major drama in the work section. It certainly was not the norm, but that one bad apple soured the whole crop. The majority of the females in the military are hard working gals, some with husbands, kids, trying to juggle deployments, working on their degrees. But, as most will agree with me, there is always that one apple.

    Comment by Unenlisted — July 31, 2008 @ 9:19 am

  10. Did you know that there are 2 ways to report a sexual assault? Restricted and unrestricted. Restricted is where everything is entered in a database but you don’t want any charges brought-for whatever reason. Unrestricted reporting entails everything. It is victim’s choice how to proceed. Out of the 2,688 reported cases in 2007, 705 of those were restricted. Later 102 decided to pursue charges. Of the 2,688, 2,085 went unrestricted reporting. Of those, 1,511 of those reports involved military members.

    And according to the above, only 8% were sent for courts martial. Interesting out the SAPR report says differently. The report says that 1,955 criminal investigations completed. Of those 759 (28%) were still pending investigations and will be reported on the FY08 report. So, 1,172 were referred to the commander for action. Commanders took action on 600 cases (51%). Of those 600, 181 (30%) resulted in courts martial. The remaining 572 (49%) were still pending disposition as of Sept. 30, 2007.

    I got the above information from the SAPR report at http://www.sapr.mil

    Comment by AnnDaniel — July 31, 2008 @ 9:19 am

  11. Ann thanks for the link and info.

    Comment by KH — July 31, 2008 @ 9:22 am

  12. So, we are making laws that go on top of laws that already exist? We are going to hold commanders accountable if a member of their unit commits a sexual assault. Why just sexual assault? Why stop there? Why not hold them accountable for every action their people do, and make it a law? They are entering a very slippery slope here. Why not hold the WalMart manager responsible for crimes committed by an employee? Why not hold a teacher accountable for a crime committed by a student? Think of how this can be perverted. “This unit sucks, and I want out. I think I’ll accuse several guys of sexual harrassment or assault. Germany, here I come!!” Okay, a little facetious, but you should get my drift.

    KH, interesting point. Base has become almost a safe haven for Marines who violate the law, since once they get on base they are cushioned by their command and the bureaucracy that surrounds them. Why should civilian authorities accomodate them when they aren’t so accomodating to the civilian authorities?

    Comment by Realist — July 31, 2008 @ 9:28 am

  13. Hi KH! I understand what you’re saying and agree that the outline above is very vague. Who really knows what the actual “plan” will be and, for that matter, how successful.

    As for the staffing/funding of local agencies, here is a different take from an outsider. Having large military installations in your jurisdiction is a very sharp two-edged sword. While your economy reaps the benefits, your government agencies and local infrastructure have to deal with the negative impacts. Try to imagine Jacksonville without Camp Lejeune. Many localities across the nation have had to deal with losing their bases over the last 15-20 years and in many cases the transition has been a difficult one. Just food for thought. I don’t know what the federal government would be willing to do to support the local governments regarding this bill.

    Comment by R356 — July 31, 2008 @ 9:31 am

  14. Just to think, we actually PAY these people on the Hill!!!!!!!

    Comment by justice4all — July 31, 2008 @ 9:33 am

  15. R356, yes, we’ll probably continue down this road to absolutely nowhere now that they have another congressperson involved. I think a more relevant question might now be, “To what extent, if any, did Maria need protection?” Unless Cesar tricked her, kidnapped her, or drew her to his home by magnetic powers, she actually did end up there!!!!! I don’t discount, completely, the possibility that something was actually happening to Maria, but purely on the military side, they just can’t proceed unless they have something to proceed on!!!!! Now, though, it looks like a war of words and many new “responsibilities” for the LE and military……how will they stop all this “romantic” soap opera?

    Comment by justice4all — July 31, 2008 @ 9:39 am

  16. The ideas set forth by these lovely lawmakers and a heartbroken mother ‘sounds’ good. However I have to agree with EVERY comment posted here. Having an affair is a very dangerous game for all parties involved and the other lives that are destroyed. Sure either party may be hiding the fact that they are in deed married. And without a private investigator or a background check, it could be tricky finding out whether or not your ‘love’ interest is in fact already taken while he/she is sweeping you off your feet. How about everybody opens their eyes. Stop trusting people that you DON’T know. Also have some RESPECT for yourself and your body. I’m not saying that everyone needs to abstain. Just that people have lost all respect for themselves and bend to whatever society says is ok. I’m sure this all sounds old school (mind you I’m 25), but it’s also called common sense. I’m not perfect and never said I was. Just saying that respect for yourself will take you far in your personal and professional life.

    End note: I don’t think any of these women deserved what happened to them. Just stating opinion about society as a whole.

    Comment by sounds nice — July 31, 2008 @ 9:50 am

  17. That’s very well stated – Sounds Nice!

    Comment by R356 — July 31, 2008 @ 10:04 am

  18. Incredible. I cannot believe that our military may become a babysitting service. Military will be too busy then to accomplish the mission. Hold the commander accountable? Are they out of their minds!? How can one person control the actions of hundreds of military men/women under their command? Any college grads here want to enlist as an officer? Having this over my head I sure as heck wouldn’t. I’m with the majority of people in that I agree that there may be room for improvement, however, holding the commander accountable and allowing base transfers for the accusser are not areas I support. Now I understand what Mary as the mother of a Marine that alleged rape is trying to accomplish and under different circumstances I would be 100% supportive of her agenda, but, I am completely convinced that Maria was not raped. I’d like to see the numbers in the article broken down. I’d also like to see the number on how many false allegations were reported. In my 18 plus years of military service I never heard of a rape occurring within any of my commands. How did the VA come up with these numbers? So, the question remains, how does the military protect its’ members from rape? They can’t no more than the civilian sector can. How does a military member protect themselves from rape. They can’t in most cases, however, they can be pro-active in ensuring their actions after work hours do not place them in a position where they may find themselves in a pickle. PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is a good starting point. Dress appropriately, don’t get so drunk that you become useless, don’t go somewhere with a bunch of guys and expect to be treated like a lady, common sense stuff. Most importantly, report the sexual assault the minute you are able to or at least keep the clothes you were in as proof until you are ready to report the assault. It’s going to be a rocky road but the “sweep it under the rug” mentality in the military is almost not hear of anymore. So many things that one can do to provide some sort of safety net. This is not to say that rapes will not happen. Women in our military have fought for becoming equals with the men. When I first entered the military women lived in an all woman barracks with high fences and barbed wire. They were limited in the jobs they were allowed to do. Then came the co-ed barracks (women shared rooms with women, men with men). Then came the sexual harrassment education. Say “red zone” when you feel a person of the opposite sex is begining to offend you. Then came the point where men and women couldn’t say anything off the wall because the opposite sex would report it as sexual harrassment. That’s right no more little Johnny jokes. Then came the point where woman Marines didn’t want to be called WM’s. They wanted to be called Marines and this came to be. Throughout my years in service most males were afraid to be near a WM. With the measures in the article on the plate now where will our military women end up? Are we going back to segration from the males. This seems like the most pro-active action to take where I stand if the military is going to protect it’s women 100%. Make the commander accountable? I don’t think so, make the offender accountable. Allow base transers? I don’t think so, not at the taxpayers cost and because of the factor that false allegations will increase because he/she is not happy at the base he/she is at. Notify the local LE of MPOs that are put in place, sure. Then if that MPO is broken in the civilian sector hold the chief of police accountable. Review the policies and procedures and implement improvements and changes……YOU BET!

    Comment by Nehi — July 31, 2008 @ 10:22 am

  19. Please don’t tell if this bill is passed that it will have the Harman-Turner names attached to it.

    Comment by KH — July 31, 2008 @ 10:52 am

  20. What i mean is I hope it won’t be called something like the Harman-Turner Act. Something about that rubs me the wrong way.

    Comment by KH — July 31, 2008 @ 10:54 am

  21. The responsibility should not be on rape victims to protect themselves from rape any more than the responsibility is on stabbing victims to keep themselves from getting stabbed.

    What a rape victim was wearing does not matter any more than whether a stabbing victim was verbally provoking the person who stabbed them. The onus is on the rapist or the attacker not to commit a crime. To say or imply otherwise takes away responsibility from the criminal and implies it is wholly upon women to keep themselves from ‘risky’ situations.

    In particular, invoking a woman’s dress as the reason she got raped is the argument used to justify the shrouding of women in Muslim countries – that women’s bodies are inherently shameful and so sexually provocative that they should be hidden, rather then men exerting whatever self control is required not to sexually assault another person. And even extremely modest Muslim apparel doesn’t stop rape from happening, as the recent report of al-Qaeda using rape as a tool to shame women into becoming suicide bombers makes clear.

    True, some behaviors are more inherently risky than others, but that does still not place responsibility on the victim, any more than driving late at night on New Years Eve makes a driver partially to blame if they are hit and killed by a drunk driver, even though, statistically, that is when the most drunk drivers are on the road.

    Comment by Rachel — July 31, 2008 @ 11:02 am

  22. Enter “PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and SELF RESPECT”.

    The liberal dream of women running down the street nude and nobody has a right to say anything is going back in the can IMO.

    Bring on some personal responsibility coupled with some good decision making and the world will be a better place. ;)

    Comment by FoxyBrown — July 31, 2008 @ 11:20 am

  23. Rachel, I wasn’t stating that a rape victim carries the responsibility of being raped because of dress, actions, behaviors or whatnot. The rapist carries that responsibility for the criminal action. What I was trying to relay is that each one of us has to do what we can to keep ourselves as safe as possible. That’s not to say that it will eliminate rape but one should also try to avoid situations where one may be vunerable to a sexual assault.

    “The responsibility should not be on rape victims to protect themselves from rape any more than the responsibility is on stabbing victims to keep themselves from getting stabbed. ”

    Is this to say that the rape victim should just allow a rape to happen or is this to say that someone else is responsible for keeping a person as safe as possible from being raped?

    Comment by Nehi — July 31, 2008 @ 11:31 am

  24. Nehi, I entirely agree with this: “What I was trying to relay is that each one of us has to do what we can to keep ourselves as safe as possible.” But you lost me at “Is this to say that the rape victim should just allow a rape to happen…”

    Rape victims do not allow rapes to happen any more than anyone else who is assaulted allows it to happen. That is the point of rape – they were forced by violent criminals. I understand what you are saying about personal safety and agree that it is generally advisable to be aware of potentially risky situations, but there still needs to be a line drawn stating that when a crime is committed, the criminal is to blame.

    Regardless of what you or I may think of someone else’s questionable personal decisions, the fact remains that there is a clear line where the law was knowingly and flagrantly broken, and it was not broken by the victim — therefore they are not to blame for the crime. Bringing in subjective mitigating factors due to unwise, but legal behavior, only clouds the issue, gives the rapist an easy excuse and makes it somehow seem like ‘less’ of a crime to rape a particularly person, implicitly placing her partially at fault.

    And if someone is overly scantily clad, which I have no desire to see either, that situation is covered by indecent exposure laws.

    Comment by Rachel — July 31, 2008 @ 11:53 am

  25. “Regardless of what you or I may think of someone else’s questionable personal decisions, the fact remains that there is a clear line where the law was knowingly and flagrantly broken, and it was not broken by the victim — therefore they are not to blame for the crime. Bringing in subjective mitigating factors due to unwise, but legal behavior, only clouds the issue, gives the rapist an easy excuse and makes it somehow seem like ‘less’ of a crime to rape a particularly person, implicitly placing her partially at fault.”

    Well said Rachel. I couldn’t agree more.

    Comment by Nehi — July 31, 2008 @ 1:24 pm

  26. I think Mary Lauterbach ought to get into uniform. She would be an absolute terror to those warring Iraqi factions!!!!! Once she made up her mind on the best plan, they would sure toe the line in the end!!!!

    Anything at all that can be done, without expending much-needed-elsewhere resources, ought to be done, and probably in most cases is being done. The problem isn’t simple, but rape, or other sexual assault of males or females is a crime of control and violence, NOT a ‘romantic desire.’ Yes, good point Nehi about being careful not to get drunk enough to be unaware, good point about watching who you socialize with, and good point about dress. Horrors that we would have to wear ‘virtual tents swathed from head to toe’ and we don’t have to, but I think what I understand you to say is that, for instance, if you are going to be going out where a bunch of the guys are drinking and partying, be sure you don’t attract someone’s unwanted attention by provocative dress. Sometimes I have had to look away when some lady leans over the counter of the “customer service desk” and I am looking at about 100% fallout. And, to think I have a small child along, too. I don’t know about separate barracks with the barbed wire (wonder how many torn and shredded pairs of cammie pants went to the menders each week?) The closeness of military life tends to draw people together in bonds of respect and camaraderie, but as in everything else, selfishness can wreck even Utopia. I think all these crimes are an outgrowth of ME FIRST. Nobody at all deserves to be harmed in ANY way, or have someone else’s opinions or wants forced on them. It is bullying on a brutal scale. From what I have read and know, the military really want to make sure they aren’t shortchanging women. I remember, relatively recently, the “tailhook” scandal. I am CERTAIN, since many heads rolled, that the Navy (and all other services) want to make sure they are treating women right. If my friend is a union elevator constructor and goes out to a weekend party with other union workers, and gets raped by one of them, the very idea of holding the local responsible would be met with howls of derision. Certainly she could tell his boss, and file a union grievance, probably for assault, but the union itself couldn’t possibly be held accountable. I am quite certain the boss would try to find out what really happened, and would help her get to the appropriate LE person, and I am also sure that the other workers would rally round with support, but the ONLY RESPONSIBLE PERSON AT ALL, IS THE PERPETRATOR!!!!!

    Comment by justice4all — July 31, 2008 @ 1:30 pm

  27. I note Congresswoman Harmon and Mrs. Lauterbach will discuss their testimony in front of the committee. What testimony is that….all Mary can discuss is what was told to her by Maria. Pointing out that Mariais dead because the military failed to protect her from Cesar is entering quicksand. Firstly we don’t know what happened, and secondly it will be basing policies and actions (and expenditure of tax dollars) on HEARSAY and OPINION, because Cesar hasn’t been tried from anything yet, let alone convicted. How about, “Servicemen and women, be cautious and prudent in your choice of companions and especially your choice of romantic partners. Be sure the person is not already married. For those who assert that they are ‘in the process of a divorce,’ and will love you forever, beware. That person probably said the same to the supposedly divorcing spouse. If you are reasonably certain that your intended boy/girl friend is ok, and isn’t straight off ‘America’s Most Wanted’ proceed with dignity and self respect. First of all, watch out for YOURSELF. Don’t place yourself in a vulnerable spot. That means, don’t go into a motel room with a man and sit on the double bed and think you might be going to discuss world politics!!!!! I truly have a friend who did just about that and was astounded when it became a force situation. It took a bit of explaining to get the point across that that was placing herself into a vulnerable spot!!!! Took her a couple of tries before the penny dropped, too.

    Comment by justice4all — July 31, 2008 @ 1:42 pm

  28. Of course the only responsible person is the perpetrator j4a. No need to yell. And when proven guilty that perpetrator should receive the harshest punishment. I don’t think nor have I said that a victim is responsible for violent crimes, or any crime, forced on them. Perhaps my comments aren’t coming out the way I’m meaning for them to be said.

    Comment by Nehi — July 31, 2008 @ 1:53 pm

  29. “First of all, watch out for YOURSELF. Don’t place yourself in a vulnerable spot.”

    *clapping*

    Comment by Nehi — July 31, 2008 @ 1:54 pm

  30. Nehi, sorry to yell, but I agree with everything you said, and I have difficulty understanding why anybody else wouldn’t agree, too. Your comments are coming across to me just as I think you mean them, I think it was someone else upthread who questioned something about clothing or dress or something.

    Comment by justice4all — July 31, 2008 @ 2:10 pm

  31. 2:30pm live on wral.com the judge is going to see about the warrants in the Cooper case. The media have petitioned to be able to have the info.

    Comment by justice4all — July 31, 2008 @ 2:13 pm

  32. Nehi, justice, and Rachel – well said by all and I completely agree!

    Comment by R356 — July 31, 2008 @ 2:18 pm

  33. I’m listening to Mary Lauterbach’s testimony today. It is on WRAL. She just stated that Gabriel would have been her first grandchild. What about Annie’s baby ,who was born in 2007?

    Comment by KH — July 31, 2008 @ 4:38 pm

  34. http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/video/3310802/

    Here is the link to Mary.

    Comment by KH — July 31, 2008 @ 4:40 pm

  35. Do we know what they are stating when the state the Command should be accountable?
    Does that mean responsible for the rape or responsible to follow the process set forth….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — July 31, 2008 @ 5:20 pm

  36. WOW! Just listen to the link, Sorry and we love you

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — July 31, 2008 @ 5:29 pm

  37. The above for Ann Lauterbacj if she is still reading

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — July 31, 2008 @ 5:29 pm

  38. I command can only be accountable to follow the procedures they have swore to abide by…. It is a sad day when we blame the system for an individual’s crime.
    However I do think the Military is in a unique situation. As stated here before they hold a power over an individuals life, unlike a civilian work place,,,, bottom line you can not just quit.

    Concerning Mary, did it ever occur to you that there is a group for woman who has gone AWOL, and this organization looked to Mary assistance. I don’t believe for one minuet Congress is trying the MARIA rape case… if they are,,,, then there is a lot more info than you realize.
    On the same thinking above, Keep in mind this case is not about Maria. It is about all the other rape victims….and
    PS… Most woman who are raped have made a bad judgment call,,(some just walked down dark street etc… things they should be able to do with out fear. But Not wise) but most of the time they are girls that have some problems and they socialize with other people with problems…. Those are really the ones who need educated in the real sense of action reaction… not that are responsible; however perpetrators look for Victim Profiles.

    If you take the Maria case. Several Folks here do exactly what the Defense for Cesar Loves…. Maria put it on her self,,,,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — July 31, 2008 @ 5:33 pm

  39. Quote from http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/31/military.sexabuse/

    But when it came time for the military to defend itself, the panel was told the Pentagon’s top official on sexual abuse, Dr. Kaye Whitley, was ordered not to show up despite a subpoena.

    “I don’t know what you’re trying to cover up here, but we’re not going to allow it,” Rep. Henry Waxman, D-California, said to the Defense official who relayed the news of Whitley’s no-show. “This is unacceptable.”

    Rep. John Tierney, the panel’s chairman and a Democrat from Massachusetts, angrily responded, “These actions by the Defense Department are inexplicable.”

    “The Defense Department appears to be willfully and blatantly advising Dr. Whitley not to comply with a duly authorized congressional subpoena,” Tierney said.

    An Army official who did testify said the Army takes allegations of sexual abuse extremely seriously.

    “Even one sexual assault violates the very essence of what it means to be a soldier and it’s a betrayal of the Army’s core values,” Lt. Gen. Michael Rochelle said.

    Earlier, the committee heard from Mary Lauterbach, the mother of Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach, a 20-year-old pregnant Marine who was killed earlier this year, allegedly by a fellow Marine.

    Comment by Anonymous — July 31, 2008 @ 6:06 pm

  40. ihv2mastiffs,

    You need to go back and brush up on your studies on comprehension. NO ONE is stating that Maria Lauterbach is to blame for her own death! So your comment “Several Folks here do exactly what the Defense for Cesar Loves…. Maria put it on her self (sic) ,,,,” doesn’t hold water.

    You apparently have an axe to grind because it’s apparent that it’s just not good enough to squarely put the blame on the person who is responsible for Maria Lauterbach’s death, that being Cesar Armando Laurean (and / or possibly his wife Christina Smith Laurean). Is your goal to make the Marine Corps responsible and have them to pay out millions of dollars to “your” family? Will any dollar amount bring Maria Lauterbach and her unborn grandson back to life? Or is it because the government pockets have no bottom?

    The Marine Corps is no more responsible for Maria Lauterbach’s death, along with Holley Wimunc’s death than the Army is for the death of Megan Touma. These women made bad choices in the men who they chose to have a relationship with and those “men” murdered them. Guess what ihv2mastiffs, this just doesn’t happen in the military either, it happens in the civilian world everyday. Are the civilian employers to blame for their employee’s actions? I don’t hardly think so.

    If the Armed Services’ policies and procedures need to be changed, then so be it. A change for the better is welcomed. But to say the Marine Corps didn’t follow the DOD’s policies and procedures is ludicrous, especially when you have a “victim” who’s story changed many times over the course of NCIS’ investigation.

    It certainly appears that Maria Lauterbach had one story she told the Marine Corps and one story she told to her family. Now how is that the Marine Corps fault?

    We will never know the exact chain of events that caused Maria Lauterbach to go to the Laurean home and ultimately what triggered the horrific event that occurred on or about December 14, 2007, since, at this point, there were only two people present (that we know of) and one of them is dead and the other one isn’t speaking.

    Comment by Anonymous — July 31, 2008 @ 7:02 pm

  41. Wow…Maria’s baby would have been her first grandchild? What about Anne’s first baby? Or did Anne put her baby up for adoption and Mary doesn’t consider him to be her first?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — July 31, 2008 @ 7:20 pm

  42. Ann- I just don’t see the purpose in Mary having to state that on public record about Gabriel being her first grandchild. Even if Annie did give the baby up for adoption, I would think that is a touchy topic, so why would Mary even go there?

    Comment by KH — July 31, 2008 @ 7:24 pm

  43. Anonymous
    Thanks for your comment but look around and take your own advise. It has been stated very clearly that Maria kept pushing Cesar and it drove hom to the point of murder,

    If you also read you will see that I do not think this is the Military’s fault,,, I have actually gone to great length to state that… What ever the Military did was in without the benefit of hindsight.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — July 31, 2008 @ 7:27 pm

  44. Anonymous
    Tell you the truth, your accussation are quite rude , and false

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — July 31, 2008 @ 7:32 pm

  45. What about this quote from Mastiffs “command can only be accountable to follow the procedures they have swore to abide by…. It is a sad day when we blame the system for an individual’s crime.”

    Is that the comment you meant when you said I was blaming the Military

    Comment by Anonymous — July 31, 2008 @ 7:35 pm

  46. ihv2mastiffs,

    Don’t blow smoke up people’s butts either. You talk out of both sides of your mouth since you wildly throw out statements / accusations but bring nothing to back them up. Are you really wanting the truth?

    Now what about Anne’s baby? Did she or did she not have a baby son born in March 2007? Does Mary Lauterbach deem that Christopher doesn’t exist because he was put up for adoption? Why would she throw that statement out there or did she do it to add more drama?

    Just asking since you’re family and all.

    Comment by Anonymous — July 31, 2008 @ 7:48 pm

  47. Mastiff, I for one have not ever stated nor have I seen it officially stated that:

    “It has been stated very clearly that Maria kept pushing Cesar and it drove hom to the point of murder,”

    That statement is not justified.

    Comment by Nehi — July 31, 2008 @ 7:50 pm

  48. I was not aware that Gabriel would not have been Marys 1st grandchild. If it is in fact true that Marias’ sister has had a child I feel so sad that Mary would not acknowledge that child in her quest.

    Comment by Nehi — July 31, 2008 @ 7:52 pm

  49. Nehi, it is true that Anne had a baby in March 2007.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — July 31, 2008 @ 7:54 pm

  50. Thanks Ann. My heart is breaking for Anne and her child. It doesn’t matter to me whether she kept him or if she took the adoption option. Either way Anne is still a mother and that child is still her child and Marys’ grandchild. This talks quite a bit about Marys integrity. No need to lie about something like that. Best to say nothing at all.

    Comment by Nehi — July 31, 2008 @ 8:01 pm

  51. I know Nehi. And to think that she was pushing Maria to possibly put her baby up for adoption and now she is claiming how he would have been her first.

    Anyway, I watched the 5 minute clip…and it just bugs me that she wants legislation for all victims…but yet all she talked about was Maria’s case. Why not use other sexual assault incidents and how those were reported and processed? Why not bring them or sworn affadavits from them to the hearing?

    She talked about how it shouldn’t take 8 months to investigate…agreed but how can investigators do their job properly when the victim is changing her story?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — July 31, 2008 @ 8:05 pm

  52. Niel, I will find the statement for you if it is important to you.

    Ann, Yes and I was as shock as you were that she said that… I have no idea, By the way How did you know? As you investigate this more of my statement will make sense.
    Although If you re read my statements you will find my attitude has not been against the Military nor justification for Maria action. I do have reason to think the crime was far more violent and Cesar was far more calculated than what is in the press currently. I already got myself into trouble with my 1st couple statement here, anyways I am sorry that you think
    “You apparently have an axe to grind because it’s apparent that it’s just not good enough to squarely put the blame on the person who is responsible for Maria Lauterbach’s death, that being Cesar Armando Laurean (and / or possibly his wife Christina Smith Laurean). Is your goal to make the Marine Corps responsible and have them to pay out millions of dollars to “your” family? Will any dollar amount bring Maria Lauterbach and her unborn grandson back to life? Or is it because the government pockets have no bottom?”

    To me that statement you became everything you accused me of…. Read I never accused the Military of anything, nor have I said Maria was perfect
    However read all of your statement to me

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — July 31, 2008 @ 8:32 pm

  53. Mastiffs, were you talking to me when you stated:

    “Niel, I will find the statement for you if it is important to you.”

    Comment by Nehi — July 31, 2008 @ 8:36 pm

  54. How did I know that Anne had a baby in March 2007? It was on one of Maria’s myspace pages. Not the one that is now private but another one. She posted a blog about how happy she was that her nephew was born.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — July 31, 2008 @ 8:37 pm

  55. Nehi, Yes and I appologise for the typo

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — July 31, 2008 @ 8:52 pm

  56. Annie has a MySpace page that has pictures of the baby. The account isn’t private, but you have to have a MySpace account to get to the pictures.

    http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewAlbums&friendID=197836126

    Comment by KH — July 31, 2008 @ 9:10 pm

  57. KH, you’re right…I forgot about Annie’s page. I think she has another one now but it’s set to private.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — July 31, 2008 @ 9:11 pm

  58. I’m still so flabergasted that Mary made that statement regarding the 1st grandchild. There is no turning back on that one, it is well documented that she said it.

    Is this where Maria learned to exagerate the trutth? From her Mother.

    Comment by KH — July 31, 2008 @ 9:25 pm

  59. I am just plain flabergasted to be even seeing Mary Lauterbach’s face all over the media again, period. First, we saw her dumping on Maria, when first reported missing, then we saw her claiming that LE twisted her statements about Maria, then she is grieving, then she receives a big fat SGLI check, and I was hoping that was the last time I would see her face again. But, she rears her head again, stating that the military did not protect her dau. Contacts someone who will listen to her. I didn’t believe my dau either, but now I do. Let’s change some rules. Mary of Arc, coming to the aid of military females does not make me feel all warm inside.

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 1, 2008 @ 1:20 am

  60. unenlisted, I’m not at all surprised!!!! I wrote to the good congressman about this when the hue and cry first erupted. Didn’t receive a reply. Do you think it might be a good idea to tip them off about the dateline segment, Ms. Megan Grafton’s statement, before they get themselves in too deep?

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 1:40 am

  61. I would be all for anything that made life simpler, safer, better, etc., for any servicemember, especially regarding personal violence, but I am afraid all this grandstanding and posturing will result only in multitudinous rules and regulations and another boondoggle like the ‘political correctness’ of ‘classes and seminars’ on supposed “sexual harrassment’ for the federal employees in the 80′s and 90′s. Example. Not good to refer to other, female, coworkers as “girls,” can comment favorably on manicure, hairstyle, new glasses, etc., but not on attire. Many days of ‘classes’ resulting in nothing too substantial and a lot of resentment, too.

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 1:45 am

  62. I sure home some of you people can see where Maria got the idea that lying was better in the grand scheme of things when it comes to how things look.

    This entire dog and pony show sickens me when our troops don’t have what they need in the field.

    Put your time and our money to some good use and keep your kids at home teaching them morality Mrs. Lauterbach.

    Harman and Turner can both use an intervention. I’m sitting down to give it to them now.

    Good day.

    Comment by Caring1 — August 1, 2008 @ 7:02 am

  63. Since I’ve followed Maria’s case, I’ve thought that her tendency to lie was a learned behavior. After yesterday, I am more convinced of it.

    There was absolutey no value added to Mary’s testimony by her inserting that Gabriel would have been her first grandchild, other than she was trying to embellish the situation. She could have gotten her point across very well without that untruth.

    Comment by KH — August 1, 2008 @ 8:30 am

  64. Wow. Sooo many things I wish I could respond to in this post. But I dont have the time to write it, and I am sure none of you have the time to read a book.

    First, I am enlisted coming to the end of my second tour, about to resign for a third. Since day one in boot camp, we have been given classes on proper conduct in regards to relationships. Those relationships include everything from a professional working relationship, to romantic ones. So the training is there, or at least I can speak for the Marine Corps. No new law or policy change, is going to help the situation. I am lucky enough to have great parents, and I have been raised to be a gentleman, and treat women with respect. Unfortunately, in today’s society we see that far less. And until that changes, crimes like these being discussed here will continue to occur.

    I feel however, that the military has been unfairly spotlighted recently. Citizens of the United States have to remember one thing, the military is a small sample of our society as a whole. Servicemembers come from every race, and every walk of life. We will have our bad apples, just like anywhere else.

    Hope I kept that short and sweet enough.

    Comment by Transplant — August 1, 2008 @ 9:02 am

  65. Well said Transplant.

    Comment by KH — August 1, 2008 @ 9:47 am

  66. I, too, would like to add a “well said” Transplant and, yes, short and sweet is good.

    I agree that there probably is no change to training or policy that can correct the complex issues of relationships, but I don’t believe that those issues are what these hearings are attempting to look at. I could certainly be wrong there.

    Yes, the military has had a pretty unfair spotlight cast on it as a result of these recent incidents and I can understand the frustration our military members who “toe the line” must feel. I, for one, hold all of you “good apples” in very high esteem (I’m former AF myself) and thank you for your service, especially in such difficult times. My best wishes to you and yours!

    Comment by R356 — August 1, 2008 @ 10:06 am

  67. Transplant, good post. Being a former Marine, I know the training we received. It was a yearly brief that everyone in my unit would receive-regardless of rank. They brought in military and civilians to talk to us about sexual assault, harassment, rape, sodomy. And like you have said, the military has their bad apples just as the civilian society has there’s. Unfortunately, violent crimes are always going to be around. Thank you for continuing to serve our country!

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 1, 2008 @ 11:13 am

  68. Ann, and Transplant, caring 1 is sitting down to give the good congresspersons an intervention. Sure hope those on the Hill take notice and don’t spout off anything more before looking into the situation. I am absolutely baffled by why Mary would say “first grandchild,” unless, if Annie’s baby was adopted, Mary feels that Christopher is no longer “hers.” Very puzzling, but then, what’s new there??

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 2:08 pm

  69. Justice, I read caring1s’ comment and I don’t understand what he/she nor you are getting at in regards to caring1 sitting down to give the good congresspersons and intervention. Would you be so kind as to explain?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 1, 2008 @ 2:20 pm

  70. Anonymous. Mary Lauterbach spoke in Congress and referred to Maria’s baby as “my first grandchild.” However, her other daughter, Ann, had a little boy in 2007, so that would be the first grandchild. However, I believe that little boy may have been placed into an adopted family, my idea was that that is what might explain Mary’s statement. It does seem untruthful for Mary to say that, though, unless there is a good reason.

    I understood caring 1 to mean, also, that a great deal of energy is being spent (in Congress, as well as in the MC) on this case. Nothing, of course, is too much to do to bring criminals to justice. However, the time, effort, and tax dollars that might be spent on the “new measures” might be better spent to ensure the military, particularly troops in combat zones, and those preparing to deploy have the manpower and materiel needed for successful defense of our interests.

    Simply put, anon. we aren’t totally sure what happened with Maria/Cesar and the “rape” case. It seems she reported him as raping her, then said he stopped when she asked, then said the baby couldn’t have been his…..Now, I do understand about people being intimidated by threats, both spoken and implicit, but the MC and Congress aren’t in the business of mind reading and crystal ball gazing. They represent us, the people, and their responsibility is to carry out the wishes of their constituents. Having said that, of course, there are different committees and other bodies in Congress because they have to get the work done and each doesn’t always act alone. But before any committee or group can act on anything, they need to have correct information. I am one of quite a few who feel that the “trumped didn’t give a very stead sound” with what Maria reported.
    They just can’t (in the case of the MC) and just shouldn’t (in the case of Congres) start using Maria’s case to illustrate how the current DOD-wide regulations are inadequate. The inference is that the regs. just weren’t adequate and hence she is dead. All of us can feel the horror of Maria’s death, and want real justice, and also want to make sure it doesn’t happen again at all, to anyone, for any reason, because there isn’t a reason that justifies murdering someone, AND a precious baby, who could have lived. My feelings are that with what they had to go on, NCIS did everything they could have done. I know I sould like a broken record, and am kind of “talkative” but as I have said before, IF Maria had gone immediately to the hospital, dispensary, or even civilian hospital ER with tattered and torn clothing, scratches, bruises, twigs/leaves/dust/grime/etc., on her clothing and told them her story, there is no doubt at all that Cesar would quickly have been asked for an explanation!!!!! If she had then said she was afraid of him, they probably would have put him in the brig until the case could come up. IMO they had a hard time getting the article 32 hearing on the road because (1) the CO wanted to get it arranged, but the NCIS’ evidence wasn’t really strong.

    I feel uncomfortable with Maria’s case being used as THE case in point for improved regulations for sexual assault, because we don’t have EVIDENCE of that assault. Now, I have stated that I wasn’t there and don’t know firsthand, but as I read it that is how it appears to me. I am the usual, average, literate person and if it looks like that to me, it will probably look like that to others, particularly those congresspeople who seem to be raching off after what looks to be an imaginary fox. I wish they had used the cases of others. There was a woman who did testify. I think that was the one who was assaulted during her sleep. However, the perpetrator was put out of the military.

    Hope this explains what you asked, anon.

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 3:57 pm

  71. Anon, sorry, got carried away in a torrent of words. I believe caring 1 meant he/she is going to write and lay it out for the congresspersons.

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 3:58 pm

  72. “trumpet” didn’t give a very steady sound” and “racing off after what looks like an imaginary fox.” sorry.

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 4:03 pm

  73. I am aware that there are a lot of problems with the Military covering up bad stuff..and it needs dealt with,,,,However this does anger me especially in a time of WAR with this kind of publicity; I bet the Anti American Propaganda loves this.
    If you are angry about the Laws,,, not just Mary representing the military ,,, I would go after the rights for the Military to govern themselves and remind them that they need PROPER APPEARANCES to win the hearts and minds of the civilians overseas .
    My one son is Army PSYOP and mentioned that a major objective he needed to overcome in 2004-2005. was why our press and government lied to us concerning the mind set of the Iraq population ,,,Congress loves to empower themselves above the Military… and they really hurt our soldiers,,,
    Back to the subject. Rape and Harassment is already against the Law,,, What is going to happen with more laws DUUUUU all the sudden the rapist will decide not to rape (sarcasm )

    I think if you go after Mary’s testimony it will give the Congressman what they want…
    THEY WILL BE protecting Mary… I am sure they know that Mary has had another Grandchild ,,,,it will be old news to them … I am sure the reason we saw Mary was because her daughter is a High Profile case…make her not count,,,,. Give them a case that Worked, Show them examples of men and woman who were punished. Remind them that Congress is there to protect our freedoms and all Laws passed must follow under our fundamental rights. One of them being “Innocent until proven guilty”

    I have a little more faith in the Jury Members and do not believe the Lauterbach will win unless their was a real problem …then.. and only then should the individuals that screwed up be responsible…. We must remember, to many Laws and Regulations actually create these types of problems… Our laws are designed to protect the innocent. that means more guilty will go free than Imprisoned Innocent people, and I do judge this as good….Our money need put into enforcement not creating systems.
    I know my kids have said, they only wanted to deploy with Marines\Soldiers that wanted to be there… otherwise send them home… Let the individual that is having a hard time adjusting quit…. Or remain and face the perpetrator

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 1, 2008 @ 5:26 pm

  74. mastiffs, there was a woman who also testified. She was assaulted while she slept and the perpetrator was a flight something or another (made me think he was AF.) At any rate, I read it the other day and can’t for the life of me find it again!!!! She fought back tears as she said, “he comes after me in my dreams.” Now, there was a case that worked because he was dismissed from the service. I certainly agree that ONLY those who are stedfast ought to be “in the thick of it.” Imagine being under fire with someone who just didn’t want to be there…. I suppose nobody at all really wants to be in a combat situation, but that’s what bravery really means, going on and doing what you need to do despite everything. Fearlessness is something else again and I don’t really know anybody at all who is fearless!!

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 5:48 pm

  75. And, yes, mastiffs, all that new paperwork is just bound to impress rapists with the futility of trying it!!!! I expect assaults will plummet to zero in the first five minutes!!!!!

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 5:49 pm

  76. The woman who also testified is Ingrid Torres who was on a base in Korea working with the American Red Cross. The perpetrator was a flight dirrector, found guilty and dismissed from the Air force. The link is the one above, but here it is again.

    In Ms. Torres’ case the system did work. The rapist was prosecuted. So, the Congresspersons can see that the system works, as long as it has the required info.

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/31/military.sexabuse/

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 5:57 pm

  77. justice4all
    Thanks now that we estabished schooling and regulations will stop al rapes LOL
    Thanks For the link

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 1, 2008 @ 6:37 pm

  78. Most rapists convicted in civilian courts go to jail, not just lose their job.

    Comment by walker — August 1, 2008 @ 6:55 pm

  79. LOL at J4A! The rapists will run in fear now.

    Comment by Caring1 — August 1, 2008 @ 7:24 pm

  80. Didn’t M

    Comment by Anonymous — August 1, 2008 @ 7:26 pm

  81. oops….didn’t Mary try to get Maria to give the baby up when it was born? Maybe Mary will donate her publicity earnings to a rape crisis center…..LOL

    Comment by Anonymous — August 1, 2008 @ 7:28 pm

  82. walker , you make a good point, I (as a civilian) have the option of informing my boss on any personal matter, If I would be raped , as long as I can go to work and perform, my boss does not need to know . In the Military everything is at risk… I guess I would support the freedom for Military personal to report rape or any violent crime to the Civilian Law enforcement,, There they could seek legal counsel , there options for a personal discharge or personal protection,,, Evidence collected etc…. all before reporting to the Military etc… Maybe that would help eliminate some of the stress for the victim.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 1, 2008 @ 7:52 pm

  83. If I was raped, I would let my boss know as to why I might take a few days off from work, as I am sure I would be traumatized.

    Your suggestion is a good one… crime, whether perpetuated in a civilian area or a military one, should be treated the same and by the same LE.

    Comment by walker — August 1, 2008 @ 8:25 pm

  84. Walker, I pro would tell my boss too, however it is nice to have the option

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 1, 2008 @ 9:35 pm

  85. Anon. As far as I recall there was a phone conversation between Mary and Maria in which Mary is reportedly supposed to have urged Maria to place the baby for adoption because she, Maria, would not be able to look after him/her. I believe Maria was disturbed about the phone conversation because she told someone about it, and I think that someone was her roomie, Sgt. Durham. As a matter of fact, most moms would “explore the options” with a daughter in that spot. Try to brainstorm all the ‘new realities’ of each situation and carefully help the daughter to decide what she thinks would be the very best thing for baby and herself. It isn’t a decision that anyone can make for anybody else, and it certainly isn’t something that has a “should” or an “ought” to it. Once the decision has been made, whatever decision that is, support needs to be given. Unless, in a case where the daughter more or less says, “Well mom, I’ll be bringing baby home from the hospital and it’s all yours to do whatever needs to be done while I run off and party and socialize!!!!” Of course in such a case the mom would have to make it very clear that the daughter is the mom, and needs to rearrange her priorities to care for her baby.

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 9:51 pm

  86. justice4all
    I think your right, even though it hurt my heart to hear her say 1st grandchild. (mostly because Ann Heard that) , I think Mary was a little attached to the other little boy and I am sure,, DEEP Down she was looking forward to having Gabriel in her life…Even though she thought it was better to give him up.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 1, 2008 @ 10:38 pm

  87. And I am sure Mary did not want to raise Gabriel

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 1, 2008 @ 10:39 pm

  88. Well, we have pretty well worked over the victim’s mom and anybody else connected with the Lauterbach family. Can we look at the accused’s family for a while?

    Comment by walker — August 1, 2008 @ 10:49 pm

  89. Walker, you are right and Thank You

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 1, 2008 @ 10:57 pm

  90. Walker , In spite of what Mary said , I have NEVER heard her lie , and I have known her for almost 50 years,,, I am sure that she was thinking of being part of this grandchild’s life. However she misspoke. (and I do feel anger, because she had represented herself so poorly) My hubby did scold me a little and remind me of who she is , and to have the compassion for what she is going through. She probably did few Gabriel as the 1st grandchild in her day to day life

    I am positive she is trying to make something good out of something bad.
    She has weathered Death threats, criticism, and the loss of her child and grandchild….
    I would be curled up into a ball , never to bring my head up again if I was her

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 1, 2008 @ 11:12 pm

  91. Sorry I meant She probably did view Gabriel

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 1, 2008 @ 11:14 pm

  92. Oh, mastiffs, there is no doubt at all how much she would feel for each grandchild.

    For a new mom to place her precious baby into another mom’s arms is the most courageous and unselfish act. It is a true sacrifice. I can scarcely imagine the feelings of Ann’s heart as she did so. I hope the new family will raise little Christopher to respect and appreciate his mom’s decision, and to know that she acted for his best interests.
    Ann deserves a round of applause for being able to do that.

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 11:43 pm

  93. Walker, we just don’t know anything much about the Laureans. There was a little bit about them at the very beginning of the case, but nothing much. They are from Mexico, of course, and Cesar graduated high school in Nevada.

    Comment by justice4all — August 1, 2008 @ 11:48 pm

  94. egads…

    Comment by walker — August 1, 2008 @ 11:51 pm

  95. I can’t even fathom what the Lauterbach family has been through. It amazes me that people want to drag them down because they are trying to make military procedures better for rape victims.

    Ok, so the Laurean family lives in Nevada. That is all we know? Have they made a statement?

    Comment by walker — August 1, 2008 @ 11:55 pm

  96. Walker, they are mute. I don’t know if they still live in Nevada, or wherever else. Some time back there was a comment that in 2006 they sold their home and satisfied a hospital bill. I can’t provide a link or reference for that, though. Of course, they are from Mexico and things are very different down there so they may be keeping a low profile so that nothing at all could hurt their son. Our concept of being able to say what we want to say without fear of reprisals just might seem too good to be true to them. Also, they probably don’t quite know what to think. Certainly they haven’t come out and spouted off in glowing terms about all the wonderful things their boy has done, as daddy Wimunc has done.

    Comment by justice4all — August 2, 2008 @ 12:06 am

  97. Dad was Salvadore and mom was Elvira, sister was Blanca. There might be other siblings but we haven’t heard of them. Wifey was Christina Sue Smith Laurean and baby was Abrianna Sue.

    Comment by justice4all — August 2, 2008 @ 12:09 am

  98. Walker, I didn’t mean to imply that the home sale was to pay off the hospital, just that those were the only two transactions that I have heard of for the senior Laureans.

    Comment by justice4all — August 2, 2008 @ 12:11 am

  99. It seems odd to me that there is NOTHING in the news about the Laurean family. Maybe Lindell could check that out?

    Comment by walker — August 2, 2008 @ 12:21 am

  100. Walker, they are probably cringing at the thought that soon just about everything about them will be in the media.

    Comment by justice4all — August 2, 2008 @ 12:27 am

  101. I don’t expect the Laurean family, or Christina’s family to come forward, for that matter. However it is odd that the media hasn’t uncovered anything. Surely people know these folks from high school, etc…..

    Comment by walker — August 2, 2008 @ 12:43 am

  102. Okay, let’s talk about the Laureans. What’s new wtih Chrissy? Did she get in any kind of trouble by the military, when she communicated with her fugitive AWOL husband and didn’t let anyone other than her family (Amber and possibly Tyler) know about it until the raid? Is the USMC going to let honorable Chrissy and Amber (being very facitious here) remain in the USMC? Hopefully not, because they clearly don’t represent the core values of the USMC. I sure hope the leadership at Lejeune didn’t just choose to sweep their blunder under the rug.

    Lindell, I doubt youi will find out much about the Mexican part of Cesar’s family (I have looked and looked myself), surely there is some local scoop about Christina.

    Is the house in foreclosure? Is Chissy still in the area or did she high tail it to Ohio to where her parents live?

    Comment by KH — August 2, 2008 @ 8:36 am

  103. Her parents still live in Ohio. I thought they lived in NC didn’t cesar barrow thier truck?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 2, 2008 @ 9:44 am

  104. Her father, step father and mother all live in Ohio. I believe Mentor and Prospect. The SUV was registerd in Chrissy’s father’s name, but I think he pretty much gave it to her long term to drive. Cesar’s truck was registered in his father’s name and he lives in Nevada.

    Comment by KH — August 2, 2008 @ 11:52 am

  105. Okay that make sense

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 2, 2008 @ 12:13 pm

  106. Just for clarity on my thoughts, There is a BIG difference between changing\creating laws. And enforcing the current Laws,
    I see in the initial reports the Local LE had a hard time getting the information from the military concerning Cesar’s name etc ,,this did delay the local LE initial investigation, The Military did not flag her account\therefore they were unaware of Cesar’s attempt to withdraw dollars 14 days after she went missing, nor was NCIS informed that Maria missed her last OB appointment, Remember the Lauterbach spent 3 weeks in frustration trying to get the Militaries Cooperation ,,, that is why they initially went to the press… and then the Military came out with a statement of extreme posturing ,,,, Please not misunderstand… I do not blame the Military for Maria’s Death, nor do I think NEW LAWS need created, but I do think the personnel involved should look at their response to Maria’s claim, and relies even girls with problems can be Victims…actually it is the average profile of a victim. I do think she was probably raped and I do think she was Harassed, (there is nothing in Cesar’s or Christiana behavior that would indicate they were emotionally stable. Actually quite the opposite, they had dinner over a dead girl and her babies body,,, grant it, the NCIS was not able to foresee that) Bottom Line is they did not follow the CURRNET protocol and I do think that needs a reprimand\Consequence. I do not think the above is a proper representation of the Military as a whole, and I do understand why they did not respond aggressively towards Cesar. However I think we will find out SO MUCH MORE as this case is brought to light. Do Not be fooled by the private meeting in Congress, if there was not more to the story she would not have the attention. Again I do not think more laws will correct the issue at hand, However I understand the Lauterbach’s need for an investigation

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 2, 2008 @ 1:08 pm

  107. Yeah and I think proper medical evaluations should be done before parents unleash their kids on the military too. It seems some people think they can send them off while thinking they’re bipolar and the kids steal money from the military and still keep on a big roll of destruction.

    Then they meet up with a creep and lie again and now we are going to give them a new base station, come on let’s get real.

    Comment by snickers — August 2, 2008 @ 2:11 pm

  108. Well, based on the note Durham turned over to the military, they had every reason to believe Maria was UA. And they don’t come looking for you, flag your accounts, or anything of the sort. Based on their belief that Cesar never violated the MPO, why would they think he would do anything? According to what the head of NCIS said…the local LE had Cesar’s name on the 19th of Dec-the same day Mary reported her missing. Sheriff Brown said he didn’t know Cesar’s name until early January. Just because he found out then, doesn’t mean the detectives didn’t have Cesar’s name. As far as Mary getting military cooperation, she was told to file a missing person’s report b/c the military isn’t able to do so. But I can tell you what, if my child went missing, noone would tell me to not come look for them. I would be on the next flight out or in my car on the way. I wouldn’t let anyone tell me otherwise. And if my child told me they were raped, I would be on the way to help them as well.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 2, 2008 @ 3:57 pm

  109. What should one do if they are Active Duty and they are raped by another Service Member, while out in town? Should they contact the local authorities and go to the nearest hospital, or should they report to the Naval Hospital and have it reported to PMO/NCIS?

    Comment by Jan — August 2, 2008 @ 5:43 pm

  110. Mastiffs,

    The Marine Corps did follow protocol with Maria’s rape allegation. She reported it to her OIC, the OIC notified the victim’s advocate, who in turn notified NCIS. That is the protocol. Based on Maria’s previous lying and stealing episodes, some people would not have even went that far for her and chalked it up as another lie. Don’t say that they did not follow protocol, when you don’t know what the protocol is. Lauterbach being killed is a horrible tragedy, that will remain in the hearts and minds of her co-workers and Marine Corps leadership for a long time. Noone would have ever expected Laurean to have any involvement in anything that is happening now. I feel for her family and their terrible loss, but them going to Congress looking to change the way the military deals with sexual assault is going to backfire on them. Laurean was never charged with rape. What if there is solid proof that he never raped her? Then what are they going to say? Unfortunately, Maria was not emotionally equipped to be away from her family as a young adult, definitely not prepared for the Marine Corps. She did not deserve to die at all, but Mary Lauterbach should not have expected the Marine Corps to be a babysitting service for her troubled child.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 2, 2008 @ 6:16 pm

  111. Jan, you would report it to the proper autorities that has the juristiction to investigate etc. in the place the crime happened. In the case you mention it would be the civilian LE. Active duty should also let their command know. It’s a very fine line for the military to cross and conduct investigations or take LE actions in the civilian sector as it is for the civilian LE to do the same on base.

    Comment by Nehi — August 2, 2008 @ 6:30 pm

  112. All I intend to imply is that the Military was Passive (not aggressive) after Maria went missing and I understand the frustration…
    Read the Marine’s quote below. They did not take Mary’s concern seriously either. I understand Mary’s anger towards the Marines

    The Military talks about Mary’s Concern and shows little cooperation because of their vacation,,, There is an ATM withdrawal of $700 from LCpl Lauterbach’s account. Transaction occurs in Jacksonville. Video surveillance confirms LCpl Lauterbach makes the withdrawal. The ATM information is not provided to the command until January 9th

    On Saturday, December 15th, Greyhound bus records reflect a ticket is purchased in LCpl Lauterbach’s name for one way to El Paso, Texas departing that evening. Ticket is not redeemed. Command is not notified of this information until January 9th.
    The command is notified about the cell phone recovery and the circumstance surrounding the recovery on January 9th.
    On Monday, December 24th, 2007, an unidentified male withdraws $400 from Lauterbach’s account. Location is Western Blvd, Jacksonville. The command is notified on January 9th.
    On Wednesday, December 26th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach does not attend a scheduled OB appointment at the Naval Hospital, Camp Lejeune. Command is not aware of this until January 9th. The Christmas Holiday liberty period ends at

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 2, 2008 @ 7:27 pm

  113. Aono, I do agree tthat new laws will not help etc….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 2, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

  114. mastiffs. The USMC does not have the authority to do investigations in the civilian sector!!!!! The military was not passive in their conduct. They were following the rules in regulations regarding UA Marines. Regs set forth by higher headquarters and DOD. If I recall an investigation conducted concluded that the Marine Corps had done everything in accordance with those rules and regulations. The Marine Corps never takes a vacation, but, I’m just going to take that as a civilian not understanding the holiday leave and liberty for the military. The investigation/search for Maria fell in the hands in the local LE. Was it not the Marine Corps that advised Mary to call the local authorities to report Maria missing since the USMC could not go looking for in accordance with the regs? Did they not send Marines to Marias home to check to see if she was there? Had Maria not been UA before that time? Why didn’t Sgt Durham report her note immediately or why didn’t Mary report it? They were afraid of getting Maria into trouble because of her past military record. Even both Sgt D and Mary thought she would return. Why didn’t Mary get herself to Jacksonville immediately after she was informed by the USMC that Maria had been listed at UA? Mary can point fingers solely at the USMC all she wants, but, in truth she needs to look everywhere else to include herself. You just answered a question that’s been hanging over my head when you stated that: “I understand Mary’s anger towards the Marines”. I understand what she is attempting to accomplish, I really do . What I don’t like the way she is going about it by publicly convicting a person that hasn’t even made it to trial, or the way she is protraying that Maria was raped without proof, or the way she changes her “perception” of things to fit her “picture when the whole country has heard her state various things only to turn around later and in a sense “re-write” her statement. Her agenda is clear to me now. She wants vindication and she wants it from the USMC. Referencing her tv appearance where she stated that she wasn’t mad at Cesar made my jaw drop. She’s not blaming the alleged killer I see now. She’s blaming the USMC for a murder they couldn’t see coming, for a rape that most probable didn’t happen, for Cesars alleged actions and for Marias possible untruths when she made the allegations.

    Comment by Nehi — August 2, 2008 @ 8:16 pm

  115. When is Mary going to stop blaming the military for her poor parenting skills and mentorship? I suppose she has a lot of guilt that she needs to deflect.

    Under no circumstance did Maria or her unborn child deserve to be murdered, but her tendcy to lie did not help matters at all!!!!! It is obvious, especially from Mary’s lie during her testimony to Congress, that Maria learned to lie from the people closest to her.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 2, 2008 @ 8:34 pm

  116. Great post Nehi!

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 2, 2008 @ 8:43 pm

  117. Gee Wiz, you can not understand being frustrated with the inability to get info concerning your missing daughter WOW!

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 2, 2008 @ 10:19 pm

  118. Ok – I’ll try to keep this short and sweet.

    First, if I read one more time that Maria didn’t deserve to be murdered, but…… I think I’ll burst. THERE IS NO BUT! EVER!

    Second, I understand everyone’s defense of the Marines/NCIS. However, there is no way that anyone here (definitely including me) has anything close to full story of what occurred between May and December of 07. We have a very thin sketchy official version of things that was presented and some hearsay scattered around and that’s all. How can it be concluded that everyone did everything they could and/or should have without really knowing exactly what they did or did not do? I also understand why they can’t release this information at this time. I’m not saying that anyone did anything wrong, just that I’ll reserve my conclusions for when the whole story is revealed, if that ever happens.

    Comment by R356 — August 2, 2008 @ 11:16 pm

  119. As I was skimming through these post concerning that poor girl, I was amazed at some of the comments, shocked & amazed,,,
    1. Are some of you seriousley defending this Murderer??? You talk about the proof he raped her, the proof is her dead body, PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION, to go anywhere else w/this is foolish…

    2. As a few of you attempt to discredit the mother, I can only wonder how exact and precise your speach your Memory and how clear your thought process would be after your Daughter and Grandson were slaughtered and burnt in a pit? I wonder…I also wonder what type of person would spend their time trying to discredit and anyalize every word and action of someone under this amount of stress, or better yet PAIN, and make no mistake this type of PAIN causes tremendous stress… I think a few of you have to be related to the Murderer and yes he is a MURDERER… and if your not releated OMG, go talk to someone get some help please you seriousley need it.

    I don’t usually post to these types of conversations but I jus had to add my 2 cents…

    Comment by I have to add my 2 cents — August 2, 2008 @ 11:24 pm

  120. [quote]“You talk about the proof he raped her, the proof is her dead body, PERIOD, END OF DISCUSSION, to go anywhere else w/this is foolish… “[/quote]

    Please tell me how you arrive at your conclusion? There have not been any charges against Laurean for rape or sexual assault. By Maria’s own statements she had consensual sex with Laurean and later she consented then changed her mind, told him to stop and he did. There was no evidence that Laurean raped her. It is entirely possible that had there been an Article 32 held, Maria would have found herself facing charges for making a false report.

    As for your contention that her dead body is proof that he murdered her…well there has been no trial held…Laurean has not been convicted of her murder. As yet he is accused of her murder, but it has not been proven BARD in a court of law that he murderd her. Why did Maria go to the Laurean home of her own free will, if Cesar had indeed raped her? That is something totally out of character for a rape victim..

    There were no rape charges against Laurean because there wasn’t any evidence. The State of North Carolina has yet to try Laurean in their court system. No one here is defending Laurean, they are defending his right to a fair and impartial trial., not convict him in the court of individual opinion.

    Mary Lauterbach is determined to try Laurean in the media and in the halls of Congress. She is also determined to put the entire blame for her daughter’s death on the USMC. She has consistenly changed aspects of her story in order to justify her actions. In the beginning Mary told the world that Maria was a compulsive liar, hyperactive and agressive as well as possibly being bipolar. And now she expects people to accept what Maria told her in telephone calls as the absolute truth. What Mary keeps repeating for the media is her interpretation and version of what Maria might have meant when she spoke to her. Much of what Maria allegedly told Mary has been proven false by Maria’s own statements to NCIS and JAG as well as the USMC. Mary testified before Congress that Maria was ordered by the USMC to attend the unit Christmas Party on December 14, 2007. But the USMC repeatedly told Maria that she did not have to attend any function where she would come in contact with Laurean. Either she or Laurean would be excused. And USMC records show that Maria opted to be excused several times, so she understood that she was not ordered to attend any function with Laurean. Mary testified that the USMC ignored threats against Maria. And yet Maria never reported any threats made against her.

    Mary Lauterbach has changed her story, just as Maria had changed hers, until it seems that they both have credibility issues.

    Since you obviously have some issues in regards the American Legal System and the acceptance that a person is innocent until proven BARD guilty, perhaps a basic class in American Ciics and Civil Rights would help your understanding.

    Comment by Gemstone — August 3, 2008 @ 12:33 am

  121. 2cents, whether or not he raped her can’t be proven, but she is indeed dead. My feeling about Mary Lauterbach going to Congress is that the case cannot be used there as an example of anything at all because Laurean hasn’t been convicted of anything at all. For Congress to proceed, as it seems to be doing, presupposes Laurean’s guilt. That could be construed as “being tried in the Congress.” We have seen, (cnn news article) that not obeying a Congressional Subpoena is taken very seriously by the Congresspersons!!! Therefore their presupposing Cesar Laurean guilty is also to be taken very seriously. What if Cesar’s lawyers just said, “Well, since he has already been proclaimed guilty by the highest body in the land, we can’t hope for a fair trial and we move for a dismissal?” If Mary Lauterbach really wants justice to be done, she might be better not to get the Congresspersons to make rules and regulations based Maria’s “rape and murder.” She has stated very plainly that she feels the Marine Corps did not do enough to protect Maria, and now Maria is dead. If this mushrooms up to be a large “Maria Lauterback and Cesar Laurean” publicly proclaimed issue, could judges conclude that Cesar can’t be tried because he’s already been found guilty? Maybe let him go on time served in Mexico? Kind of a sobering thought for me because I treasure our system of law and feel everyone is entitled to a fair trial. I am not defending anyone, or criticizing anyone, just trying to be Constitutional.

    Comment by justice4all — August 3, 2008 @ 3:14 am

  122. Gemstone, WELL said. Maria was taught it is okay to lie, cheat, and even accuse someone of something without the facts. Listen to Mary on all her interviews. Some folks just don’t get it. The USMC is not a daycare center and it is not a therapeutic center for troubled adults. I have lived the corps all my life and you will always have the ones that came in the corps to ‘get away’ and the ones that came in to be a real troop. imo, Maria came in to get away. I will never believe CL murdered her, never believe he raped her. I believe he had used her atm card before and the secret id was given to him by Maria……because they were a fling. They were buddies. As for CL’s family, thay are imo very disturbed over the situation they are in and they choose to stay out of the media. Smart family folks. I have voiced my opinion before on Christina and it hasn’t changed. As for Mary L……I repeat the USMC is for real men and women, not a daycare or mental center. Stop blaming our Corps policies. Had the corps moved her to another base, SHE would have cried disrimination because CL wasn’t transferred. Maria was just the type……drama queen. Did she ask for a new duty station? Why not sit back and ask yourself where Maria went wrong? And try to use her mistakes to help the rest of the family and maybe future grand children, IF they don”t get adopted parents?imo…Maria came form a disfunctional background. It is sad her life ended the way it did. I think she played a huge part in that. We are all still waiting to see if in fact Gabriel was CL’s. Mary can you offer any clues?

    Comment by Happy — August 3, 2008 @ 8:29 am

  123. Does anyone else wonder how much of Mary and Peter’s account regarding Maria’s early childhood, prior to becoming a Lauterbach, are completely accurate , or was the scenario embellished for effect? Mary seems to be a bit of a storyteller herself. I sure don’t know what to believe from this woman and I have to assume others feel the same. In my opinion, she should remove herself from the media spotlight, otherwise, she will undoubtedly get caught in more mistruths and further damage her credibility.

    Comment by Learn to tell the truth Mary — August 3, 2008 @ 9:07 am

  124. What I hear all of you saying is if the Marine Corp said it , it is true. I Know that Marine Corp was honest when they said they did not think the rape occurred… Are you telling me they could not have been wrong?

    Are you telling me that Cesar was not a type of individual that would be capable of such an act? I have read nothing here that says the MC was responsible for the Murder or rape. I only see that some here (including me ) feel that Maria being murdered states that someone was threatening to her and who ever killed her had a personality that would be likely to rape…
    Happy Question: If Maria could speak now and say she was murdered would you believe her, or would you say
    “Why not sit back and ask yourself where Maria went wrong? And try to use her mistakes to help the rest of the family and maybe future grand children, IF they don”t get adopted parents?imo…Maria came form a disfunctional background. It is sad her life ended the way it did. I think she played a huge part in that.”

    Look up Victims Profiles , a professional should know what that is , Maria does fit the profile as YOU describe her.
    It is not unreasonable for the MC to have been wrong… it does not mean they murdered her…. However, If you want to investigate,,,, Hearsay only speaks to the believes of the individuals involved and Physical evidence speaks to the actual act.

    Lack of physical Evidence does not mean something did not happen, nor does Maria’s past…. It only provides the reason why the MC did what they did. If you read the statement in Congress they are not speaking to weather Maria was raped or not.. only to the process
    RELAX: I am sure a trial between the Marine Corp and Lauterbach will bring out the truth and if you are right there is no way they can win…..
    Have you considered that a Prestigious law firm took the case on Contingency… (will not be paid unless they win) I do not know for sure…. But if they did or the lauterbachs are paying…. Either way it does speak to the fact they believe they can win… all the folks involved also think they can win….I don’t think they could win based upon the information WE have,,, so that means they have more evidence than we know

    Concerning the statement of a fair trial, if you read the post, I do think we are irrelevant. We are a very small sampling. But your right , there is anger when we say Maria is inocent

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 9:56 am

  125. Not every murderer is a rapist and not every rapist is a murderer. People will believe she was raped because she was murdered. Fine, and at first I thought the same thing. But when her allegations changed, stories changed, and from what the case agent said…he stopped when asked-how is that rape? Cesar-and anyone else involved-could have killed Maria in May when the allegations were made, in June when she found out she was pregnant…and any time in between. Why wait until December? What triggered in December that would cause the murder? Am I related to Cesar…nope sure am not. Am I related to Christina…nope sure am not. I have stated my opinions on them, however the article wasn’t about them. The article was about Mary. I feel for the family and what they are going through. As a parent, you always feel you will die before your children.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 9:56 am

  126. Keep in mind there are 2 rape alligations , 2 seperate rapes

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 9:59 am

  127. Mastiff’s, who has lawyers on contigency? Mary’s lawyers? It is just as possible that Maria was raped, just as it’s entirely possible she wasn’t. But the words from Maria’s own mouth-from the very beginning, illustrate that that she wasn’t. She had consensual sex with Cesar in March and then sometime 2 weeks later he tried, she asked to stop and he did. That is what she said. But it was the 2nd encounter that was being investigated. How if he stopped when asked is that rape?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 10:01 am

  128. Ann ,,,Laughterbachs Have a Lawyer

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 10:05 am

  129. I will find the articles on the 2 rapes, however the MC only focuses and give Public info one one of them

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 10:06 am

  130. Yes, I know the Lauterbachs have lawyers…I was asking if those are the ones on contigency? The Marine Corps stated in their press conference that Maria reported 2 cases of sexual assault. One in March and another about 2 weeks later in April. They said the first encounter was considered consensual and the second encounter he stopped when asked.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 10:08 am

  131. I state that weather they are contigency or not , it makes the same point. I am sure they are expensive

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 10:11 am

  132. if you think it is possable for Maria to have been raped, then why if someone thinks she probably was do you get so angry?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 10:16 am

  133. I don’t get angry…everyone is entitled to their opinion. I just try to point out what has been said. She could have been raped but based on what has been said from the beginning, I don’t feel she was.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 10:18 am

  134. Fair enough, I do see it differently though

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 10:20 am

  135. This Lauterbach case certainly has all of us asking alot of the same questions. Patience everyone, until it finally comes to trial!!!! At this point, I don’t really know who did what to who, that is what our judicial system is for, and they will handle that. I just know that I have seen one particular player in this case, continue to lie, on camera, and get away with it.

    I did mention earlier in this blog, that I had a friend in the military, who was beaten/ raped. The rapist was an ex boyfriend, who she had relations with before. However, her once pretty face, was scared from the beating, and along with emotional scars, asked for a transfer to another base, closer to her home of record. The boyfriend had no previous record, was an outstanding troop. Both were single, Sgts living out in town. The only thing that saved her life, was some martial arts training. She planted one in the groin, which gave her some time to run over to my apt. We called the local police, went to the hosptial, her command was immediately notified.

    So, for my friend, and all of the other military/civilian women who have been raped, it is a true injustice to be represented by a liar.

    Comment by unenlisted — August 3, 2008 @ 11:01 am

  136. unenlisted, are you upset with the procedures that Mary is trying to pass, or the fact Mary is the one representing the change

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 11:52 am

  137. mastiffs, I have stated my military background before. Was a military brat myself, went into the Army, out of HS, for the college bennies, admin clerk, end of Vietnam War. Married, both got out of service. Went back to college divorced, went into the Marines, admin clerk again, Maria’s same MOS. She and I both went to Parris Island, Camp Johnson school, diff time, but both ended up at LeJeune. I did do a stint in Oki before coming here. I was never in her type of situations, but have known plenty of military females who have been. Single, pregnant, sometimes involved with married men. The perfect recipe for disaster. Emotionally, physically, and career ending. So, I am not going to sit on a high horse, because of my military background, and pretend that females don’t get into some hinky situations.

    I think you have mentioned before that you know Mary. Then please fill me in on what makes her do and say the things she does? I am all for something being done about the ever increasing rape/assault cases in the military. I just do not feel that she is into it 100%, because of her past actions. I certainly know that she has suffered an enormous amount of pressure, grief, the case going national, and all. I guess she just reacts to situations differently from most others, and with that said, it wanes my confidence in her. Maybe you can change my mind.

    Comment by unenlisted — August 3, 2008 @ 12:23 pm

  138. There were two separate encounters of a sexual nature, but Mary is only addressing one. In her interview with the Dayton Daily News Mary states that Maria called her weeping saying that she was “attacked”. When asked by Mary when, Maria answers “April 10th”. Maria only told Mary about ONE encounter on April 10th.

    Mary orders Maria to go to her command and report the April 10 “attack”…she tells them there were TWO encounters of a sexual nature. And the first was consensual and the other he asked her for sex, she said “NO”, he asked her a second time, and she said “NO”, but when he took her to another room and told her they would not get caught, THEY began to have sex and she told him to stop. And he did. That is Maria’s statement to the investigators in her case.

    Mary is the one who insists on speaking only about the one sexual encounter.

    Why do many of us believe that the USMC, NCIS and JAG have said is the truth? Could it be that they have written and signed statements, as well as electronic records to back them up. Three individual entities with written and elctronic data to back up what they are say. What reason would they have to fabricate the truth, when their records speak for themselves?

    Nowhere does Maria say that Laurean forced her to have sex. She told Mary she was “attacked”. Yet she told a totally different story to the USMC, NCIS and JAG. A rapist doesn’t ASK you for sex and then take you by the hand and calm your fears by saying “Don’t worry we won’t get caught”, nor does he stop when you tell him to stop. That is not the profile of a rapist. He wants you terrorized, he wants you in fear, he has to control you and force you to submit to him. What Maria describes is more to her being in over her head and upset with herself for being duped. The same scenario is played out every day of the week, we all have made our mistakes in judgement.

    Go back and read some of what Mary said about Maria in high school, she had trouble making friends and dating. She never had a boyfriend. With her stuation, she MAY have had a low self esteem. There are people out in the real world who do take advantage of young women like Maria. She is looking for a man to love her which ends up in a temporary sexual encounter. That is not rape.

    Who was supposed to be threatening her? She never tells anyone that she is frightened or that she was being threatened. She didn’t report the car keying or the assault in barracks parking to the PMO. Why didn’t she call Megan Grafton’s cell phone number asap.

    “who ever killed her had a personality that would be likely to rape” But you don’t know who murdered Maria. Yes, LLEO say they “believe” that they have the evidence that Laurean committed the murder. Just because they believe it doesn’t mean that they can prove that he acted alone or that he was the actual murderer. People have that confused a bit, just because a person is charged with a murder, it does not make them guilty of the crime.

    And why if Maria had been threatened and was “afraid” of Cesar, did she skip the unit Christmas party that she told Mary she was “ordered” to attend and drive to the Laurean household. OBTW both Maria and Laurean were excused from attending any function where they might have contact withone another. Also the USMC ordered Maria and Laurean NOT to have any contact with one another. NCIS has said that they do not find any evidence that Maria was not under any duress nor forced to go to the Laurean’s home. And yet Maria who allegedly was “afraid” and hod been “threatened “, who had allegedly been “raped” by Laurean…ends up at his home. Why did she disobey the direct order not to have contact with Laurean? Why did she defy the “order” to attend the unit Christmas party? Why would an alleged “rape” victim go directly to her alleged “rapist’s” home? Rape victims do not get in their alleged attackers face and provoke a confrontation.

    NCIS has stated that Maria’s case was “getting weaker by the moment”. The evidence theyhad was not enough to take the case to military court. Maria had already told them, just six weeks before she disappeaered, that she was pregnant by another man, that the baby was not Laurean’s. If an Article 32 had been held, she might have found herself in trouble for making a false report. Maybe she did make a false report.

    In the May 10th phone call, Mary gave Maria an ultimatum either admit that your story of being attacked is false, OR report this attack as a rape to your command. So which option do you think Maria did?

    Anyone can find an attorney willing to take their case to court. And the case is always about money. You can’t sue in court for anything but cold hard cash. Pain and suffering is paid off in cash. Loss of life or limb is paid out in cash. Wrongful death is paid out in cash. The plantiff still has to prove it in a court of law. It still comes down to hard, admissible evidence to prove her case in a court of law. Mary”s word against Maria’s written and signed statements. And just for the record, publcity alone in a high profile case is a really good paycheck.

    Comment by Gemstone — August 3, 2008 @ 12:55 pm

  139. unenlisted: To understand my questions,,, concerning weather you are against the Regulations\procedures being addressed in congress, or the fact that Maria’s case is in the lime light?

    I asked the question to better understand your response. I do not think any act of Congress will improve the situation. There are enough Laws and Regulations in place. I think enforcement is where the problem lies. To many Laws gives wiggle room for the defense.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 1:12 pm

  140. Gemstone: Concerning money, That was my point. This case would not be tried by this group of attorneys unless they thought they could win…. However I do not think they can win on the evidence that WE have…

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 1:16 pm

  141. unenlisted: as far as shedding light on what Mary said,,, I can not,,, however I am less critical understand Mary’s life etc… There has been many comments here on how Mary has tried to change the story. I have not seen that, but I was shocked about the 1st Grandchild statement… I can only tell you what I think… I can only say that it would be the 1st Grandchild in her life… maybe that’s what she meant,,, knowing her (my focus is different than a strangers, when I watched the testimony before congress) I JUST SAW HER HANDS SHAKING.. I saw the stress

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 1:32 pm

  142. Did Annie give up her son for adoption at birth or was he a few months old when he was adopted? The reason I ask is that Maria on her MySpace said she couldn’t wait to meet her nephew, Christopher Edward Winkler, which leads me to believe that Annie didn’t give the baby up right away. Maybe, it took Mary awhile to convince Annie that being adopted was the best choice for the baby or maybe the baby’s paternal father caused a delay in the adoption. Either way, tthe baby would have been in Mary’s life for a period of time and personally, if I was in that situation I’d have a hard time denying Christopher’s existence and not consider him the first grandchild. The first grandchild statement seems like an unnecessary slap in the face to Annie and Christopher.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 3, 2008 @ 2:02 pm

  143. Why is the Lauterbach family being “put on trial” here?

    Comment by walker — August 3, 2008 @ 2:18 pm

  144. I don’t think they are being put on trial here. Since this blog is about Mary and her trip to a Congressional hearing, I believe it is relevant to discuss her and her motives, which leads us to discussions, perceptions and options abouit her and her family. Also, I don’t think she is the right person to be marketing the changes she discussed at the hearing. She isn’t credible and unfortunately neither was Maria. Mary can’t even tell the truth about what would have been Gabriel’s birth order, as far as her grandchildren go.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 3, 2008 @ 2:32 pm

  145. the above post should say opinions not options.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 3, 2008 @ 2:37 pm

  146. When asked “You don’t think she has the full story?”
    Megan Grafton has stated “but I know she doesn’t. Because she can’t. Because I’m not legally allowed to tell her the full story.”

    The attorney’s don’t know the full story either. If they had the full story then Mary would have the ful story and she does not. Nothing has been filed in a court of law and until they have the official facts in this case a coiurt case is speculative at best.

    The facts are thatt Maria was under contract to the USMC, yet she broke her contract. Maria had a history of lack of credibility. Maria proved that she had credibility issues, when she consistently changed her official statements to investigators. It has been considered that Maria might have faced discharge based on the possiblity that she had accused Laurean falsley.

    Attorney’s may represent you, yet never file a court case. Money will never prove that Maria was raped or that, as Mary states “There was an assumption from the beginning this was not a legitimate case. ‘ All cases are not considered legitimate until the evidence verifies their legitimacy. And the evidence that Maria supplied just was not adequate.

    Comment by Gemstone — August 3, 2008 @ 3:20 pm

  147. Does anyone here besides the mastiffs think Mary can differentiate between fact and fiction? I sure don’t. The woman is not playing with a full deck and never was as she tried to pawn her problem child off on the marines. Hell, she wouldn’t even answer her calls half the time. This is just another way for her to escape guilt for failing her adopted daughter in her time of need. Maria had no business in the marines and I think Mary and Uncle Pete knew that.

    Mastiff – why is the Mr. almost like an enigma?

    I’ll tell you why I think that is, and it’s because he knows Mary is disingenuous so he isn’t putting his name on it.

    How about a gentle reminder to saintly mother mary about who her first grandchild really was and let her start counting after that. That woman sickens me and I don’t even have a drop of sympathy for her anymore. She has morphed this horror fairytale and it’s all about how it looks to her.

    Well she looks really bad now, I hope she is satisfied and I hope she someday thinks about her first grandchild. She couldn’t even put him in the local obit due to how it would look. Reading the trash her other daughter put on Durham’s site makes me know just how much she instilled in those girls. I’m not so sure they wouldn’t have been better off with their mother.

    Comment by snickers — August 3, 2008 @ 4:19 pm

  148. Like Anon said, we are not putting the Lauterbach’s on trial on this blog. We are discussing the Lauterbach who went in front of Congress on Thursday, to do something about the rapes/assaults on females in the military. Those of us who deeply question her reasoning for doing so, and her honesty, dont’ feel that she is qualifed to stand in front of anyone, especially regarding something as serious as rape. She stated that she did not believe that Maria was raped, when Maria first told her. Now, she does believe that she was raped. She keeps ping ponging back and forth, enough to make a landlubber, like me, seasick.

    Comment by unenlisted — August 3, 2008 @ 5:01 pm

  149. did it ever occure to any of you that Mary’s opinion change may have been do to the information she received during the investigation?

    I still would like to know if any of the above folks agree with the propsals before congress?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 6:38 pm

  150. snickers , do your home work The reason is very obvious why dad is not involved, you are so far off it is funny

    What about you, do you agree with making the changes before congress or not

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 6:50 pm

  151. Mary doesn’t have all of the information regarding the rape allegations because Megan Grafton said she isn’t legally allowed to tell Mary everything. So how can Mary have everything?

    As I, and others, have said, there is always room for improvement on the laws that are already in place. But I don’t think Mary should base her push for better laws based on Maria’s allegations alone. As for the proposals that she’s put before Congress. No, I don’t agree with base transfers based on an allegation alone. Mary speaks about victim advocates not being trained counselors. They do receive training in sexual assault cases. No, perhaps they are not trained therapists but that is why they are there so they can talk, give information to the victim and help get them into a therapy program. Maybe Mary should become a certified rape crisis counselor or perhaps see if she can receive training to be a victim advocate.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 6:55 pm

  152. AnnDaniel
    Did it occur to you the miltary only has the information concerning the rape etc… Mary issue is the process

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 7:04 pm

  153. I don’t get what you’re saying. Of course the military, NCIS have the info regarding the rape. Mary doesn’t have everything on the rape. She might know some things the general public doesn’t know but I don’t believe she has everything.

    Mary’s issue is the process. I understand that. So why isn’t she using other rape cases where the process did or didn’t work. She can’t expect things to be changed based on Maria’s allegations alone. If I’m not mistaken, someone else was there and testified, but this person’s case was prosecuted and the rapist was discharged from the military. So did the process work there or not? Based on the SAPR report that is done yearly, it does look as though those that commit sexual assault-to include rape-is prosecuted. The 8% that the good Congresswoman claims isn’t true from the report I read. So, I don’t know where she is getting her information from.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 7:08 pm

  154. Mastiff’s, another thing I would like to say to you. You asked if it was possible if we thought Maria could have been raped. I was truthful and said yes it was possible. But can’t you afford us the same and admit that it’s just as possible that she wasn’t raped? Or are you so dead against that she was raped and will not look at any other possibilities?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 7:09 pm

  155. That was my first & this is my last posting to this discussion…

    To become obsessed or fixated over one sentence from a grieving Mother is well a little off… Who knows what she was thinking maybe she was thinking this’ll be her first grandson from Maria, who know and better yet WHO CARES… it’s a big deal testifying in front of Congress and now add resent events in her life, well in my opinion she’ll allowed to misspeak… And why is this a topic, instead of the Murderer??? This blog is confusing some of you seem like you have a handle on the real world and the rest well…

    Mary didn’t Murder and burn the corpse of anyone in a fire pit in her back yard & throw a party while her burned victim … It wasn’t Mary’s house & vehicle blood was found in… therefore Mary is a victim… Why are you even discussing anything about Mary? FOOLISH

    Maria didn’t Murder and burn the corpse of anyone in a fire pit in her back yard & throw a party while her burned victim … It wasn’t Maria’s house & vehicle the victims blood was found in… therefore Maria is a victim… Why are you even discussing anything about Maria unless you beleive she did ALL of this to herself (even after she was dead)

    Gabriel didn’t Murder and burn the corpse of anyone in a fire pit in his back yard & throw a party while his victim burned… It wasn’t Gabriel’s house & vehicle the victims blood was found in… therefore Gabriel is a victim… Why are you even discussing anything about Gabriel unless you beleive she did ALL of this to herself (even after he was dead)

    As your attempting to act as though you’re a neutral disinterested party only seeking the facts & the “PC” Justice for All BS, it becomes crystal clear to all who care to see, that you are anything but neutral and disinterested… Why attempt to defend an obvious Murdered… & don’t even try your “PC” BS on me, I’m not mentally retarded & I have no desire to be “PC” it’s a waste of everyone’s time especially mine…

    FACTS she’s dead… her son is dead… & they were found burned in his back yard… After he was charged with rape… Daaaaaaa… You don’t need a degree to figure this one out…

    EVERY WORD OUT OF YOUR MOUTH (or written) AFTER THESE STATEMENTS defending the rights of this poor, poor guy proves my initial thought either you are related to this Murdered or at least a few of you are sick and need mental help, please, please seek some for everyone concerned but especially for yourself…

    Please do not think that I feel this way about all of you, I don’t I just hate “PC” BS… The ones that I am talking to know exactly who you are & I pity you… & Shame on you…
    CYA

    Comment by I have to add my 2 cents — August 3, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

  156. Fact…he was not ever charged with rape. There were rape allegations brought up against him but he was never charged with rape. They didn’t have any evidence to charge him with rape. And I am in now ay defending him. I wouldn’t defend him. Case in point, it’s possible he raped Maria. But so far the evidence of him killing her is great…but I’m not convinced he acted alone. And for this, he’s a piece of shit and I hope he-and if anyone else helped him-fries for what he did.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 7:47 pm

  157. And I don’t understand why people who don’t believe Maria was raped, get accused for defending Cesar. That is ludicrous.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 8:01 pm

  158. Ann, I have clearly stated prior that I feel the only reason for the rape is an issue at all, is it provides motive, not evidence in the murder, The allegation give reason to the Militaries response, give reasons for Maria, Cesar’s and Christiana’s tension and Fears. And why the police went to Laurens house 1st.
    Bottom Line is the rape is irrelevant to the murder except for motive
    Concerning Congress, The same can be said about this case,, It is about process. If you think Caesar is innocent did the system work for him?
    I personally think Maria (just like here) was presume guilty of false charges and not much was done, If they responded to Maria the way they responded to Mary (wait until we get back from vacation, we file all the paper work what’s the problem) well, I get why the Lauterbach’s are upset
    In HINDSIGHT the Military was wrong. Caesar was not a good egg and Mary had a reason for her tension to become high, she had to go to the press to get the Military cooperation and I believe this was the same way Maria was treated, So the question remains will the act of congress solve the problem?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 8:05 pm

  159. Ann, concerning “And I don’t understand why people who don’t believe Maria was raped, get accused for defending Cesar. ”

    with your inquiring mind read the post above while thinking about being Cesar defense attorney,,,, them tell me what you see. Do you see a temporary insanity plea, stress brought on by Maria?
    That might answer your question
    As Walker states, this post has done a log investigating the Lauterbachs (not just what is in the press Much Deaper than that) but has stood by the Military reports that Cesar had a stellar record and seemed above reproach,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 8:22 pm

  160. I have to add my 2 cents,

    That was my first & this is my last posting to this discussion…

    No, this is your second post and obviously not your last…

    This thread is about proposed changes to the DOD procedures for the military. Congresspersons Harman and Turner are using as their spokesperson Mary Lauterbach and her OPINION that the military did not protect her daughter when she reported that she was “attacked”. For many reasons Maria’s allegations were unsupported by physical evidence and Maria consistently changed her story. Her alleged rapist was never caught nor charged in her case.

    Mary Lauterbach has no idea what the truth ias in her daughter’s case. When Maria first told Mary that she was “attacked”, Mary herself did not believe Maria’s story. Marythen told her daughter “IF this is true you need to report it..” IF this is true.

    Obviously Mary ascribes to the same to the same criteria you do…

    Youhave stated that Laurean was chargfed with rape…BUT Laurean has never been charged with rape. As of this moment the Law is satisfied that Laurean never raped Maria. There is no case…there are no charges.

    What we are discussing is Mary Lauterbach being the spokesperson for sexual assualt regorm in the military WHEN Maria was never sexually assaulted.

    We are not discussing the murder of Maria Lauterbach…but I am sure that if you take the time to search through threads concering her murder you will find out what most of us believe. And you are welcome to post your opinion on the murder investigation there.

    Comment by Gemstone — August 3, 2008 @ 8:23 pm

  161. I meant to post “As Walker states, this post has done a lot of investigating the Lauterbachs”
    There is a ton of speculative Negative thought about Cesar, but it is discounted

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 8:23 pm

  162. What’s PC?

    Comment by justice4all — August 3, 2008 @ 8:26 pm

  163. Likewise as using he was under investigation for rape as motive, I can see how someone would have gone off the deep end for being falsely accused for rape. How would you feel if your husband or your son was accused of rape and you knew and they knew it was false? Does it justify murdering someone? Of course it doesn’t. But can’t you see how someone’s life could be turned upside down based on false allegations? I know how I would feel if my husband came home and told me he was being accused of rape and I knew he didn’t do it. I would be mad as hell…as I think anyone would be.

    I’m not Dewey Hudson and I don’t know what he is going to use as motive, but I don’t see him using the rape allegations as motive. Afterall, he didn’t try a rape case that was brought against a police officer. The woman claims she was raped but Dewey said he couldn’t prove it…all he could prove was sex occured. Guess what…the man-a police officer-walked free. He could have very well been guilty but Dewey chose not to let a jury decide that.

    Anyway, it’s a moot point to keep discussing the was she/wasn’t she raped. You have your beliefs, I have mine. And at the present time-as I do reserve the right to change my opinion as more stuff comes out-we will not change each other’s opinions. And we’ll probably disagree with the way Mary is handling the Congress situation. And that’s fine. You’re her family and are going to stick by her.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 8:33 pm

  164. Justice, I think PC is politically Correct

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 8:41 pm

  165. Ann , I don’t think in a court of Law the rape could be proven, And as I have state False Rape Allegation is a HORRABLE CRIME
    It is funny, when I 1st heard about the rape I questioned it,,, after more information came out I believed Maria was assaulted. The fact she is dead says there was (and no one listened) but there was Validly to her fears. I know you will say she told no one etc…. But I think she told several people, Not the right people though

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 8:49 pm

  166. Mastiff’s, you don’t know what I will say b/c I have never said she didn’t tell anyone. I said she didn’t tell the right people she was afraid. She didn’t tell anyone who had the authority to do something.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 3, 2008 @ 8:52 pm

  167. Thanks, mastiffs, I was mystified. I have had to observe political correctness, and it kind of sticks. However, how about the person who made a fuss over “manhole cover” and insisted it ought to be “personhole cover?”

    Comment by justice4all — August 3, 2008 @ 8:53 pm

  168. Gemstone, If I pointed out an error in your statment would it discount everything you said???
    Re Read…..”That was my first & this is my last posting to this discussion…”
    No, this is your second post and obviously not your last…
    2cents did say it was her 2nd post

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 8:54 pm

  169. justice4all I am sorry but that cracks me up. LOL

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 8:55 pm

  170. Justic 4 all, does your name include animals, trees and insects
    What about the feelings of the clouds

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 8:56 pm

  171. ann that is fair, I do get confused on who say what sorry. To me the evidence that she told her friends and Cletk she was states she really was afraid of somthing, I think she did not know how to handle the atthorities quetioning her and bring up her past so she backed away

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 9:10 pm

  172. It’s indeed true that Ceasar has not been charged with rape, only allegations. There are two, not one, possible answers to that. First is, of course, that there was/is no evidence. The second is that the investigation stopped or paused or went underground when the accuser was murdered. Is it possible that this investigation is not yet over? I don’t know.

    Another thought, if the Marines/NCIS didn’t believe there was actually a rape, based on Maria’s statements, why were there 7 or 8 months of investigation? Agent Grafton’s statement about the launching of the investigation on Dateline seemed a little fuzzy to me.

    With regards to the subject of this thread, I’ll say it again, I have absolutely no problem at all with what Mary and Congress are trying to do. I hope they are successful in their efforts. I would find it very hard to believe that this is the only case that they will be looking at, just the one that got it started and, yes, I believe this is about the process. I’m trying to keep focused on the “big picture” and not get all caught up in the nit picky little details of this saga.

    Comment by R356 — August 3, 2008 @ 9:10 pm

  173. R356 Good point,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 3, 2008 @ 9:18 pm

  174. Well, mastiffs, hmmm I don’t actually race out and hug trees as the chainsaws come in close, but I am concerned for animals. Clouds, well, very changeable entities at best!!!!!!
    No kidding, all that political correctness was of the “utmost seriousness” where I was living a few years ago. Heads rolled for “indiscretions.” There are advantages, though, especially in the case of doubt. If you have to write to a woman and her marital state is unknown you can now just say Ms. It was all designed to “equalize” people and take away gender words. However, I always smiled at the realities. One day at the middle school where my kids were, two deer crashed through the glass (reinforced with those little tiny pieces of diamond-shaped wire) door and into the cafeteria and classrooms. The kids and teachers screamed. Most got up on the desks. It was left to a couple of good ol boy MALE teachers to chase the deer out and one man wrestled with a deer that had cut itself badly on the glass. Also, it was very common indeed to find the MALE members of society helping the “women” (notice not “girls”) clean off the snow and break out the wipers from the ice. Not to mention helping push them out of the snowpit and onto the road. I don’t really think it is “patronizing” or “demeaning” to ask a member of the opposite sex to help with something that they are good at. Like “Could you help me sew on my collar button because I’ve got to go to a meeting with the boss in a few minutes?” Or, “Could you help me change my tire because I can’t lift it out of the back of the suv and I don’t quite know whether the jack is going on the frame or puncturing my gastank?” I have had to do a lot of things because my husband has been away a lot, but if I were struggling to get my car up on the jack and some man stopped by and offered help I would be so grateful to him. I wouldn’t think it was denigrating me in any way. Those tires and things are heavy and even a 1ton jack is fairly heavy, not to mention a 2 tonner. Then jacking it up takes a bit of muscle. With the kids shrieking and yelling that they are late to their activities, and the weather getting colder by the minute you bet I’m not too politically correct to accept help!!!!!

    Comment by justice4all — August 3, 2008 @ 9:22 pm

  175. Thank you – Mastiffs.

    I find it a little comical when someone points out that Mary doesn’t know the whole story and, yet, somehow believe that they do. That’s the whole problem here, we don’t know the story.

    Comment by R356 — August 3, 2008 @ 9:22 pm

  176. Mastiffs – earlier tonight you stated to Snickers that the reason Maria’s dad was not involved was obvious. Why is it obvious? I believe that I saw that he was with the Air Force Reserve at Wright-Pat. What am I missing? Thanks!!

    Comment by R356 — August 3, 2008 @ 9:45 pm

  177. Come on Guys! I’m up late tonight. Did everyone go to bed?

    Comment by R356 — August 3, 2008 @ 9:54 pm

  178. To totally jump subject, but something me and couple of my friends have been wondering. Does anyone know where Christina Laurean works on base, what her job is, and how long she has been a Marine?

    Comment by unenlisted — August 3, 2008 @ 9:56 pm

  179. ihv2mastiffs,

    In answer to your question : “Gemstone, If I pointed out an error in your statment would it discount everything you said???”

    Nope, it would certainly be a shame for you to discount the facts in any post, based solely on your own inability to understand the underlying subtleties in another poster’s response.

    And No, I do not need to “Re Read…That was my first & this is my last posting to this discussion.” 2cents didn’t stutter, I understood exactly what was posted. I knew that 2cents had posted two posts…in fact my answer reflects that I understood the post: I posted that fact…

    “No, this is your second post and obviously not your last”

    There is a message in my response…

    Subtle isn”t it?

    Comment by Gemstone — August 3, 2008 @ 11:16 pm

  180. R356,

    In March 2008 General Michael Regner informed Rep. Turner that the Marine Corps “considers the sexual assaut portion of the investigation to be concluded.”

    Comment by Gemstone — August 3, 2008 @ 11:42 pm

  181. Thanks – Gemstone, I missed that. I remember NCIS agent Ciccarelli pointing out in the January news conference that the investigation was still “ongoing”. So, why, exactly, was the investigation concluded? Lack of evidence? Lack of a victim? The Mexico extradition mess (what he could be charged with and by whom)? Will the actual evidence that was gathered over the course of those 7 months ever see the light of day?

    Comment by R356 — August 4, 2008 @ 7:03 am

  182. R356, I don’t know if you were speaking of me when you said “I find it a little comical when someone points out that Mary doesn’t know the whole story and, yet, somehow believe that they do. That’s the whole problem here, we don’t know the story.”

    I have never claimed to know the whole story but I don’t believe Mary has it either…not like mastiff’s wants us to think or believe. I have tried to keep an open mind when reading and looking and thinking about Maria’s death. I have admitted that it’s very possible that she was raped, but I don’t believe she was-and I have the right to have that opinion and I have the right to change that opinion if something new were to come out and shed light on the rape. However, mastiff’s is so dead set in believing Maria was raped that she won’t admit that there is a possibility that Maria wasn’t raped. Double standard?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 4, 2008 @ 8:57 am

  183. R356, in response to your comment:

    [quote] Another thought, if the Marines/NCIS didn’t believe there was actually a rape, based on Maria’s statements, why were there 7 or 8 months of investigation? Agent Grafton’s statement about the launching of the investigation on Dateline seemed a little fuzzy to me. [quote]

    First, NCIS was the investigating party, not the Marines. I don’t believe the USMC can legally investigate a rape allegation. In any case, NCIS HAD to make sure that an actual rape or sexual assault had not occurred. This case was made difficult by Marias changing statements, yet, the case was not dropped at the first indication that Marias allegation was probably false. It has been said that the Regimental Commander was intent on taking this case to an Article 32. NCIS could not close the investiation or case based on the Commanders request to carry out this case out to the end. Without any immediate physical proof or eyewitnesses the arrival of the baby would be the only evidence NCIS would have, but as we know, the baby couldn’t have been the outcome of the alleged rape date. Here is what I think, note I said “I” (and I’m probably almost on the dollar on this one): Being that the baby was most likely not conceived during the timeframe Maria claimed to have a consensual relationship or during the timeframe of the alleged rape and due to the fact that Maria later stated that the baby did not belong to Cesar leads me to think that the Commander was waiting the birth of the child to either prove or dis-prove that Maria and Cesar did/did not have a relationship of a sexual nature. Now if the baby had been born in mid-Feb per the due date determined by Maria doctors then that would throw the rape allegation out the window based on the time of conception and birth and based on Marias statements. Let’s say the baby is born in mid-Feb and it is found that Cesar is the father, well then we have a completely different situation. Both Maria and Cesar would’ve been charged with giving false statements, possibly, adultry, fraternization and any other charges the Commander would see deemed fit. So you see, the Regimental Commander was not going to let this probable false rape allegation go away quietly, he was going to see it to the end and take the appropriate actions and not only was Maria going to have to answer but Cesar as well.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 4, 2008 @ 9:52 am

  184. Ann, I wasn’t speaking of anyone, specifically. I guess I’m just wishing that people would step back a little and examine what they really know and try to keep it separate from what they believe. I believe you are one (there are many others) who HAS kept an open mind and have provided a lot of good information, as well. Thanks!

    Comment by R356 — August 4, 2008 @ 10:21 am

  185. R356 Being Military I am sure puts him in a hard position

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 4:20 pm

  186. Below is the text that the Military released, Which does support Anonymous Statement
    On October 18, 2007, NCIS recommends no disciplinary action be initiated on the alleged rape until forensic evidence DNA can be retrieved from the child. Cpl Laurean denied having any sexual contact with LCpl Lauterbach and this was believed to be significant evidence.
    However As I re read this (below).
    On June 27th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach is ill and seeks medical attention. She is administered a pregnancy test. The result of the test is positive with medical personnel estimating the conception date as 14 May 2007. LCpl Lauterbach’s UVA calls NCIS to report the pregnancy. LCpl Lauterbach goes to NCIS to make a statement regarding her pregnancy and belief that Cpl Laurean is the father as a result of the alleged rape.

    No matter what I do think that Cesar was afraid the baby was his (rape or no Rape)
    But several sources viewed her as being 8 months pregnant, A recent court case (the twins that died) used Gabriel as an example of being a 8 month fetus,
    The Military ONLY talks about what they thought the due date was on June 27th,,Is there any results other that the preliminary test that we know of? All of us woman know that initial visit date change, and I do think Maria thought (after the date was changed ) that it could be someonelses, or she was trying to take the threat off of cesar

    And the Military also states:
    On June 25th, 2007, the company commander re-issues a written Military Protective Order effective through September 24th. Again, the MPO is renewed to preserve the integrity of the investigation and developing case, it was not based on any perceived threat towards LCpl Lauterbach. Additionally, there is no indication LCpl Lauterbach and Cpl Laurean have been in contact in any way.

    If this statement is a result of an investigation, then I would say Cesar and Maria were not in contact with each other
    What are your thoughts?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 4:54 pm

  187. I also would like to know if you knew for a fact a Marine came in from out of town and was ORDERED not to go to the Memorial. And was ordered not to tell anyone who he was. While he was there he was put on duty (while on leave)
    Would that to you speak of a cover up?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 5:14 pm

  188. Mastiffs – I understand what you’re saying about Maria’s dad. He’s already in a hard position even without being in the military.

    I’m not sure if you were asking anyone in particular about the marine from out of town, but I guess I’d want to know a whole lot more about the scenario before drawing any kind of conclusion. On the surface, it could seem a little strange.

    Comment by R356 — August 4, 2008 @ 5:38 pm

  189. No one in particular, it is been brought to my attention that maybe I am thick headed because I think the crime was more violent than the press has described and I tend to think Maria was raped.
    I am willing to restate my vision of what happened, (however no one here agrees LOL) but I was wondering if people knew for a fact (no has to believe me) but there was a Marine, family member, that came into town , was ordered NOT TO go to the Memorial Service nor expose who he was….
    He was given an official report and was not to stray from it, Now Maria’s friends did know who he was , he had told them before the order was given… From that info, I feel that the marines were hiding something etc… however I can prove nothing,, What I think is so Dumb is that I think the errors by the Marines were ERRORS of omission and Passivity (Maria was presumed guilty of false allegations immediately and I understand why) and the Marines involved panicked when Maria was murdered… the proof would be that they treated Maria the same way they treated Mary… she had to wait almost 3 weeks to an audience with a Marine Official that could tell her anything about Maria’s case…. That’s a long time

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 6:30 pm

  190. Okay typed and posted before proof reading Sorry, Need to get my Granny Glasses
    If it does not make sense please ask

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 6:33 pm

  191. any news on when cesar might be back? any news on what the wifey and sister are up to lately?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 4, 2008 @ 6:49 pm

  192. Mastiffs – I follow your line of reasoning pretty much agree. I’m not sure if the part about the out of town marine necessarily points to a cover up. It could be more of a control thing where the Marines wanted to keep statements through official channels. I don’t know.

    I, too, lean toward believing that Maria was indeed raped or assaulted in some way. I’m baffled by the describions of the initial reporting of the incidents and the very early investigation. It seems that right from the start nothing quite stacked up right. When the pregnancy was confirmed with a conception date of May 14, didn’t somebody notice then that it just didn’t fit. Why was everyone so surprised in October? When agent Grafton was asked if it was rape on the Dateline show, she didn’t say yes or no, she said it warranted an investigation.

    Comment by R356 — August 4, 2008 @ 6:53 pm

  193. Anonymous – you’re right, news would be good.

    Comment by R356 — August 4, 2008 @ 6:58 pm

  194. Thanks and I agree, you could me right on controlling info….however this Marine would have kept to the script and not allowing a family member to go to the Memorial ,,, I guess I am just disappointed for him

    I did not think His story was needed to explain etc…
    However to me kind to the Marines, I think they Had Know Idea this would happen and they are people with feelings , shoot I felt quilty because I had not written her since her Uncled died and I knew how important mail was to Marines…. well I just would hate to be the one who wrote in the report that Cesar was not a threat,,,,, Even though I think thier respomse was unproffessional. I get the Human Side of it

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 7:00 pm

  195. It has been so long since the Dateline show I am going to review,, Thanks..
    Have you heard anything different about the due date?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 7:02 pm

  196. I completely agree, R-356, that it makes no sense that there was a “surprise” in October. Something here just does not add up…

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 7:27 pm

  197. I just re listen to the dateline, Graften says that the crime rose to the level of rape,,,, Maria says no a couple of time, he took her by the hand, Maria never said yes to the sex…that He continues after she says NO.

    And It also states that Maria was telling people she was afraid
    Also confirms that no one is talking about the Handwriting analysis done on the letter supposedly written by Maria , however Grafton says on the surface it looks like other handwriting she had seen.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 7:38 pm

  198. I only know that there was a lot of speculation about the due date(s). The only thing official that I think I ever saw was the May 14 conception date. It always struck me as extremely odd that this date was only 3 days after she reported the rape. Didn’t somebody notice?

    I’ve stated before that being male, and with no children, the whole pregnancy thing is a bit beyond my realm of knowledge. I know that it isn’t an exacting thing, but isn’t a month off (if you try to go with the date of the alleged rape) quite a stretch? Again, didn’t somebody notice? If they did, was it discussed with Maria? I’ve always thought that the pregnancy most likely was the result of a third sexual encounter (I don’t know who with) sometime in early May, probably shortly before the rape allegations were brought.

    Comment by R356 — August 4, 2008 @ 7:52 pm

  199. I think it odd also. The OB knew the conception date, with Ultra Sound you can tell with in a few days etc… She had one (she knew it was a boy) However I am sure it was not one at her initial appointment, when they give the May 14th date (99% sure LOL) because MC states “She is administered a pregnancy test. The result of the test is positive with medical personnel estimating the conception date as 14 May 2007”
    They do not say she had a sonogram, the type of test she had normally checks hormones and uses the woman cycle date to judge conception… it can be 30 days off (it is common for a woman have a light cycle after she is pregnant and they count conception the from the day of the last cycle started) What I find interesting is the Family and Onslow Country claimed she was 8 months + and the Marines are very quite about her ultra sound, The Ultra sound would give a more accurate date. If done correctly they can tell with in 3 days of conception,,, Maybe her due date was earlier than expected, maybe she really did not feel it was Lareans ,,, or maybe she thought the threats from Larean would go away if she took the baby out of the picture,,, I bet it was in Oct that Maria began to think about keeping her child….and I am pretty certain that she would not have wanted Larean to be in the picture with a baby etc…..Maria knew it was a boy, so we know she had an ultra sound I would like to know the results

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 8:16 pm

  200. Medical tests are fraught with uncertainty. Until I see the forensic testing on the baby, I do not feel I can give an opinion on the baby’s fetal age.

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 8:23 pm

  201. walker , I agree, however as far as the case goes I do not think the babies father is what is important, Cesar did not know the DNA results either did Maria… Both of tem were guessing just as we are…

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 8:32 pm

  202. A Marine on leave was placed on duty? And where exactly did this Marine stand this duty? Now if you’re talking about your son, is this the same Marine that questioned the USMC at Lejeune and was satisfied with their answers, IIRC you mentioned something to that effect, I may be erred. So you are telling me that a Marine that is family was ordered to stay away from Marias funeral. I don’t believe there is a USMC conspiracy there as this Marine was not directly involved with this case.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 8:41 pm

  203. The fetal DNA results are critical. If the father was not Cesar’s, then we have yet another suspect to wonder about (the father of the baby). If CL was the father, then we have to wonder about the accuracy of the pregnancy test or whether there was an ongoing relationship between Maria and Cesar after the alleged rape.

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 8:41 pm

  204. Also concerning Rape, If Cesar is the dad, I do not think it proves rape, if Cesar is not the dad, I don’t think it proves NO rape either. Grafftin does not say the Military calculated the date and it was off, she says Maria calculated the date . (to me that implies the Military date adds up to the rape)

    I think we need to keep in mind “what did these individuals believe to be true at the time of the murder” Sounds like Cesar was afraid he was dad and so was Maria.
    They did not act upon our Hindsight or the DNA results
    I think Maria withdrew Cesar as the father because she was thinking about keeping the baby.
    However the date would only answer Grafftin response… did the Marines know the due date was mid Jan…. that would make Grafftin language make sense,,, however if the ultra sound showed the initial date to be correct (Due Feb 14th) then YES I am confused

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 8:45 pm

  205. Walker I posted before I read your, I guess I am convicting Cesar and your right,,, however,, the body in the back yard is a far stretch for anoter daddy. Cesar had the ATM, DRove her car, etc

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 8:47 pm

  206. Well if Cesar is not the father then I hope that information is not released because that would not look good to have a tenative rape victim get involved with someone else so soon after the alleged rape took place. I wouldn’t think that a rape victim would not jump into a relationship so soon after going through a rape.

    Maria calculated meaning that Maria was pretty sure she knew the due date based on her calculations. I’m going to have to go with the Naval Hospitals and her Obs estimated due date relased by the USMC. THe USMC nor NCIS would not calculate a due date for investigative purposes. The medically proven due date would’ve had to have been provided by Marias doctor(s) at the Naval hospital to Maria, her command and NCIS.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 8:53 pm

  207. Nehi . My prior statment was that he was satisfied with his understanding of what happened, and I state above that he did not go to the NC memorial service. By the way HIS Command retreved his days back from leave.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 8:54 pm

  208. Sorry mastiffs, but a body in the back yard etc. to me just proves that Cesar may have been the killer, doesn’t prove rape nor paternity.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 8:56 pm

  209. Mastiffs – I just reviewed the Dateline tape of agent Grafton, again, and when asked if it rose to the level of rape, she answers that “it rose to the level to warrant an investigation”, choosing her words carefully. This may not be significant, but it wasn’t a simple yes or no.

    Walker – thank you! You summed that up very well.

    Comment by R356 — August 4, 2008 @ 8:57 pm

  210. Sorry Mastiffs but I don’t understand what you mean by retrieved his days of leave.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:01 pm

  211. Nehi I agree, as stated , either does the DNA,,, I do not think there will ever be enough prove of rape to get a conviction,
    Concerning the Marine . so if what I said is true you call that a conspiracy HUM!!! so do I. However I do not think it was that he had info,,, they were controlling the info that would go back to the family…. And by the way they did ship him back to Iraq before the funeral

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:04 pm

  212. To me R356 I get to mean Graftons comment to mean that based on the initial report Maria made that a rape investigation was warranted. Maria was believed at the begining. So I have to say Marias allegations were taken seriously. THey didn’t pat Maria on the head and send her on her way. An investigation was conducted.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:04 pm

  213. Nehi, When he arrived in Iraq his command there did whatever they needed to do so he still had his leave

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:05 pm

  214. Nehi, My statement concerning the rape speak to Grafftins description, Maria nevers says yes to sex,,, it was always no

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:06 pm

  215. I agree that a dead body buried in an alleged rapist”s backyard does not look good for either a murder or a rape defense.

    However, if another male is involved (the father of the baby if Cesar is not the father), then this investigation has a lot of work to do.

    The fact that no DNA results have been released make me continue to be interested in this case…

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 9:07 pm

  216. mastiffs, i stated that I don’t believe there was a conspiracy. Could it be that the Marine was already deploying with his unit when he was granted limited leave to go back home? Really, how much info could that Marine have had for the family. If he had any it wouldn’t have come from the USMC or NCIS.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:09 pm

  217. Walker, If they have those results what would be the reasoning to with hold them?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:09 pm

  218. You’re right that Maria said no to that particular encounter. She told him to stop and he did.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:11 pm

  219. You’re absolutely right walker. If there is another person involved then there is still alot of investigating to do. Marias body in Cesars back yard still doesn’t prove rape. It proves murder.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:13 pm

  220. No logical reasoning that I can come up with, Mastiffs.

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 9:18 pm

  221. Perhaps they haven’t been released because the DA intends to use that DNA as a motive if Cesar is the father or if Cesar isn’t the father the USMC and LE do not want to embarass Marias memory or her family.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:21 pm

  222. Mastiff’s, Maria would more than likely had an internal sonogram at her confirmation appointment with the OB. Lejeune’s Naval Hospital’s website states this on their website. And Maria’s OB would have been at the Naval Hospital. Internal sonograms at the confirmation appointment are much more accurate on giving due dates than the sonograms that are done around the 20 week mark.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 4, 2008 @ 9:22 pm

  223. If Cesar is not the father, then I think the MC/NCIS needs to be a bit concerned about exactly who is the father.

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 9:23 pm

  224. Nehi – agent Grafton does not use the word rape, even when asked, directly. I took her meaning as they weren’t sure if Maria’s description of events was fully acurate and actually “qualified” as rape. Let’s face it, the description given doesn’t really fit the “classic” rape scenario. I’m not pointing fingers, just trying understand why this seems so fuzzy.

    Comment by R356 — August 4, 2008 @ 9:24 pm

  225. As much as we like to put faith in our medical system, we all know that predicting a baby’s birth date from sonograms and other tests is an unexact science at best.

    Like I said, I will await the fetal DNA results as to the age of the fetus.

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 9:26 pm

  226. Walker, if Cesar isn’t the father, how will they ever know who the father was? Are they going to test every guy at Lejeune or every guy here in Jacksonville and the outer areas?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 4, 2008 @ 9:26 pm

  227. Because it wasn’t a classic case R356. However, her allegations were taken seriously and there was an investigation. It wasn’t until the case started coming together that I believe it was evident that the rape allegations were mostly likely false.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:28 pm

  228. No idea, Ann. Hopefully their 7 month investigation would provide some leads.

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 9:28 pm

  229. Nehi, i agree that is there is a nother man involved they need to find out why he has not come forward,,, but concerning the motive wouldn’t it have more to do with what Cesar or Maria knew at the time. than what the DNA would show…

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:29 pm

  230. Let’s hope so, Walker.

    Comment by R356 — August 4, 2008 @ 9:32 pm

  231. Not if Maria didn’t provide them a name Walker. Heck for all we know they may have a name of the person Maria was with if Cesar is not the father.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:33 pm

  232. The fetal DNA results are being withheld for some reason. My imagination tends to run wild speculating as to why that is.

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 9:35 pm

  233. Ann it is my understanding she did not have a sonogram until later, however if she did it really make walkers and Nehl points valid, things to get realy fussy.. If her date was moved up thing seem to add up a little more. Why NCIS were puruing the rape case untill Maria recalculated the date I thought the sonogram gave Maria the new date therefore the calculation changed maybe your right

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:36 pm

  234. I’m not sure if the DNA would prove a motive, I’m just guessing as I don’t think that the rape allegation could be brought into court. And what did Maria and Cesar know? Perhaps that there was a consensual relationship and both were in deep and were about to loose their careers.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:37 pm

  235. walker Probably not to sway the jury LOL

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:37 pm

  236. Walker I don’t think that there’s a need to speculate as to why the DNA hasn’t been released. Like I stated before maybe the local LE requested that it be kept quiet for case purposes. The USMC is not going to release that type of into to the public.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:39 pm

  237. If they have a name, then they can rule that person in or out.

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 9:39 pm

  238. Nehi I agree,, 100% . I think they both feared that….Everything points to that… the rape allegations only state the situation they were going through….
    Cesar does state (and I think that is why Maria was harassed) he was fairly confident the child could be his (ie that why his friend and wife were so aggressive) weather rape or not

    Maria tells No One of another potential dad, (No Name) and NO one appears to be in her day to day life that would suggest a steady bo

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:43 pm

  239. Oh mastiffs your comment:

    “walker Probably not to sway the jury LOL”

    is no laughing matter. IMO Cesar has already been put on trial and has already been convicted by the media and all the publicity this case has received. Can justice be served if the word justice just became that, another word. As hard as it may be we have to keep in mind that Cesar is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Cesar still has his day in court and if he is the killer may justice be served.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:44 pm

  240. Nehi I did not mean to ofend

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:46 pm

  241. [qyote] Cesar does state (and I think that is why Maria was harassed) he was fairly confident the child could be his (ie that why his friend and wife were so aggressive) weather rape or not

    Maria tells No One of another potential dad, (No Name) and NO one appears to be in her day to day life that would suggest a steady bo [quote}

    Please provide me a legitimate reference where Cesar states that he was confident he was the father. An what friend are you talking about? I know of some but what friend.

    We don’t know that Maria didn’t tell NCIS of another possible father. And we don’t know if she did or didn’t have a beau at that time. Heck her mother didn’t know about the guy she was dating before she got involved with Cesar. For all we know Maria could’ve had frequent dates or not. We just don’t know.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:48 pm

  242. Everyone have a good evening.

    Comment by Nehi — August 4, 2008 @ 9:49 pm

  243. This case is a no-win situation for the MC. Either Cesar is the murderer, his wife is the murderer, or presumably some other Marine is. Or maybe it can be tied to some other low-life running around (sarcasm on).

    Comment by walker — August 4, 2008 @ 9:49 pm

  244. Walker I agree

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 4, 2008 @ 9:52 pm

  245. You’re right walker. The person that killed Maria was most likely a Marine and I’m confident that USMC would be more than happy to turn that person over to the LE for prosecution if it is found that the killer is not Cesar. We must keep in mind that the USMC is not on trial nor is there a case that names the USMC as Marias murderer. Yes the killer most probably wore the uniform but that person and that person only is responsible for Marias death.

    Comment by Nehi — August 5, 2008 @ 9:18 am

  246. Nehi and Walker, I do agree The Marine Corp is not the murder, You both know where I am coming from concerning my thoughts on a cover up (covering up their error of omission not conspiracy against Maria and you know the reasons why I think so)
    However I’m not sure the proposal before congress will correct the problem..
    To define what I perceive the problem to be
    The Military spends to much managing it’s reputation (I personally think it is a necessary concern) but in turn there is a Hugh consequence in “Being Wrong” while in the Military, your efforts (no matter how well intentioned, or justified, if your wrong it will follow you for ever) This fear is a fear that Maria, Cesar, Christina and NCIS were and are facing, put people in that position and you seldom end up with anything but CYA …. I think Congress will only exacerbate this …more rules creates more stumbling blocks (more areas to hang yourself) . More CYA and less assertive action ,,,,What are your thoughts, Would supporting the Military sending all Violent crimes to the private sector work or are there to many secondary effects ,,,,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 5, 2008 @ 6:28 pm

  247. mastif, you have to be related. You are a liar just like Maria……..you don’t know a lot about the MCorps, do you? You need to read your comments…..dbl tongues

    Comment by Anonymous — August 5, 2008 @ 6:42 pm

  248. What?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 5, 2008 @ 6:43 pm

  249. Nehi, first you have to understand that each branch of the service nor does each base do not sit down at a round table and make the regulations. DOD and all the senators, congressment etc. that put their paws in the DOD system make those regulations. All services must follow those written regulations down to the “T”. No exceptions. Now with that being said perhaps Marys anger should be directed at the Department of Defense etc. as they set those regs. The Marines at Lejeune simply followed those regulations as they are ordered to to so.

    The military doesn’t spend to much time managing their reputation. They spend too much time in training and fighting for our freedoms. The military is an institution of discipline, discipline that is required to continue to allow these men and women to be well prepared to protect our country. There is room for small mistakes but there is not room for mistakes that are set forth in the UCMJ. Just like the civlian world has laws they expect people to follow so does the military. Now Maria had already been in trouble and I believe her command cut her a break, see room for mistakes. Perhaps they saw her lack of maturity and saw that she had potential. If it were me that were her SNCOIC and she was caught stealing from the very Marines she stood next to day in and out and then was caught lying about her family situation to CYA I would’ve pushed for a demotion.

    Allowing the civilian LE to handle military affairs? I don’t think so. If that’s the case shut down all our military services and let the local law enforcements protect our safety at home and abroad. The military is capable of conducting their own military affairs. What you are seeing is one case where you and Marias family feel that the military didn’t protect Maria. Personally I feel the USMC did what was set forth to them to follow per the regulations. Would notifying the local LE that an MPO is in place help? I don’t know, but, I see it as the LE treating that as they would treat a civilian protective order. They wouldn’t be able to enforce it unless they were notified that it was being broken. Just like Maria nor Cesar notified the proper personnel that one or the other had broken the MPO I doubt that they would’ve notified the local LE just because the local LE had been aware of it.

    Comment by Nehi — August 5, 2008 @ 7:07 pm

  250. Oops the above comment is to Mastiffs not to myself.

    Comment by Nehi — August 5, 2008 @ 7:10 pm

  251. I do agree on the protective order, it stops nothing, only giving the LE’s reason to arrest before a crime could be committed. As also stated I do not hold that Marines Accountable for the murder, I think your right on the petty cash etc…. and giving her the benefit of the doubt and I do feel it is a case of Cry Wolf…..
    Bottom line is I am not for additional Laws etc….
    Girls like Maria (bad judgment and competitive with the guys) tend to get themselves involved with other not so great folks I GET THAT, they also do not have what it takes to get themselves out of the situation, I get that also
    Sometimes my post do get confusing, do not assume that I have any influence over Mary etc..,or am posting on the Lauterbach behalf. but I get where the Lauterbach are coming from, I can see why the Lauterbach, felt dismissed by the Military when they 1st reported her missing and upset that the Military (because of the extenuating circumstance) did even check her bank account and asked them to wait until leave was over to get an audience with the officers that could answer the questions… The way my son was treated …. They were disinterested and appeasing….This does make me wonder if this was the same way Maria was treated. That part I will defend, … I additional Laws or regulations on the Military to me is unacceptable… guess it is good to hear that even if you think there is something fussy ,,,, you do not think an act of congress could correct it… Again I think the thing that went wrong was a misjudgment the fear of exposure etc… people concerned about their personal careers

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 5, 2008 @ 7:53 pm

  252. Sorry I meant to say the end of the Post “guess it is good to hear that even if you think there is something fussy ,,,, you do not think an act of congress could correct it…but do you think new regulations need written ?”

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 5, 2008 @ 8:07 pm

  253. What do you think about this arguement
    http://iowaindependent.com/2748/sexual-assault-in-the-military-looking-for-a-few-good-changes

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 5, 2008 @ 8:22 pm

  254. Mastiffs, I understand what you’re saying. What exactly did Mary want the Marines to do? Send out 100′s of Marines to search for her? Being that her daughter was missing and she was desperate to find her maybe that is what is was wanting. Again, the USMC could not do that in accordance with the rules and regulations that are in black and white for them to follow. Mary felt dismissed and perhaps that is because she is not used to dealing with the military culture. Marines are not know for showing their emotions so perhaps that’s what Mary felt was her being dismissed. Now is it not fact that the USMC contacted Mary first to ask if she knew where Maria was etc. the day after Maria did not show up for work? Wasn’t it the USMC that told Maria that by law they could not file a missing persons report and suggested that she do so? The USMC could not, I repeat, could not check Marias checking account nor anything outside of the base. That jurisdiction belongs to the local LE. Now let me ask, why didn’t the local LE check her bank accounts sooner? So in as far as your son, I don’t know what he was told and by whom so I won’t comment on that issue.

    I don’t feel Maria was dismissed. If she had her complaint would’ve stopped at her OICs desk. He/she could’ve patted her on the head and told her to run along. Or NCIS would’ve dropped the case day one. It didn’t happen that way did it? No. Not even when NCIS was pretty sure they didn’t have a case because of Marias changes in her statements and story was the investigation dropped. Marias commander also refused to drop the investigation. So no Maria wasn’t dismissed IMO.

    Congress can make changes to the regulations and if they do the military will abide by those changes. Exposure to what mastiffs? There is nothing to expose. Fear of personal careers? Had it been found that anyone involved had dropped the ball I’m positive head would’ve rolled. Those directly involved in this case are not so protected that they walk on water. Not only did the investigation regarding how the case was handled reveal that the USMC did things by the book and there was no “cover up” but a rep, can’t remember whom, also stated that the USMC did nothing wrong.

    Comment by Nehi — August 5, 2008 @ 8:35 pm

  255. Help me understand What Investigation? “Not only did the investigation regarding how the case was handled reveal that the USMC did things by the book and there was no “cover up” but a rep, can’t remember whom, also stated that the USMC did nothing wrong.”

    So what you are saying is that the Marines had no obligation to respond to a missing Marine nor coorporate is an aggressive manner
    Did they hold legal right to the pending investigation concerning Maria?
    And you also state that the Marines would not drop the case…. The statements lean toward Article 32 not the rape case

    Besides , if you think everything was done to a T,,, My 1st question becomes mute… No reason for change if everything is working to a tee

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 5, 2008 @ 8:57 pm

  256. Mastiffs, the USMC can only do so much when it comes to missing Marines, ongoing investigation or not. Again, they have to follow the regulations set before them. Additionally, the Marines do not have the resources to send other Marines chasing after UA Marines. They had the legal right to the investigation being conducted on base for an incident that happened on base. The USMC does not have jurisdiction in Jacksonville to conduct investigations nor arrest people or what not. The Article 32 was going to happend because of the alleged rape.

    No need to be sarcastic mastiffs. I believe I’m one of the few that comments to you with respect.

    Maybe there is room for improvement within the regs that are currently in place. There is always room for improvement in everthing that surrounds each and every one of us. Everything IMO was done to a T with reference to the EXISTING regulations.

    Comment by Nehi — August 5, 2008 @ 9:11 pm

  257. They had the legal right to the investigation being conducted on base for an incident that happened on base. Yes I think the Local LE thought that info was important etc….. “The Article 32 was going to happened because of the alleged rape. “ I thought you said they would not drop the case, I suggested that they did end the Rape case and were moving to the Article 32

    “No need to be sarcastic mastiffs.” SORRY I really was actually looking for some understanding and felt whent I asked you we had some agreement on a fussy behavior concerning the Marines,,,, I am really interested in the process of congress in this case because I am conflicted,,,, was not meant sarcastic … folks seem to either think that Mary has no basis to be up set,,, or someone should pay heavy…
    I think Mary has basis for her thoughts, however I do not think re writing anything would have changed the outcome now would it be beneficial.

    I believe I’m one of the few that comments to you with respect. YOur right , I have spent a lot of time trying to prove what is said to me in inacurate , maybe I am foolish
    Have a Great Evening
    And THANKS I wil continue to read

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 5, 2008 @ 9:31 pm

  258. The Article 32 was part of the rape case. The rape investigation is what led to the Article 32 so the rape investigation never ceased and wasn’t going to cease until the truth came out. This was the preliminary stage to see what charges if any would be brought forward.

    No you’re not foolish. You’re trying to understand the issues at hand and how things that you don’t know about work. It’s understandable how a family member can see things differently when a loved one is involved. People like me see things as they are with no favors towards no one. I see the warrants, the USMC release, the LE’s comments, interviews with Mary and any other official tid bits thrown out in the media. I do my homework, with help of some other superbly intelligent peeps, and I see the whole picture. I’ve said before that I understand what Mary is trying to accomplish, however, I don’t agree with the way she is doing it. She’s putting Marias face out there as a rape victim when in essence it was most probable there was no rape. Yes rape allegations should all be taken seriously and I beleive Marias allegation was taken seriously. I’m still sitting on the fence as to whether Mary is trying to amend for her own feelings of guilt in some way or if she’s being used as pawn by the senator, I mean it is election year. BTW the senator is part of the Armed Forces Committee, why didn’t he address the changes Mary wants to make before Maria was murdered. IMO Maria was taken seriously. What possessed Maria to have contact with Cesar that day is beyond me. Hopefully when Cesar is brought back that day will be made clearer.

    Good night.

    Comment by Nehi — August 5, 2008 @ 10:03 pm

  259. I am not a family member nor do I know anyone remotely associated with this case, and I also try to see the whole picture. Regardless, family membership does not imply stupidity or inability to look at the case from multiple sides.

    What upsets me, I think, is that MC “supporters” can see no wrong in the MC procedures with regard to this case. I fully support our troops – that is not the issue here (by saying that, I feel like I am like the people who say “regardless, Maria and her baby did not deserve to die” after dissing everything about her and her family).

    I also feel like saying “Can’t we all get along?”

    Argh…. we have no idea how Maria ended up at the Laurean house. People are presuming facts not yet in evidence that I am aware of with regards to that.

    What drew me to this case initially was Mary’s early complaint that the MC was not taking the fact that her daughter was missing seriously. This was before Maria was found dead and buried in the Laurean backyard.

    My concern now is why Cesar has not been extradited, and why we have heard nothing about that process since the early days of his capture. I fear some folks just want this case to go far, far away.

    Comment by walker — August 5, 2008 @ 10:29 pm

  260. Walker – you hit my feeling on the Marines/NCIS (military) right on the head. I understand why the MC “supporters”, as you called them, feel as they do and basically take everything the military side has released as the whole truth and nothing but. They have that right. I’m also not saying anything of the sort that they DIDN’T follow the book.

    Maybe it’s my exposure to the Nixon thing back in ’74 (betrayal of public trust), but I just don’t place blind trust in anyone, official or otherwise, who are in essence saying “trust me, everything was done right”. I’m not so sure that the Marines investigating themselves and/or the General’s answers to the Congressman did much to change my confidence. I hope they did, indeed, do all that could be done and by the book, but I don’t believe we have anything close to the whole story (may never have) and there is certainly room for some thing or things that could or should have been done during this 8 months of investigation that either weren’t done or, perhaps, not to their fullest extent.

    Comment by R356 — August 6, 2008 @ 7:36 am

  261. Marines go missing every single day. Fact is, the Marine Corps doesn’t go looking for them. May give them a call, go to their barracks room, or their house but that is about it. Fact, they had a note from Maria that said she was leaving. What more were they supposed to do? The Marines called Mary the day after and asked her if she knew why Maria would leave or where she would go. Mary said she had no idea. It was the Marines who told Mary they could not do anything until after 30 days. They told her that she would have to file the MPR on Maria. I would like to know if Mary told the detectives her feelings such as “My daughter was raped on base. She was getting ready to testify against the guy and now she’s missing and it’s not like her.” Why didn’t Mary call someone sooner? Why not go to LE sooner than the 19th of December? Oh…because Sgt. Durham told her not to. I’m sorry but if my child was missing and I knew it was unlike him/her to not just up and leave, I would have been on the phone immediately-especially if I felt something wasn’t right. But I forget…everyone wants to blame the military for not jumping up and looking for Maria because she was missing.

    I dont’ just take the the Marine Corps word that the investigation was taken seriously. I don’t just take NCIS’s word. I don’t just take Dewey Hudson’s word that it was taken seriously-and yes he did sit down with Marines and NCIS and they showed him the rape case and he said he felt like everything was done correctly. I take it from my own experience…with a roommate who was allegedly raped and how her situation was handled. I take it from reading the order on sexual assault and what is supposed to be done. And from everything that I have read, it does appear that everything that was supposed to be done, was done.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 6, 2008 @ 8:31 am

  262. anndaniel
    unfortunately I think these people are never going to get that.
    Maria wasn’t a wanted criminal.It looked like she left on her own accord.
    If her own mother was leaning that way and didn’t even make the trip down there at that time,what was the military supposed to do?
    Seriously people look at the facts,not the emotions Mary is displaying.(probably stemming form her own guilt).

    Comment by kdb — August 6, 2008 @ 10:06 am

  263. Ann – I appreciate your views and experiences and am in no way trying sway you or anyone else. I am also not putting the military on trial and will not attempt to speak for Mary’s actions and/or inactions. I’m simply holding my of judgement on who did such a great job until the gaps are filled in (if they ever are).

    kdb – it’s not about “getting it”. If you’re satisfied with what’s been put out there that’s great. I’m just not to that point yet.

    It bothers me that the thread that seems get woven through this is that when something doesn’t add up or make sense, it’s simply because Maria was a liar. I think that’s just too easy.

    Comment by R356 — August 6, 2008 @ 11:12 am

  264. I know we don’t have all the facts.
    But, Mary has not disputed what the Marines did.She thinks it just wasn’t enough.
    The fact is; they did more than she did with the information they had.
    As I said Maria wasn’t a wanted criminal.It looked like she left on her own accord.
    And as it’s been said so many times on this blog;It’s very doubltful that any more COULD have been done given the circumstances.
    This but,but,but,they should have done more on the part of the family is irritating and disrespectful.
    Maria did not deserve to die.But we have to put blame where it truly lies.With the individuals responsible and the decisions they made.Period.
    To say the Marine corps is to blame is like saying “Charlotte” is responsible for each & every one of the murders that occur there .
    people make bad choices.ALL people.
    it’s obvious Mary didn’t know a lot of what was going on in Marias life.She claims Maria never had a boyfriend.We know of 2 (including Cesar).
    She said Maria had to attend this Christmas party.We know that isn’t true.She also said they had to set in alphabetical order.We know that isn’t true.
    The fact is they had a note saying she was leaving.Mary said herself that she wasn’t truthful.They did all they could with what they had.They are not mindreaders .

    Comment by kdb — August 6, 2008 @ 12:50 pm

  265. And I am absolutely not satisfied with whats been put out there in regards to the murder.
    As I said above.The actions that the Marine Corps took is not being disputed by Mary.
    Maria never reported to the authorities she was afraid.She went to that house (Cesars) on her own as per LE informatin.Note here : NOT the Marines information.OCSD information.

    Comment by kdb — August 6, 2008 @ 12:55 pm

  266. Have we considered separating the case in Congress from the Murder, Approaching it as “ is the current system adequate for people who accuse others of Violent crimes in the Military? it is not a wrongful death case etc…. it is about improving the protocol …
    There are some facts in Place
    Maria was a Marine, Cesar was a Marine, Maria had marks on her record that seemed to interfere with her allegations, Cesar had little or no Marks on his record…. The Marine did not feel Cesar was a threat , the Marines made no connection between the disappearance of Maria and the rape allegations ,,, the marines system did not alarm the command when she disappeared, But you think the Marines did everything according to the book and everything they should … Well if that is true,,, The Marines system brought them to a wrong conclusion,,,, and I would have to say the book needs to change. Up until now ,I just thought it was a few people (that are only human) making a poor judgment calls !!!! again not that they murdered Maria. if Cesar did murder Maria ,,,we then know Cesar was a threat… It is funny when I hear the Marines did everything right Mary did everything wrong ,,, The Marines have the information Mary has very little information…. HUM!! If the Marine really knew so much truth in the case and Mary very little HUM!!!!! With that logic who becomes responsible ,,, the Logic just does not make sense (by the way did anyone consider that Legal told Mary to stay at home? they felt if Maria was to show up she would go there? And then they were advised to go to the press? Give the victim the same benefit of the doubt as you give the Military

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 6, 2008 @ 4:59 pm

  267. Also when I hear that the Marines did such a bad Psyc evaluation on Maria,, do you also think they did a bad evaluation on Cesar?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 6, 2008 @ 5:02 pm

  268. Please expound…when did Maria have a psych eval? The Marines did not feel Cesar was a threat based on what Maria told them. How in the hell are they supposed to know she was afraid if she didn’t tell them? Again, they had a note that Durham brought to them that was from Maria. Durham sure didn’t seem to be worried about her leaving. He didn’t feel Mary should do anything at all to begin with. So, why should the command have thought she disappeared when the MPO was never violated-to their knowledge. Whenever a Marine goes UA for whatever reason-they don’t do anything special. If you recall, not long after this situation with Maria and they found her body, there was a young Marine couple from California that went missing. And if you further recall, her family was all out in the press basically accusing him of hurting her-even though there was no evidence of that at all. Did the Marines get involved? Nope, they sure didn’t. Did NCIS? Yep, they did b/c her family put out an MPR. But the Marine Corps itself did not do anything. And guess what, they were found and they were fine. They willingly went UA and agreed to surrender. But the Marine Corps did not do anything. Nothing interfered with Maria’s allegations…if they did the Commander would not have been intent on seeing this through to the end. And that’s what he was doing…seeing it through…even when NCIS did not feel that charges were warranted. And yes, if you read the Marine Corps Order on Sexual Assault, I do believe that they did everything-based on what I have read in the media and what I have witnessed during my time in the Marine Corps and based on people that I know in the Marine Corps-past and present.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 6, 2008 @ 5:31 pm

  269. kdb – when did OCSD release information that stated Maria went to the Laurean home on her own? Last I knew, we didn’t have a solid answer on that question, as well as, when she arrived there or why. It’s very possible that I missed it.

    I’m also not trying to be irritating or disrespectful to anyone. I just have questions that I don’t feel have been answered.

    Comment by R356 — August 6, 2008 @ 5:41 pm

  270. It does not matter if Maria was a marine
    It does not matter that Cesar was a Marine.They both happen to live in the same community.
    The fact is we have 2 or More individuals involved in a crime that can happen anywhere.
    In a civilian community if someone reported a missing person and the police obtained that note,they would say she left of her own free will and nothing more would have been done.Period.The fact is they were looking for her Because she was a Marine and it appeared she had gone AWOL.In a civilian community the police departments hands would have been tied.

    If a rape victim went to her attackers home,that woudl not look good in the trial had the victim not been murdered.In the court of law your credibility counts.Why would it not be of any value in the Marine corps?

    Why is this so complicated for you to understand?

    You say the book eeds to change.What woudl you propose they do?
    Maria & Cesar disobeyed the MPO.(most likely because of their reationship).
    Yes indeed Hum.The Marines did know the facts in Marias case pertaining to her relationship with Cesar and Mary didnt.HUM what does that tell you?! It tells most of us that she didnt want to share any details of her personal life.Mary also didnt know about Marias pervious boyfriend.Maria evidently had her reasons.
    It wouldnt matter If somebody told her to stay home now owuld it.? Are you honestly saying you would obey an order like that? I would think not.Ah yes BUT the TRUTH is Mary herself didn’t think Maria was in any danger.
    Maria did have all the benefits form the moment she was murderd and we all learned of this case.I don’t think any of us fathomed she was actually having an affair with Cesar.Although sources actually close to Maria & Cesar aleady knew.Not you not Mary either.

    we are not in 3rd grade.because Maria had a bad evaluation or two doesnt mean everyone else gets one! where is that coming from?! Geez ,everyone earns their own merits and own what they did to get the evaluation they reveive.I have not heard it said or reported that Cesar helped her steal money form the kitty.I have not heard anyone say he prompted her to lie about her brother.I have not heard anyone report that he did not get up on time for PT.

    If you really want to know the truth about this tragic murder you have to stop grabbing crap out of the air.It’s like talking to a brick wall even though you have heard some of the facts.You argue the ones we do have.
    It was Mary herself who indicated Maria had psych issues!

    r356 I beleive it was stated by captain Rick sutherland that she went to the house on her own.

    Comment by kdb — August 6, 2008 @ 5:47 pm

  271. VERY INTERSESTING, at http://portal.jdnews.com/lauterbach/pdf/Probable%20cause%20affidavit.pdfPage 1, Onslow vs Ceasr it states that Lauterbach’s due date was in Close proximity to the timing of the Reported Rape , and continues that the Military did plan to use the DNA,,,,, I will have to rewatch Graftin, I do know that the Military Initial Press lease states otherwise…it says the 14th,,,,, I was always under the impression that the dayes matched close to the rape. I thought this was odd

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 6, 2008 @ 5:52 pm

  272. The Murder does not matter that she was a Marine Howvere this post is about the case before Congress that does involve the Marines

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 6, 2008 @ 5:53 pm

  273. let’s stay on topic should we?
    are we talking about the due date or f the Marine corps did their job?!
    The babys due date and the father who knows?!
    Hopefully we will find that out as more facts are released.
    It just seems you are going all willy nilly grasping at stuff to make your point.

    Comment by kdb — August 6, 2008 @ 5:56 pm

  274. Yes based on Marias case in which they could not have done anything more with the info they had.

    Comment by kdb — August 6, 2008 @ 5:57 pm

  275. Mastiff’s, if you are talking about the “psych eval” as Maria being described as “solid”…that is not a psyc eval. It is pros/cons…point system that looks at well you perform your job, if you have had any “counseling” sheets-not counseling as in psychiatrist, your rifle score, your PFT score, hair, uniform, etc.

    PS…counseling sheets in the military is just an evaluation sheet…you are given them for doing good and doing bad.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 6, 2008 @ 6:01 pm

  276. kdb
    Due date is important I had expresses that the Marines were not so forthcoming in the initial statement this proves they knew that Maria did not conceive in May,, when they made that statement they KNEW THIS and it was misleading it also answers the fussy (as described above) Grafftins report, she was aware that the Marines made one official statement of Conception May 14 however that statement was not true she was in a hard possition

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 6, 2008 @ 6:02 pm

  277. Thanks oyu Anndaniel!!!
    Based on their merits that they as individuals are responsible for…….

    Comment by kdb — August 6, 2008 @ 6:03 pm

  278. want it true Maria herself thought her due date was so and so until the doctor told her it was a different date?
    They only can go by what she reports to them and by the medical records they would have obtained AFTER the murder.

    Comment by kdb — August 6, 2008 @ 6:05 pm

  279. Hi kdb – not to upset, but if we are sticking to facts, did Capt. Sutherland say Maria went to Laurean’s home on her own or do you just believe he did. This is a pretty inportant point. Does anyone else know for sure? Was it in the Q & A?

    Comment by R356 — August 6, 2008 @ 6:06 pm

  280. I believe it as in the Q&A
    I am off to mow.Where I wont run into any brick walls.

    Comment by kdb — August 6, 2008 @ 6:08 pm

  281. Good luck with that, LOL!

    Comment by R356 — August 6, 2008 @ 6:10 pm

  282. R356, from what I recall Capt. Sutherland answered this to a group of people that asked him questions-wasn’t from OTC. The question asked was “Did Maria and Cesar have any contact prior to her going to his house?” And his answer was “Yes”.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 6, 2008 @ 6:13 pm

  283. Thanks, Ann. I remember that question, now. Do you think the “yes” means they had contact? That she went to his house on her own? Both?

    Comment by R356 — August 6, 2008 @ 6:23 pm

  284. I think it does…just from other stuff I have heard from other people…that isn’t out in public.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 6, 2008 @ 6:28 pm

  285. Mary Lauterbach is just as much to blame for the death of her daughter as any Marine. As someone that is very familiar with the case, I am surprised at how dishonest she is being.

    She never wanted Maria to have that baby. She didn’t believe that rape allegations. Yet, she blames the Marines for not doing more? The sad fact is Maria did lie often. These lies made any rape allegations hard if not impossible to prove. How can one be mad that is took so long for an article 32 hearing when NCIS was given multiple and differing stories? It is horrible what happened to Maria and the innocent child, but Mary needs to stop throwing rocks and realize she was at fault as well. I guess it is easier to get angry and blame others than realize parental mistakes.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 6, 2008 @ 6:52 pm

  286. Marine, how are you familiar w/ this case?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 6, 2008 @ 7:30 pm

  287. Paul Chick said early on that Maria and Cesar were carrying on a “friendly relationship” after the accusations.

    I just posted an update with some new stuff on several cases. I touch on Maria and Cesar’s relationship there.

    Comment by Lindell Kay — August 6, 2008 @ 7:34 pm

  288. Ann,

    I would rather not comment.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 6, 2008 @ 7:45 pm

  289. Marine…understood and respected.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 6, 2008 @ 7:48 pm

  290. kdb
    The medical records of her due date have nothing to do with what Maria said or not said,,,what Mary said or not said…… The Mitary has put out 2 date statments, both after she dies…. so unlike Maria when the date could change…… The Marines state to the public, Concieved May 14th,,, the other report to the Court that would be a conception date close to the rape….
    I again am not blaming the Militray for the death or Maria’s lieing, however it does speak to me that theye is something real fishy,,,, and you can continue to blame Mary for the murder and Maria for the Murder,,,,, but I am speaking to The Marines and the picture they painted to the public is different than the documents they gave to the courts

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 6, 2008 @ 8:05 pm

  291. Do you have a link to the USMC putting out a due date? I have only seen a date of conception, which was May 14, 2007.

    Let’s see what was said by the USMC, NCIS and JAG 1-15-08 Press Conference.:
    “May 11th Pregnancy test is negative.

    On June 27th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach is ill and seeks medical attention. She is administered a pregnancy test. The result of the test is positive with medical personnel estimating the conception date as 14 May 2007. LCpl Lauterbach’s UVA calls NCIS to report the pregnancy. LCpl Lauterbach goes to NCIS to make a statement regarding her pregnancy and belief that Cpl Laurean is the father as a result of the alleged rape.

    On October 18, 2007, NCIS recommends no disciplinary action be initiated on the alleged rape until forensic evidence DNA can be retrieved from the child. Cpl Laurean denied having any sexual contact with LCpl Lauterbach and this was believed to be significant evidence. ”

    The link you provided in an earlier post does not wol unless you remove the word page. But I did find the probable cause warrant and this is what Captain Rick Sutherland states:

    “”Information from the NCIS revealed that Lautherbach was identified as pregnant in the months following the rape. Lauterbach’s due date was in close proximity to the timing of the of the reported sexual assault, leading investigators to believe that the baby may have been conceived from the sexual assault. The investigative plan from NCIS may have included comparing DNA from the child (after birth) to Cesar Armando Laurean.”

    The USMC spoke at the press conference and said that her DATE OF CONCEPTION was May 14th. (Strange that it is just three days after she has made her alegations against Laurean.)

    IF you read closely the USMC is saying that NCIS said that Cpl Laurean denied having any sexual contact with LCpl Lauterbach and this was believed to be significant evidence….the DNA from the baby would be significant evidence BECAUSE Cpl Laurean had DENIED having ANY sexual contact.

    Maria TOLD NCIS “LCpl Lauterbach’s UVA calls NCIS to report the pregnancy. LCpl Lauterbach goes to NCIS to make a statement regarding her pregnancy and belief that Cpl Laurean is the father as a result of the alleged rape.”

    Going back to the information given by the USMC at the press conference. “LCpl Lauterbach reports to NCIS an alleged sexual encounter with Cpl Laurean on March 26, 2007, and a second encounter approximately two weeks later.”

    Pregnancy test on May 11 is negative. and yet NCIS which BTW is NOT the USMC continue to investigate her allegations.

    In June when she goes back to Lejeune sick bay does another pregnancy test and it is positive. By this time 13.5 weeks have elapsed from the March 26 encounter and 11.5 weeks from the April 9-10 encounter. As our Gunny would say Close proximity is only good in hand gernades and horseshoes…

    Comment by Lucky Duck — August 7, 2008 @ 3:19 am

  292. Lucky Duck, at 13.5 weeks or even 11.5 weeks…surely there would have been other symptoms of pregnancy. It wasn’t until the end of June that she had her symptoms…which in my opinion was about 6 weeks from the estimated date of conception…which is when most women start experiencing symptoms.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 8:52 am

  293. Ann, thank you so much for the info on the California couple. I was wondering what happened there. I read somewhere that when Cesar was questioned about the rape he denied all sexual contact and offered to undergo a polygraph test. I can’t find a link for it, but I read it in the beginning of the case.

    Comment by justice4all — August 7, 2008 @ 11:51 am

  294. Justice, it was on Dateline. Megan Grafton said that when they brought Cesar in he denied the rape allegations and was willing to undergo a polygraph.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 11:54 am

  295. Thanks, Ann. If he is fighting extradition from Mexico, he would be free down there, but couldn’t show his nose up here without running the risk of being arrested, AND could be tried with the dp hovering over his head. I expect his lawyer will try to find out what is happening.

    Comment by justice4all — August 7, 2008 @ 12:16 pm

  296. Ann, IF the Mexicans decided to try the case there, just for example. Would that have to be it for Cesar? Would it mean that he has already been tried and cannot be tried again for the same thing?

    Comment by justice4all — August 7, 2008 @ 12:19 pm

  297. justice4all , I know you are right about sexual contact. I also remember a statement (something like) He would face an Article 32 if the child was his, I think he talked about running to Mexico, because he was affraid the child was his .

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 4:14 pm

  298. Ann the NCIS actually states that the conception date is closes enough to the rape date,,, her symptoms are a perception of Maria’s however has you have state prior, the Military has the evidence and I do not see them lying to Onslow Court

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 4:18 pm

  299. Lucky Duck , Just so I understand. when you say “As our Gunny would say Close proximity is only good in hand gernades and horseshoes…” are implying you think the Military would tell a court of law that “Lauterbach’s due date was in Close proximity to the timing of the Reported Rape , ” and not mean it???? The statement is clear that the conception date is close to the rape date (within error)
    All other statements in the press also lean towards Maria being 8 months…. The only time the date is different ,,, is when the Marine’s make 1 public statement…. And they Qualify the statement ” ON JUNE 27th we estimated the May 14th conception date”,,,, they do not say HER DUE DATE IS,,,, once again all of us woman know , your 1st appointment seldom gives the correct date…
    I think the Marines choose their words very carefully

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 4:47 pm

  300. This is a lively group, (@least you’re not all on the same side) trust me discussions like those are BORIN! That being said, I got to take the Mother’s side on this one, I can’t understand the comment that somehow she (the mother) was just as much at fault for her daughter’s death, that was a weird comment, you had to really reach for to get to that one.

    My only question would be if he didn’t get Maria pregnant by raping her then why would he kill her, see where I’m coming from? Now I doubt there’s anyone on this site that would argue that he obviously killed her, so with that assumption what other possible motive could he have for killing her? I’m open but I just can’t get past that simple truth just staring me in the face. One act leads seamlessly into the next.

    Comment by DancingTurkeyLips — August 7, 2008 @ 5:03 pm

  301. DancingTurkeyLips,,, I am in total agreement and you will get a lot of come backs for the LOL,,,,,, think she was raped,,, there are a few of us that think so,,,,, but watch out LOL,,, you will not be bored

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 5:10 pm

  302. Mastiff’s, while narrowing down the exact date of conception and the exact due date can be wrong…I’m here to tell you that with both of my children-one I had in the military and one I didn’t-they were within 2-3 days of each other…and I had my children alot more recent than you and technology has come a long way since you gave birth. Alot of women I know, when given their due dates, had their children all within a couple days of their due date.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 5:59 pm

  303. DancingTurkeyLips, if the baby wasn’t his, I don’t know why Cesar would kill her. But *if* he was falsely accused of rape, I can see how something like that might make someone angry enough to kill. We don’t know what transpired on that day but *if* she went there to tell him she was leaving, she was sorry for making the accusations and he didn’t have to worry the baby wasn’t his….I can see how that might trigger something. Again, this is all speculation, as I’m still not sure what could have happened that day.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:02 pm

  304. Ann then why would the Military give 2 dates,,, May 14th is not in close proxcimity to the rapes ,,, the other statment about dates changing was to state that on June 27th the Military gave that date to Maria, because thats what medical thought then ,,, however ,,, short and sweet I do not think On June 27th they were lying …. but then it changed,,,
    That would explain the 2 dates,,,,, If you are right then the Miltary Lied to the Court and I just do not believe that ….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 6:09 pm

  305. I have never seen where 2 dates have been released…not by NCIS, not by the military. They only thing I’ve ever seen is the May 14 date…so I dont’ know where you’re getting that they have lied. Now, the local LE got their info from Mary…Mary is the one that said she was close to her due date…that is what *she* told authorities.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:11 pm

  306. Ann the 2nd date can be found at http://portal.jdnews.com/lauterbach/pdf/Probable%20cause%20affidavit.pdfPage 1, Onslow vs Ceasr it states that Lauterbach’s due date was in Close proximity to the timing of the Reported Rape , and continues that the Military did plan to use the DNA,,,,, and I am sure you remember the May14th date
    Let me know what you think after reading

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 6:15 pm

  307. Link doesn’t work.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:18 pm

  308. Ann sorry the link did not work iit is probable cause affidavit Page 1 on this site http://portal.jdnews.com/lauterbach/

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 6:20 pm

  309. Maria herself reported that the pregnancy was a result of the rape…even though she was given an estimate of May 14 of conception. And that is what the Marine Corps was going by when they gave their press conference. If further investigation showed that the conception was earlier and did coincide with the sexual assaults, then so be it. It doesn’t mean the military lied about anything. They can only go based on what they knew–and if something else came about through further investigation…then so be it. But as of now nothing has been relased as to what her due date was…based on the May 14 conception, it would have been sometime in February. If something changed, and it was later found out, then it did…but we dont’ know that.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:23 pm

  310. Ann They are stateing the NCIS states and confirms,,,, THis is testimopny from NCIS Confirms the due date to be….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 6:26 pm

  311. Ann , You are so critical of Mary when she states her impression and feelings,,,, I am suprised that you can not see that the Miltary wanted the public to think her conception date was 6 weeks after the rape,,,, When I started the dialogue I felt the Military had some personell issues etc…. but now I am beginning to wonder how deep it goes

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 6:28 pm

  312. And it’s possible NCIS is going based off of Maria’s signed statements that she felt the pregancy was a result of the sexual assaults….which she later changed her mind on. And based on what Lindell has said, NCIS has never believed that Cesar was the father. So…what would they have to lie about again? Or are you still looking to blame the military for something? You talk out of both sides of your mouth sometimes. You say you don’t fault the military on one hand, but then on the other you say they lied about due dates. Doesn’t make sense to me.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:29 pm

  313. How does the military want anyone to think her conception date was 6 weeks after the rape? That is what Maria said, that is what Maria told NCIS.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:32 pm

  314. And yes, I may be critical of Mary because I don’t agree with what she’s doing in Congress. I think she’s going about it the wrong way.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:33 pm

  315. And I’m sure Maria told NCIS that based on the exam the Navy doctors gave her and based on her LMP and the internal sonogram that was done…since they are pretty accurate when dating a pregnancy. So, it wasn’t the Marines that gave her an estimated conception date….oh wait, maybe they forced the Navy docs to forge it…afterall this is some big conspiracy right?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:35 pm

  316. AS stated prior I did not on the on set think the Military did anything except make human error,,,, this has changed my mind… and they did do something shady,,, they wanted the public to think the date of conception was different than what the medical reports show,,,,
    I do not blame them for the murder, however I do think ESPECIALLY NOW,, they are hiding something….. As I stated Prior,,, I bet it is that they were complacent and passive ,,, ,however they became aggressive when they miss represented the dates to the public….. Tons of stuff makes sense to me now

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 6:37 pm

  317. Let’s email the LtCol then…the one that gave the press conference and ask him where did he get his information about Maria’s due dates. Or better yet, let’s email Paul Ciccarelli and ask him where he got his information from…maybe Megan Grafton as well.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:39 pm

  318. Ann
    when you say “And I’m sure Maria told NCIS that based on the exam the Navy doctors gave her and based on her LMP and the internal sonogram that was done” That NCIS never even verified the date …. wow they really did nothing to investigate if that is true

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 6:39 pm

  319. I know when I told my command I was pregnant, I turned over to them a piece of paper giving them my estimated delivery date…perhaps that is what Maria turned over to them. Otherwise, due to patient privacy I don’t think they can just call and speak to the docs and ask them. If I’m not mistaken based on Maria being a rape victim, I don’t think the OB’s knew of her rape.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:41 pm

  320. What your saying is that NCIS took maria’s word on the due date and never investigated it for the rape case,,, then were basing the case on that evidence….WOW WOW!!!! the Military did not do a very good job

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 6:45 pm

  321. Ann quite while your ahead… your only proving her points

    Comment by DancingTurkeyLips — August 7, 2008 @ 6:46 pm

  322. What I am saying is that you are given a piece of paper from your doctor. Noone has the authority to go look through your medical records. The piece of paper is sufficient enough since it is official. I don’t believe the doctors even knew Maria was a victim of rape-as that falls into victim’s rights-if I’m not mistaken. As well as NCIS doesn’t have the right to go through her medical records. Maria would have been given an official statement from her doctor.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:47 pm

  323. I don’t have to quit anything…I’m not proving anything to her. She has double standards…it’s ok for her though…afterall she is supposedly family.

    Since you’re family mastiff’s…how is Anne doing? Has she had her baby yet? I believe he was due sometime this month.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 6:50 pm

  324. Ann So NCIS does not have the authoirty to validate the evidence they are going to use in the case WOW that is a procedure that needs change,,,, all evidence should be investigated before any ruling….. I find that hard to believe

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 7:02 pm

  325. If you read my post…I said *possible* they were using her statement-and by her statement meaning the official letter from her OB stating her estimated conception and due date. And I don’t believe they have the authority to look through her medical records-I could be wrong on that but I thought that falls into patient/doctor confidentialiy.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 7:05 pm

  326. Is it possible that they could they have obtained a warrant if they weren’t sure that things fit together? I don’t know either, just throwing that out there.

    I was glad to see you two come up for some air. I couldn’t hit my refresh fast enough to keep up.

    Comment by R356 — August 7, 2008 @ 7:10 pm

  327. Ann, I agree they would have used the OB report,,, thats how you get a date…. That is the same information they had in Jan when they made the statement to the press stateing one date and telling the court another date,,,,

    and I hope NCIS can investigate and validate any information they plan on using in a trial

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 7:12 pm

  328. R356 LOL

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 7:14 pm

  329. You go Ann, sure wish Mary would lay claim to mastiffs. I don’t think any of us have doubted the baby ‘could’ belong to CL. Most of us agree he did not rape her……she was a fling and tried unsuccessfully to end his marriage to Christina. The events leading to her death are a mystery to hopefully be solved. What we know…..Maria was a liar and a thief. imo CL thought he could be the father,due to their office rendevous, feared a court martial finding him guilty of rape due to DNA and a life sentence in Levenwortth. I still do not think CL killed her. I think he does know who did. Maria lied to Mary about the party. Kinda strange she never went to the party and CL did not, AND she ended up at his house. Anyone think she bought the ticket for him? Think she was at his house to see him one last time? think his wife could have killed Maria????

    Comment by Happy — August 7, 2008 @ 7:19 pm

  330. Is Mary going to let Annie keep this baby or is she going to brow beat her into giving the baby up for adoption like Christopher?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 7, 2008 @ 7:22 pm

  331. Happy can you buy a bus ticket for someonelse or is it like the AirPort

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 7:23 pm

  332. Whoa. Mastiffs, is Annie expecting again?

    Comment by Nehi — August 7, 2008 @ 7:26 pm

  333. didn’t CL ride a bus from NC to Mexico????Do u think he had a ticket with HIS name on it? Bus stations aren’t as secure as airports.

    Comment by Happy — August 7, 2008 @ 7:28 pm

  334. Nehl, Read the post they are made because I asked about the conflicting statements that the Miltary made,,,, answer your question,,,Not that I know of,,,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 7:28 pm

  335. Meant they are mad because (not made)

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

  336. Happy, remeber he had alias,, If you can your right the ticket Maria supossably purchase did not mean she was going to leave,,, I thought you would have to have the same name on the ticket as your ID

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 7:31 pm

  337. Maybe Gabriel’s father lives in the El Paso area.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 7, 2008 @ 7:34 pm

  338. Mastiff’s, from what I have heard, Annie is pregnant and is due to give birth this month…another little boy. So, no, I didn’t make that statement for any other reason except I was curious if she had him yet.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 7:36 pm

  339. Ann Hopefully we will find out, if he does and he is not Military I am sure he would have come forward,,, being in Texas would put him above suspicions…There could be someone out there who is afraid to grieve and that would be ashame

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 7:43 pm

  340. Okay looked at your link. I’ve read it numerous times. Let me ask you this mastiffs, in that particular doc Mary is listed as her step mother. Should I take that as fact or as information relayed incorrectly? There’s numerous other items listed in there that do not match to what has been verified since then, but, that’s for another day.

    I think what AnnDaniel is trying to say is that a Woman Marines’ word is not sufficient enough for the military to accept that she is pregnant. That pregnancy has to be validated and confirmed, in this case, the Naval Hospital. The mother to be is given a chit to take back to her command. This chit serves as an official document that announces that the Marine is indeed pregnant which will allow her command to place her on light/no duty as per the doctors recommendation and will allow the command to make arrangements for the Marine to obtain maternity clothing. Due dates are provided to the command as well. Of course we both know that in that particular early stage of pregnancy the doctors most likely base the estimated due date on the information the patient provides the doctor. As time progresses the sonograms and what not allow the doctors to actually pin point a more accurate delivery date. So in as far as I know NCIS most likely obtained Marias due date thru that chit she was issued by the doctor.

    Comment by Nehi — August 7, 2008 @ 7:44 pm

  341. AnnDaniel I hope all goes well for Annie. I wish her luck and happiness.

    Comment by Nehi — August 7, 2008 @ 7:48 pm

  342. Thank you Nehi…great explanation! Again, I will say that the Naval Hospital does internal sono at the confirmation appointment. And those are more accurate than the sonograms done around the 20 week one.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 7:48 pm

  343. Nehi, I wish her the best of luck as well. It seems she would have been pregnant through this whole ordeal with her sister. Pregnancy is hard enough without having to go through something as she did.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 7:51 pm

  344. Ann do you really think that being erroneously accused of rape would cause CL to kill Maria? thats an interesting approach & I never considered it from that angle, I don’t beleive it for a second but it’s unique. Wouldn’t it make more sense that he would premeditate this murder to cover up the fast approaching DNA evidence Maria had inside her?

    Now I am a noob here & trying read-back to catch up, but are a few of you guys seious I’m amazed, “I still do not think CL killed her.” beHappy, OMG, OMFG, lol did I miss something.

    It seemed to me that this was well thought out, even down to how he borrowed every peice of evidence, which he then returned them (most of them), thus having the ability of dening a clear chain of possesion. I think CL is an extremely intelligent narcissist, who really thought if he burned the body (ies) completely he could get away with this Murder and his problem(s). What do you think? Doesn’t that make more sense then that he’s innocent?

    Also please help me Anonymous, where is it stated either in the press or transcripts that Mary brow-beat anyone? please advise I need to go read this, or is this too specuation from the vocal minority who believes CL is innocent, (LOL). I a trying my hardest to be polite, it’s difficult for me to read from anyone the CL wasn’t guilty. They did found Maria buried in CL’s backyard right.

    It seems to me that arguing over the precise “guess-ti-ment” of the due date is silly & boring it has almost nothing to due with the situation, and no matter what any of you come up with there’s a plausible answer or excuse that either side can make, therefore it doesn’t advance the discussion at all. (My Opinion)

    Now I just got here so maybe you guys have talked out the other topic, I’ll go back & start reading & check to see if and when we move beyond the “Due-Date”

    Comment by DancingTurkeyLips — August 7, 2008 @ 7:57 pm

  345. Nehi “I think what AnnDaniel is trying to say is that a Woman Marines’ word is not sufficient enough for the military to accept that she is pregnant. That pregnancy has to be validated and confirmed, in this case, the Naval Hospital. The mother to be is given a chit to take back to her command? We agree on that totally, However the statement is that NCIS confirms,,,,
    Also why would Grafftin find it suprising that Maria no longer thought the baby was a result of rape if the conseption date was not close to the date of rape? Why would the Marines confirm. (that is different than someones title) that they were pursueing the rape case and going to use the Baby DNA as evidence if that is not what they were going to do?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 7:59 pm

  346. Sorry or all the typ-o-’s I should proof before sending

    Comment by DancingTurkeyLips — August 7, 2008 @ 8:00 pm

  347. Just for clarification. The “probable cause” affidavit in question was written and signed by Capt. Sutherland of the OCSD. It appears that NCIS (as well as others) provided information that was used in this affidavit, but this was not an NCIS statement.

    Comment by R356 — August 7, 2008 @ 8:04 pm

  348. Nehi Hit the wrong key before I read Sorry try this LOL “I think what AnnDaniel is trying to say is that a Woman Marines’ word is not sufficient enough for the military to accept that she is pregnant. That pregnancy has to be validated and confirmed, in this case, the Naval Hospital. The mother to be is given a chit to take back to her command? We agree on that totally, However the statement is that NCIS confirms that the Baby DNA was to be used as evidence,,,
    Also why would Grafftin find it surprising that Maria no longer thought the baby was a result of rape,, if the conception date was not close to the date of rape? Why would the Military even consider the Baby as evidence if the conception date was not close???? Why would the Marines confirm a statement to Onslow County if it was not what was in the record ???? (that is different than someone’s title and I think we both know that) Why were the Marines pursuing the rape case and going to use the Baby DNA as evidence if that is not what they were going to do?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 8:06 pm

  349. Turkey Lips – welcome to the fray. I can almost promise that with posts like your’s above, you’ll not find this group boring for long. I’m pretty much with you, but I’m sure you’ll find some lightning out there. Go get’em!

    Comment by R356 — August 7, 2008 @ 8:15 pm

  350. Mary admits to having a stern conversation with Maria to give the baby up for adoption, the day Maria went missing.

    Also, Maria’s younger sister gave up her baby born in 2007 up for adoption. She probably received the same stern conversation from Mary that Maria did.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 7, 2008 @ 8:15 pm

  351. Anonymous – I am pretty sure that the conversation between Mary and Maria about the baby took place prior to the 14th. Perhaps the 13th. Do we have any idea what the circumstances are or were regarding Anne’s baby?

    Comment by R356 — August 7, 2008 @ 8:21 pm

  352. I cannot speak for Graffin, sorry mastiffs. I believe that the alleged rape was going to be found to be false, however, both Maria and Cesar had made false statement during this investigation. I’ve explained my thoughts on this before. Cesar said “no sex” Maria said one consensual and one rape. The babies DNA would not have proven the rape in April because of the 14 May conception date, however, if found to be Cesars it would have proven that there had been sexual contact between the two in May. What this proves is that Maria may have omitted to tell NCISl of sexual relations with Cesar in May very close to the time that she reported the alleged rape and that Cesar had lied about the “no sex”. What you have now are making “false official statement”, adultry and fraternization. No one can make false official statements during a military investigation and not expect to be reprimanded.

    Now back to the affidavit. So because it states that Mary is Marias step mother should that be the final say? Same goes with the statement where Maria called Maria a liar and bi-polar. Mary says that her words were taken out of context. It’s there in black in white but what is it. Someone misunderstanding what was really meant or that the investigation was in its early stages and not everything was known at that time to be accurate? Again there are some things in that document that have changed as the murder investigation has progressed.

    Comment by Nehi — August 7, 2008 @ 8:26 pm

  353. Anonymous,, What is your point?
    You know,,,, I am about done,,,, this gets so stupid… every now and then some one who seems to want to debate honestly pops up,,, but most leave because of this kind of egging on….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

  354. Mastiff’s, the baby’s DNA was important because prior to Maria changing her statement that Cesar wasn’t the father, she stated that he was. So therefore the way to prove he was or wasn’t was a DNA test. I think even after Maria said he wasn’t the father, I think they still planned on doing a DNA test to see who was lying-Maria or Cesar.

    TurkeyLips, welcome aboard. I do believe Cesar killed Maria…never said that I didnt’ think he did. But just basing that the body was in his back yard doesn’t mean he did. I believe his wife had motive as well. But it has been stated from authorities that Christina didn’t have any knowledge of it. Anyway, I don’t know why he killed her. The only thing I was trying to do when I offered up the false allegations as a motive was just looking at it from a different angle. I know how I and my husband would feel if he were falsely accused. No, I wouldn’t kill the person but I would want to be the snot outta her…and I would make sure to that something happened to her for making false statements. But, until his trial gets here, we won’t have any idea of what triggered him on that day.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 8:31 pm

  355. Mastiff’s, if you leave it’s due to you wanting to leave. Everyone here has their own opinions…some agree, some don’t. That’s just something you will have to deal with. Not everyone is going to agree with you and find fault with every aspect of the military and how they did or didn’t handle the situation. Such is life though.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 8:34 pm

  356. Nehi — I agree on the sexual part and the Article 32,,,, but my point is why would the Military continue to investigate a rape and state the were going to use the DNA as evidence,,, (they make this statement a number of times) if that is not what they were going to do? … This information will not change,,,… this speaks to the actions prior to the murder…. I do not believe that NCIS did not know Maria’s due date,,,, I’m sure they did,,, why would they confirm they were waiting for the birth in the rape case if they were only using it to prove consensual sex….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 8:35 pm

  357. Ann, I actual like the debate , and I do not oppose disagreement

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

  358. Why would they still wait just to prove consensual sex? The commander wanted to see the whole thing through. If Cesar was the father, it would show that he lied about no sexual contact. No, it wouldn’t necessarily prove rape…but it would show he lied.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

  359. Ann that I understand,,,, but would the Military continue to state, that they were using it in the rape case….. if that was not there intent?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 8:40 pm

  360. The way I look at it is it was a rape case that was open….no other case against Cesar was. And that is what the Article 32 is for….similar to grand jury, they’d show their evidence-perhaps baby’s DNA, statements…and the judge would reccommend if it should go to court martial or not. I don’t know how it all works b/c I never had to go through it. But, I believe the Article 32 would determine what charges he and/or she would face-if any.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 7, 2008 @ 8:45 pm

  361. matiffs, you’re right NCIS had to know the due date. Okay how is it that the rape investigation was leading to the Article 32…..Now remember the Regimental Commander was pushing the issue at hand even if NCIS had advised that there was nothing to back up the rape allegation, no proof etc. All this began because of the rape allegation. All this ties in. They were going to use the Article 32 to prove/disapprove the rape allegation which in turn would allow for the charges of false statement etc. Both were going to have to go on the stand and make their statements etc. regarding the rape allegation. There after it would be decided what charges if any would be rendered. Knowing that the baby was most likely was not the product of the rape allegation the Regimental Commander was probably looking at nailing them for false allegations etc. The only proof they had to prove any sexual contact was the baby.

    Comment by Nehi — August 7, 2008 @ 8:47 pm

  362. Ann , I guess that does not answer my question and that’s okay,,, I was asking weather the Marines would use the Baby DNA in the rape case if the dates did not match up???? According to Grafftin and the Affidavit Link they both state that was the NCIS intention
    The Marines were not trying to solve a mystery when they spoke of their intensions,,, The Intensions of the NCIS were known to the NCIS……

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 8:52 pm

  363. Nehi Okay, I do think that is what they were doing, however The Baby would never be a part of that equation if it was impossable for it to be a product of the rape…. It simply would never fly in the grand jury atmosphere…

    I know they were both under tremendous stress by NCIS,,, they both had done things that wre not fitting to be a Marine..

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 8:57 pm

  364. Not AnnDaniel mastiffs, but yes, the babies DNA could/would be used in the rape case even though it was known that the baby may not have been Cesars in accordance with Marias statement, in October I beleive, that the the baby was not Cesars and the medical due date given.

    Comment by Nehi — August 7, 2008 @ 8:59 pm

  365. The baby didn’t fit in the equation you’re correct mastiffs, but, that Regimental Commander was going to nail one or both of them. The only physical proof was that baby. Because even though Maria said the baby wasn’t Cesars it could be thought that the baby may have been his. Perhaps they continued seeing each other up until she made the rape allegations. IMO

    Comment by Nehi — August 7, 2008 @ 9:05 pm

  366. I am one that thinks some errors were made by the MC, the NCIS, and local LE during many phases of this case. However, I also “understand” why those errors may have been made.

    I am also one that agrees with those who say the Lauterbach family should have been in NC earlier. Not that it would have made any difference in the outcome (Maria and Gabriel’s murder) since, according to LE, Maria and her baby were dead on Dec 14 (definitely by Dec 16, IMO – I am not sure how they came up with that time of death unless there is some evidence we have not been made privy to, which hopefully there is a lot of evidence that we are not aware of or this case will really be perplexing).

    What I don’t get is why people are so trusting of “institutions”, whether it be the MC, NCIS, LE, or any organization, for that matter. Or any person, for that matter. Organizations have spokespersons who are very good at what they do. People naturally protect their own interests.

    So I am with R356 – we need to see all the evidence. For instance, we have no idea why Maria was at the Laurean house or how she got there. The only thing we know is that Maria and Cesar had some kind of contact before she was at his house. We have no idea who made that contact, whether it was coerced or not, why the baby clothing was in the firepit, or how she came to be at his house.

    Comment by walker — August 7, 2008 @ 9:06 pm

  367. Turkey lips asked about the brow beating. That is the point Mastiff.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 7, 2008 @ 9:06 pm

  368. Walker I agree with you,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 9:11 pm

  369. Ahhh the baby clothing in the pit. That has dumbfounded me Walker.

    Comment by Nehi — August 7, 2008 @ 9:12 pm

  370. Again Why so nasty, The conversation is resonable

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 9:12 pm

  371. Nasty? Whos’ being nasty?

    Comment by Nehi — August 7, 2008 @ 9:14 pm

  372. Nothing nasty, just calling it how I see it.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 7, 2008 @ 9:14 pm

  373. Nehi , Calling Mary a Brow Beater is Nasty

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 7, 2008 @ 9:25 pm

  374. Brow beating was used as a verb not an adjective.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 7, 2008 @ 9:30 pm

  375. Here is a scenario:

    Maria and Cesar had a short fling. They even had sex once. Then, Maria checked him out and found out he was married. One night, a couple of weeks later, they were both working night duty and Cesar tried to have sex with Maria. He took her back into his office, saying everything would be okay. He started to have sex with her (okay, I agree, this part gets a little hokie). She said no. At some point – we don’t know if immediately or say 5-10 minutes later, he stopped.

    Fast forward 2 weeks. No period. Fast forward 2 more weeks. Still no period. Maria calls her mom. The next day, Maria reports a rape. This is roughly May 10 or 11.

    Maria is given a pregnancy test – we have not been informed what kind of test was used that I am aware of. Test result: negative.

    Six weeks later, roughly, Maria reports to sick bay, is sent for another pregnancy test. Again, we have not been informed what kind of test was used that I am aware of. Test result: positive. Estimated date of conception: May 14.

    So,either Maria had sex with someone right after reporting the rape (that day or a day or two later), or the estimated date of conception was off. We all know that estimated dates of conception are just that… estimates. So who knows on that front.

    Later, in the fall, Maria says that Cesar is not the father of the baby, but is still pursuing the rape allegations. Okay, that makes no sense. If Cesar is not even the father of the baby, then she has no case at all!!! Why would Maria still pursue the rape allegations? And why would the NCIS still want to examine the baby’s DNA? Something is whacky in this case…..

    Comment by walker — August 7, 2008 @ 9:32 pm

  376. One other comment. As far as we know, there are no DNA results with regards to paternity. Ciccarrelli said they were waiting for CL’s return to get his DNA. So any opinion as to who the father is, at this point, just opinion.

    Comment by walker — August 7, 2008 @ 9:38 pm

  377. OK Walker now we have something interesting to talk about figures, I have to leave for work LOL, I’ll log or try to earlier. BTW are the events you outlined established facts & if so I agree somethings Hokie.

    Why was she (maria so insistant if the rape allegation was untrue) Interesting, I’m gonna be late, CYA all tomorrow

    Comment by DancingTurkeyLips — August 7, 2008 @ 9:51 pm

  378. One last thing, Anonymous
    Get a grip the statment of brow beating by Mary was made,

    Your just twisting & spinning ” a verb not an adjective” trying to be cute, are you truely unable understand the point or are you __________. (let see if you can fill in the blank)

    Comment by DancingTurkeyLips — August 7, 2008 @ 9:59 pm

  379. First of all the Probable Cause Affidavit does not say that the USMC gave the OCSO that imformation. It specifically states
    ”Information from the NCIS revealed that Lautherbach was identified as pregnant in the months following the rape….\”

    So we see that NCIS gave this information. Just as I posted above the USMC has only given out information on this case at their Press Conference on 1-15-08.

    FYI

    The USMC does NOT investigate crimes. In this case LCpl Lauterbach reported her allegations to her command. After getting the basic facts from her, she was assigned a UVA who took her immediately to NCIS so she could make a formal complaint. NCIS opened up their investigation the same day she reported to her command.

    NCIS or Naval Criminal Investigativ Service is NOT the USMC. NCIS investigates all crimes that are committed against or committed by Sailors and Marines. They are a separate agency from the USMC. They handle the investigation. In this case they opened their investigation and began to interview the victim, the accused and any potential witnesses. They do not even keep the USMC commanders informed of what evidence they have found or how the investigation is progressing. NCIS is a Law Enforcement Agency and it is also the one which cooperates with civilian LE agencies sharing information. They report to Navy JAG.

    Navy JAG-Judge Advocate General-is made up of attorneys who prosecute and defend Sailors and Marines. They receive the investigative information from NCIS and interview those involved and make the decision how if the evidence is strong enough to take the case to a military court. In this case it was JAG that decided whether charges would be filed against Laurean for \”sexual assault\” or against Lauterbach for making a \”false report.\” They would also decide if and when a Article 32 would take place. JAG would also make recommendations to the CO of Lauterbach\’s command as to what their role would be.

    So when you read the probable cause affidavit, you will see that it does NOT say anything at all about the USMC…it specifically says that NCIS gave that information to the OCSO.

    A bit off this topic , but something that you posted that based on what happened to tha Marine that came to the Memorial Service he was ORDERED not to attend the Memorial.

    The Memorial Service was restricted to ONLY the Marines of the CLB-27 and family. So he was given the choice of coming to the Memorial as a member of the family or not coming at all. Only members of the CLB-27 were allowed to attend LCpl Lauterbach\’s Memorial Service.

    And there is a very good reason why the USMC does not want this case discussed….it causes disagreements. Just look at OTC and the way we, who do not even know each other personally, argue over the facts and fallacies in this case. Ane Phew the gossip that abounds. What would this do to the discipline… Things that should not be discussed in the Chow Hall: Sex, Religion and Politics.

    Comment by Lucky Duck — August 7, 2008 @ 10:30 pm

  380. mastiffs you really need to contact ncis or ocsd to get the answers you seem to be seeking. they are the one’s who have the “files with the facts” not posters on a blog.

    Comment by nunya — August 7, 2008 @ 10:37 pm

  381. lucky duck, is this the same marine who was allowed to see an ongoing investigation file ? if so, then he must have a lot of pull to be either a lance corporal or a corporal.

    i know they have a sgt. major of the marine corp so do they have a lance corporal or corporal of the marine corp too?

    Comment by nunya — August 7, 2008 @ 10:45 pm

  382. Yes, the NCIS investigates the rape allegation. Their investigation is of MC members, including chain of command. So, at least some of their results are based on what MC members/commanders say.

    Comment by walker — August 7, 2008 @ 11:04 pm

  383. We have all these spokespersons.. and we have Ed Brown on national TV saying that the NCIS botched things. Then we have Ciccarelli saying that the NCIS did everything to a T. Hmm… something ain’t right…

    Comment by walker — August 7, 2008 @ 11:09 pm

  384. Walker – I’m right with you!

    Lucky Duck – Thank you for your explanation of what the different entities are responsible for. I think most of us kind of get that, but sometimes we get a little mixed up. For simplification, I see MC, NCIS, and JAG as the military and the concerns I have are about the military investigation and not any one of these entities in particular. However, I feel that between all those entities are cracks for things to fall through and areas for potential miscommunications, etc. It just seems possible and the official lines seem a little too pat for me. I also don’t believe that you’ll normally see any of these entities “crap” on each other in the public eye, even if something is a little askew.

    I’m also bothered by the inference that runs here alot that if there was no eveidence that Maria was raped by Cesar, then her allegations must be false. After all, Maria was a liar. I would hope that our system would require as much evidence to prove a claim is false as it would to prove it positive.

    Comment by R356 — August 8, 2008 @ 7:36 am

  385. If I am required to get a grip as Turkey suggests, then a certain fowl and canine need to join me.

    Mary wasn’t being nasty when she publicly stated that her daughter was a compulsive liar and bipolar. If I said the same thing about Maria, Turkey and Mastisff using their flawed logic would jump all over me saying I was nasty , victim bashing and incorrectly conclude that I sided with Cesar.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 8, 2008 @ 8:09 am

  386. I don’t understand how people think that there is a way to prove the rape claim as true or false. There was no evidence since the alleged rape was not reported in a timely manner and only hear say. I agree that the Article 32 hearing was to catch one or both of them in some kind of lie that could be corroborated. Especially if the intel that NCIS or the USMCS had about them being friendly with each other was true. I can hardly imagine being friendly with someone who raped me. Maybe that is what Maria meant when she told her mother that the case was going bad (paraphrasing). In their last meeting could NCIS have told Maria that they had solid evidence that unequivocally showed that Maria and Cesar were friendly and seen out and about with each other. This could be why Maria decided to leave.

    It is plausible that she have gone to Cesar’s house to tell him that she was leaving for this reason, they got into a heated discussion about the whole scenario. Cesar may have reached a breaking point, especially if he was being falsely accused, and the murder happened as a result of uncontrolled fury. Maybe he was obsessed with her. This is feasible especially after the statement that he made when he was caught in Mexico about “I love her” .

    I do not think that Maria was singled out as a victim by Cesar because she had a history of lying. I believe that is far reaching. More and more, I tend to think that he had a little fatal attraction going on.

    Comment by KH — August 8, 2008 @ 8:44 am

  387. [quote] We have all these spokespersons.. and we have Ed Brown on national TV saying that the NCIS botched things. [quote]

    Walker, please point me in the right direction as to where the info in your quote can be verified/found. Seems I may have missed something.

    Comment by Nehi — August 8, 2008 @ 8:58 am

  388. I don’t think Capt. Sutherland has posted here and I don’t think he’ll mind if I sum up what he said on this question when I emailed him. I asked him if he could clarify anything about this whole due date stuff. He said that they got their info on due dates based off of 2 things-the first being NCIS and interviews they helped to conduct and the second was the medical records they obtained through court process. However, because they have to protect those medical records, they are not allowed to release what was discovered. But he said based on what they found, they have no reason to believe the military lied.

    So, I guess it is possible for detectives to gain access to medical records but they have to go through the court system and not just barge and demand her records. I don’t know if NCIS could have done the same as OCSD did or not. But still, medical records are protected and they can’t release what was found so I guess that won’t be used in court

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:44 am

  389. Ann-

    There are exceptions detailed for HIPAA.

    http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacysummary.pdf

    Comment by KH — August 8, 2008 @ 9:49 am

  390. Thanks for the link!

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:59 am

  391. KH – you make good points, however, NCIS agent Ciccarelli made the statement in one of the first press conferences, I believe on January 10 or 11, that they had just that day discovered communication between Maria and Cesar. I don’t remember if he characterized it as friendly or not. That would be an odd statement if they had that evidence earlier and were using it in an attempt to back someone into a corner. If that tactic was being used (by any of the authorities), perhaps it backfired with horrible consequences. Just thinking.

    Comment by R356 — August 8, 2008 @ 11:02 am

  392. Thanks Ann, that info is def helpful. Like I have said many times before, there are many, many puzzle pieces to this case that are missing, and hopefully when the case comes to trial, we will all be able to fill in the pieces. My questions all revolve around what Maria did after she went to her ATM at Piney Green Shopping Center on Dec 14th. Was she in contact with Cesar before and after that? Were they arguing? Why a bus ticket to El Paso? And then why did she end up at Cesar’s house? And, why was she selling her car? As far as the rape charges go, I am not even going to remotely try and guess what was going on with Maria and Cesar during that time period. Maria’s story differs from Cesars, yet many do agree that they had an affair. I don’t see how an admin clerk did not know that someone she worked with was married. Instead, I think she either thought he was having marriage problems, or didn’t care either way. That’s why I keep asking where Christina works on base. If she worked close to Cesar, there is no way she did not stop by for lunch, etc.

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 8, 2008 @ 11:10 am

  393. Ann – that is, indeed, a great job of getting the “poop”. In a nutshell, though, we don’t really have a solid on the conception and due dates. I really don’t believe anyone was or has been lying, more likely just lost in the confusion.

    Can the anti-spam word “wine” be changed to “whine”? LOL!!!

    Comment by R356 — August 8, 2008 @ 11:45 am

  394. Nehi – I don’t have a link, but it was on one of the talk shows the sheriff appeared on in the first few days after Maria’s body was found.

    Comment by walker — August 8, 2008 @ 1:24 pm

  395. Lucky Duck, Concerning”The Memorial Service was restricted to ONLY the Marines of the CLB-27 and family. So he was given the choice of coming to the Memorial as a member of the family or not coming at all. Only members of the CLB-27 were allowed to attend LCpl Lauterbach\’s Memorial Service. ”

    That was the order and you are certain….. OUCH

    The Marine inquestion at Memorial Service,,, He was a family member flown in to serve as Honor Guard,,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 4:08 pm

  396. The Ouch is ,,, he sould not have been excluded

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 4:09 pm

  397. I really appreciate all the insight here… I did not think it was a good Idea to go before congress,,, even though I was upset to see the way family members were treated etc….But figured it was a few Marines concerned that their judgment on Cesar (not being a threat and being stellar) their poor judgment (with cause) might cost them their jobs (they kind of found themselves in the same position as Maria and Cesar, Article 32 etc…)
    Now that I am reading how the Marines are suppose to work,,,, I really think Mary is doing the right thing…. …. A lot went wrong here….
    They can not get their information straight and they were almost ready for a trial ,,,,YIKES!!!!!!
    I will be following this more closely

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 4:19 pm

  398. Ann, what I read you say is that they, would present evidence at trial that they had no ability to prove or disprove?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 4:22 pm

  399. No clue what you mean mastiff’s by your last post…please clarify.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 5:57 pm

  400. My complaint is simple…how can Mary cast blame on the Marines when she did not support her daughter in the most basic emotional ways. She did not believe the allegations. Mary also called her daughter a compulsive liar to the authorities. Mary did not want Maria to keep the baby. She just sounds hypocritical. I think it is easier for her to blame others for mistakes and not confront her own issues with Maria.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 8:04 pm

  401. It is funny how we forget, Mary has been very upfront, never tried to paint a picture of a perfect daughter, never made up stories like “the Marines were lying when they talk about the petty cash”, so many people seem so angry with her for spitting out her thoughts when asked to defend her Perceived Private Letter that she wrote to the Police, Her story actually defended the Marines, Mary is saying what the Military is saying, They simply did not believe Maria
    I see Mary and the Marines in agreement. However there is a difference in their response.
    Mary encouraged the rape report, The Marines use Maria past not to believe her. If Mary understood that her daughters flawed record would be used to put pressure on her. Maybe Mary would not have encouraged the reporting. It was a no win situation for Maria

    Comment by don'tknow — August 8, 2008 @ 8:49 pm

  402. How did Mary encourage the rape report and help protect her daughter when she did not believe it occured?

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 8:52 pm

  403. Benefit of the doubt, I don’t know what Mary thought , but her action say deep down she did believe her

    Comment by don'tknow — August 8, 2008 @ 8:55 pm

  404. Ann, Sorry LOL on me,,,,what I am understanding you to say is, the NSIC would present evidence at trial that they had no ability to prove or disprove?
    I do understand, if Medical Records are not evidence then HHIPA would go into affect.
    But you can not use Medical records as evidence and keep them private….
    I am shocked that even here ,, we know they were preparing for trial and they had not yet got all their duckeys in a row,,, why would there have been any conclusion…
    I personally think they knew exactly what they were doing

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:02 pm

  405. Mary told investigators that her daughter was a compulsive liar and that she was unsure of the allegations and had her doubts. Maria told her friends that her mother, “did not believe her.”

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:02 pm

  406. Marine4400 I knew Maria also, I get what you are saying, did you belive Maria

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:07 pm

  407. That is interesting Marine4400.

    Comment by KH — August 8, 2008 @ 9:08 pm

  408. I did not know Maria…just very familiar with parts of the case.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:10 pm

  409. Kh Mary does state in the press that she had her doubts, and warned her about hurting Cesar with false allegations, however if it was true she needed to report it… To me , if my child had made up a couple of stories before, I would have done the same thing,, I would be straight forward and honest

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:12 pm

  410. She actually told investigators she was a “compulsive liar” and that she did not believe her daughter. I think that hurts the case and the ability for the Marines to take protective when the facts seem to show that the story is false. The issues with the baby not being CL’s just make things even harder for the Marines to believe Maria’s allegation.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:16 pm

  411. Mastiff’s, I relayed what Capt. Sutherland said to me in regards to Maria’s due date. Local authorities went through the court process to obtain Maria’s medical records. He said that because they have to protect her medical records, they can’t disclose what they found. I didn’t say anything about NCIS except for what Capt. Sutherland relayed to me. Capt. Sutherland and detectives based Maria’s due date on 2 different factors-1 being talking to NCIS and conducting interviews and 2 being Maria’s medical records. And he said based on what they found, they don’t believe the military lied about anything regarding Maria’s due date. I don’t know what NCIS did to confirm Maria’s due date. Again, as Nehi and I tried explaining to you last night, Marines/Sailors are given official documentation from their OB’s to turn into their commands.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:17 pm

  412. Ann is correct…medical records confirm the due date in Feb and conception in May….mid May

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:19 pm

  413. Those things have nothing to do with the case, that happened after the murder. I think the report tells us what Mary was telling the police she wanted the police to find her daughter,,, I think Mary knew if she told the whole story the police would have a better chance of finding Maria if she was alive

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:21 pm

  414. Marine4400 How do you know that

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:22 pm

  415. Mary claims that she felt that something wasn’t right all along and she says that she voiced that concern from day 1. So, did that go into the 3 page email she sent?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:23 pm

  416. Ann, Absolutely, that is what she was explaining, Mary states (according to the police summary) that Maria was stresses and here is the is why,,,, Mary is saying I can not do this anymore but denying being afraid,, she brought up the ling to explain how Maria acted under stress,,,, so the cobs would have a better lead etc…

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:27 pm

  417. So, then why didn’t the local LE do more if Mary voiced that concern from day 1?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:29 pm

  418. Ann they did, read the report

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:30 pm

  419. My opinion on that is because of the note that was in Maria’s handwriting that Durham found and turned in and probably based on them talking to Durham, they felt that Maria did leave on her own. And if an adult willingly leaves on their own and dont’ want to be found…then the authorities can’t do anything about that.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:31 pm

  420. I just know:)

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:31 pm

  421. Ann…do you work for the paper?

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:32 pm

  422. Local LE didn’t really do anything…..they looked for her car, called local hospitals, put her into the database…but they didn’t go above and beyond. I’ve read the report plenty of times. And I don’t ever recall the report saying anything about how Mary stressed that she suspected foul play.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:33 pm

  423. No, I don’t Marine4400…why do you ask?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:33 pm

  424. Marine4400 I hope your wrong, because I hate to think the Marines played a cat and mouse game with Maria and Cesar YUK!!!!!!

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:33 pm

  425. Ann who traced the ATM, who found the car, who faught for the Marine Cooperation
    Look again

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:35 pm

  426. Just curious Ann. You seem to have LE contacts and are familiar with the case.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:36 pm

  427. cat and mouse game??

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:36 pm

  428. They did their job…what I am saying is they didn’t go above and beyond. The first time I ever saw Maria’s picture on local television was in January. Why wasn’t it out in the news before that? Never once did I see a missing person’s flyer out anywhere.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:36 pm

  429. ANN< LOL on nothing saying Mary thought Fowl Play,,,, this is getting dumb again..That is why she made the report

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:37 pm

  430. It would have been hard to do anything with so many conflicting reports by the victim and no way to know the truth. As rough as it may sound….remember the “boy who cried wolfe” story?

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:38 pm

  431. Marine4400…I have followed this very closely from day 1. I have talked to people about stuff that isn’t out in public, I have read so many articles, watched video’s. The day they announced Maria was dead and buried, my heart broke and I called my husband at work in tears. I have cried so many times to know that Marines don’t do this to each other. We are supposed to take care of each other and not kill each other. I never met Maria but she was my “sister”.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:38 pm

  432. Well I am as familiar with this case as about anyone can be. You seem to have alot of good info….however I dont read this blog often.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:40 pm

  433. Marine4400, They state , last report in Jan to Onslow county , So Long After the death….That they were going to use the DNA in the rape trial,,,, if it could not have been the rape,, then they were playing a game with Cesar and Maria …. that is just wrong

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 9:42 pm

  434. She made the report because the Marine’s couldn’t do anything about it. The only way for something to be done is to file an MPR. You say it’s getting dumb…that’s on you. I’m stating my opinion. I don’t know if Mary told local authorities that she suspected foul play. All I know is if my child was missing and I suspected foul play, I would have been where they were at in a heartbeat. Again, nothing was in the media about this until the week before the body was found. Why is that? If you realize with the Marine couple from Cali…the same day they filed their MPR it was national news and APB put out for the girls car. Why wasn’t it done in Maria’s case? There was no mention of Maria, no picture on tv, nothing about her on local news stations until January.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:42 pm

  435. Marine…I check in a couple different times a day. It’s a good blog and people have good opinions here. But sometimes it gets repetitive and it’s like banging your head into a brick wall ya know?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:44 pm

  436. Anyways, I’m out for the night…everyone have a blessed night!

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 8, 2008 @ 9:45 pm

  437. I think you have the statement out of context….no one was playing games. If the DNA matched Laurean then it was going to be an issue. First, he claimed no sexual contact and a positive match would have many issues. Also, a negative match would have implications for Maria considering the statements she made. I find it interesting that she purposely lied about a due date she knew to be false. This false due date just happened to match the claim that CL was the father of of the baby and the due date that would be needed for that date to be valid.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 8, 2008 @ 9:48 pm

  438. Marine4400 I do understand, I am just stating that the Marines , were communicating to Cesar and Maria that they were going to use the DNA in the rape case,,, view Graftin on Dateline, etc…..

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 10:22 pm

  439. It is amazing to me that we have no information as to the status of this case. No DNA results (the official line is they are waiting for CL to be extradited), CL’s lawyer apparently doesn’t know anything about the case or whether CL is fighting extradition.

    I continue to assert that something is off in this case, and I fear the authorities (both local LE and NCIS/MC) just want it to go away.

    Comment by walker — August 8, 2008 @ 10:24 pm

  440. Marine400 also read http://portal.jdnews.com/lauterbach/ It states the date was in close prox to the rape
    So if the Marines knew the date was in May for sure,,,, Why would they being doing that

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 10:31 pm

  441. Walter, I agree. and it is a shame I almost feel Cesar hopes that also

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 10:33 pm

  442. Dear Mary, Vic and family
    I am so very sorry for your loss. My prayers are with you.

    I can still see Maria toddling through the airport to go back to Dayton with you. She was so happy. Aunt Clara is watching over her now.
    Diana LeVan (Bradenton, FL)

    Comment by Interesting find — August 8, 2008 @ 11:01 pm

  443. Interesting find
    Hello You knew Clara so did I
    Thank you this is what should be happeneing You said it all

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 11:27 pm

  444. Diana LeVan
    Are you who I think you are? I am very close to Mary ,Millie, Dick. Ed. Bob. and I loved Frances dearly

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 8, 2008 @ 11:29 pm

  445. Diana
    Did you know Maria’s mother?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 9, 2008 @ 8:39 am

  446. I dont have to read the paper results…I have seen the medical reports firsthand

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 9, 2008 @ 11:21 am

  447. Walker,

    As far as I know, there is nothing wrong in this case. However, waiting for Mexico to give CL back is going to take a while. That is the main hold up. His defense attorney is not going to know alot becuase he is still in Mexico. It is not good to talk alot on the phone when you can’t be assured of privacy. However, I think the case against CL is strong.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 9, 2008 @ 11:25 am

  448. Marine400 I believe you, I think your date is correct. but the Marines were using that information in the rape case….. WHY, if it was not possible for the conception to be a result of the rape…. Why would the Marines say the date was in Close proximity and they were going to use the dna in the rape trial,,, Why would they not just charge Cesar for lying under oath….
    In a civilian court, if the Baby could not be the result of the rape that evidence would be thrown out… and if they wanted to bring someone up on charges , lying under oath , then that would be a seperate case,,,, STRAIGHT FORWARD, If you are so close to the case there in Lejuene , can you help with those answers

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 9, 2008 @ 11:33 am

  449. Marine400 I thought about my question and I will retract it ,,,
    Just a word of advise from an old Lady, Be careful on what you tell us…. There is a ton of stuff I know for a fact, but LOOK and LOOK for press evidence before I speak. If you are currently a Marine. You might find yourself in a bad position, just because you have a need to solve some misconceptions here,,, Be Care Full. This case is emotional etc… but do not let us talk you out of you honor of confidentiality. The Marines might actually want the rape and conception case to never be tried. If that happened , this info will never be public

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 9, 2008 @ 12:12 pm

  450. Honestly i think they wanted to be 100 percent sure. I think the DNA evidence would have helped answer two questions.

    1. Was CL lying
    2. Was Maria lying

    Still, DNA would not have completely answered either of these issues. However, the fact that Maria gave out incorrect due dates to others, that these incorrect due dates supported the rape claim, is suspicious.

    Regardless of any possible wrongs commited by Maria, such as lying or stealing, there is no excuse for what happened to her. I want this to be very clear. I think that CL is scum. I think he deserves to be on prison. The innocent child being killed makes my blood boil.

    My issue is the negative press and comments by Mary towards the military. This must be a horrible thing for a mother to go through. However, it is not an excuse to say incorrect and hurtful things about others.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 9, 2008 @ 12:18 pm

  451. Marine400
    As far as conception date I have argued it, because I felt that the Marines did not misrepresent themselves,,, so I figured the date changed etc….A lot of times it does…. But now that you , Ann and Nehl have convinced me the Conception date was probably May 14th, In my mind the Marines really screwed up , they should have thrown out the evidence in the rape trial.
    I had original given the Marines the benefit of the doubt,,,, but now I question the Marines method and in turn it validates Mary Case But more so gives us insight to the No Win Situation Maria was in
    I know you think CL is Scum,, but there is a different side to Mary’s story and if you knew her,, you could see that. I am sure Maria was hurt, A lot of kids do get hurt by thier parents.
    But there is also somthing reasonable about what is going on

    I do want to hear more of your point of view,, But look fpr press to back it up LOL (even though they are wrong a lot of the times,,, you will be vindicated in the end)

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 9, 2008 @ 12:28 pm

  452. I am no longer in the Marines…I recently left the service honorably. My access to the info was related to the my job in the Marines. This is purely opinion based upon my memory…however my memory is very good and the basic facts are there. I have no doubt these issues will come out during trial. People think there is a conspiracy when one simply does not exist. I still have contact with people that did the investigation and internal reporting. The only thing we need is CL here in the U.S.

    There are many reasons why information is not being released. None of the reasons are to hide or cover up. The ultimate goal is justice for Lauterbach.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 9, 2008 @ 12:28 pm

  453. Marine 400 I am so glad to hear that you are no longer an active Marine,,,I think of my boy and he will leaving in April,,, so i am very carefull, I do not think a conspiicy, however I do think mistakes were made…. If you were involved in the investigation you might have met my son.. The Cousin that was at Camp Lejuene

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 9, 2008 @ 12:33 pm

  454. The Marines had to investigate and consider a variety of questions. Some of these are very politically incorrect now that Maria died in such a horrible manner. The Marines had to investigate the rape. The DNA had to be evaluated. If this was not done then people would have questioned them not doing it. Here we question the doing it. These blogs and the scrutiny they show prove why the Marines still chose to not make a definate conclusion till ALL the evidence was evaluated.

    Other charges considered were against Maria for filing a false statement. CL for adultery and conduct unbecomming an NCO. Once the murder occured these issues were small compared to the problems at hand.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 9, 2008 @ 12:35 pm

  455. I think the crime was far more violent than the press has revealed, any thoughts

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 9, 2008 @ 12:41 pm

  456. Marine4000, If the Marines were going to use irrelivant evidence in the rape triel, both Cesar and Maria were in a NO WIN situation.
    If they through out the evidence and went only relivent evidence then they both stood a chance of making a far case

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 9, 2008 @ 12:44 pm

  457. You are completely misreading what i wrote. They were completely investigating all aspects. Try and read carefully and not jump to a negative conclusion.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 9, 2008 @ 12:52 pm

  458. What I am saying is the DNA is Irrelevant to the rape if the dates do not Match………I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, but You can tell me the Marines have a reason for what they did and I would agree, ,,, Maria should not have been tried for a false report until after the trial.. that’s just wrong, Cesar was a threat to Maria,, The way it sounds is that the marines were going to combined the 2 trials, Did Maria have legal council that was representing her in this case (not the advocate) Legal Council and think about this,,, If the trial was going to use the DNA and Maria was saying it is probably someone else,,, what is the DNA evidence for? It is not legitimate evidence for the rape it nether proves nor disproves anything accept Cesar Lying about sex,,, and only if the baby was his,,, if the baby was not his it proves nothing,,,,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 9, 2008 @ 1:09 pm

  459. Marine400, Maybe you don’t see what I see, Victim says the baby is not evidence Medical says the Baby is not evidence, for a fair trial, DNA should not be used in the rape trial,,, unless they are mixing the 2 trials which prevents a fair trial, for both parties….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 9, 2008 @ 1:26 pm

  460. I simply said they were looking at all leads. I never once said they planned on taking Maria to trial. As an investigator you must not assume. You must look at all elements. This idea of combination of trials is not valid. Investigators are not attorneys. They do not decide what is used in trial. They simply gather all the evidence possible and let the prosecutors decide what is relevent. It is hard for people that dont work in the system to seperate the different jobs, and it is understandable that so much confusion exists.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 9, 2008 @ 2:39 pm

  461. As for the victim saying the baby is not evidence, it was Maria that manipulated the due dates. Again, I think what happened to her was aweful, but the lies and dishonesty hurt alot of poeple – including Maria. I am simply advocating for the hard working Marines that were put in a nearly impossible situation.

    Marines HATE sexual predators. I can promise you that if it was found out that CL did rape Maria, everything possible would have been done to bring a heavy hand of justice down on CL.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 9, 2008 @ 2:44 pm

  462. The victim-Maria-first reported the baby was Cesar’s. Do you think that investigators were just going to let that go after she changed her statement to say that she was with someone else? But there really is no point in discussing it with you anymore Mastiff’s…noone here is going to be able to get you to see anything else. You will see what you want to see and nothing else.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 9, 2008 @ 4:08 pm

  463. Ann and Marine4000 I agree to disagree, Just for the record I do understand that the marines are saying Maria manipulated the dates.
    However Pregnancy is not evidence of rapes nor does the conception date mean she was or was not raped , it only says the pregnancy is not longer evidence. (any charge against maria would be separate from the rape allegations)
    I my mind , if there was not enough evidence to pursue rape, then they drop that case… open another case (Military states On Date Line and to Onslow County they were pursuing the rape and going to use the DNA to prove or disprove) , instead on a straight forward approach. Both Maria and Cesar were then being set up for a NO Win Case… Why not give Maria has a chance to argue the direct charge of why she said the baby was a product of rape
    Cesar should be given a chance to argue (if the child was his) why he said he never has sex with her..
    Now look at Mary’s case The common denominator says and“ she finds herself treated as the guilty party, not the victim. “ Just like you say the investigation was heading.
    No rape victim can win a case, nor can the defendant win a case if they use irrelevant evidence.
    I state again case (Military states On Date Line and to Onslow County they were pursuing the rape and going to use the DNA to prove or disprove)

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 9, 2008 @ 8:41 pm

  464. The DNA from the baby is relevent when the “victim” claims the baby is a result of the rape. Especially when those dates are manipulated to make the pregnancy fit the rape dates. It shows deceit and discredits the witness.

    You cannot take every weak case to trial. That is why we have grand juries in the civilian world and article 32 hearings in the military. The courts would become clogged and way over burdened. Moreover, innocent people do not deserve to be dragged through an expensive trial when the evidence does not support the charges….remember Nifong and the Duke rape case?

    I honestly think that the rape charge was completely false and a good motive for CL to snap and kill Maria. Not that I think in any way it excuses his actions. But, one must understand the entire situation and causes before blame is cast upon others. The whole point of my comments concerns the actions of the Marines.

    What more should a military leader have done when confronted with charges that seemed weak at best and most likely a bunch of BS?

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 10, 2008 @ 3:04 am

  465. Ms. LeVan probably knows Maria’s mother (Sheila) , since she knew Maria’s Great Grandmother Clara Marie Nemec Smalley in Bradenton, FL (which by the way is the birthplace listed for Maria on her death certificate). Look on the Manatee County Court Records and you will find a Sheila Snodgrass there in the late 80′s and her maiden name, on a marriage certificate, since you couldn’t remember it Mastiff.

    Comment by I bet — August 10, 2008 @ 7:22 am

  466. not enough evidence in the rape, charges should be dropped, If other charges are appropriate then new case should be opened,,, Combined the 2 then neither Cesar nor Maria can have a fair trial .
    Did Maria have an attorney or did she think the prosecutor was defending her?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 8:27 am

  467. Marine400: FYI, . Even though the dialogue here has given me insight to the case concerning the Marines vs Lauterbach’s,,,,and you and I disagree on perceived fair trials etc….. We count very little, Neither of us will be on a jury, nor are we in a situation to sway a jury member.

    Let agree to disagree

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 8:48 am

  468. We can agree to disagree….however you keep talking about 2 cases being combined and they never were.

    Prosecutors do not defend they prosecute. There were not any charges ever against Maria. It was just discussed among investigators that if further evidence of lying on her part arose, it may be proper to recommend they be forwarded for possible charges after the initial charges of rape were dismissed. This would only happen if the rape case was dismissed and concrete evidence showed Maria lies about a material fact in the case.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 10, 2008 @ 11:13 am

  469. Marine 4400 – This is exactly what I suspect happened. She was afraid of being caught in lies and future charges brought against her, thus the reason she decided to write the note, buy the bus ticket and why she told her mother the investigation was going bad.

    I still contendthat the destination of the bus ticket MAY have had something to do with the paternity of the father and possibly his home of record.

    DISCLAIMER: I am not pro Cesar because I think this or being aggressive towards Maria. I’m just trying to explore the case and speculating.

    Comment by KH — August 10, 2008 @ 12:20 pm

  470. above post should say “paterniy of the baby’s father” in the above post.

    Comment by KH — August 10, 2008 @ 12:21 pm

  471. Marine400: on your statement “however you keep talking about 2 cases being combined and they never were. ” and Concerning your statement “As for the victim saying the baby is not evidence, it was Maria that manipulated the due dates” You also state the Military confirms the conception date May 14th etc…
    If the Conception date is May 14th,,, Grafton confirms that Maria’s agrees that the pregnancy is not part of the rape at her next meeting with the investigators …. And the Military confirms the baby is irrelevant to the case,,, But in Jan they still want the DNA for the rape case…. HUM!!!!!! We both agree that the DNA is to prove or disprove Maria and Cesar affair…. Nothing to do with rape…..But I think the Military was using the rape to get the DNA (Ann points to the HHIP Laws)The Military has no right to the DNA unless they keep it as evidence in the rape trial… This alone prevents a Fair Rape trial… Fair defense for Cesar and a Fair voice for Maria ,,, Now read ALL the examples in the cases before congress,,,, The Victim becomes the accused is the spirit of that trial,,,, I get it

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 12:36 pm

  472. KH, you do not sound pro Cesar and your statement “She was afraid of being caught in lies and future charges brought against her” I am sure of that. I am not confident she was leaving of her own free will at the time . Not enough personal items packed etc…
    She did have 20 boxes sent home with alot of memorabilia ,,, ,,, stuff she would not have left behind… and the Military and Onslow county are real quite concerning the forensics on the hand writing,,,, My Jury is still out on that

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 12:45 pm

  473. Mastiffs,

    There is nothing I could say that will change your opinion that a conspiracy and unfairness was rampant. The military planning on testing the DNA would have answered questions….that does not mean it would have been used in trial. It may have been part of a pre-trial investigation or art. 32 hearing….but that is not a trial. It is simply a search for the truth. If the military REFUSED to test the DNA even more people would be crying foul. Some people just want to believe the worst.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 10, 2008 @ 1:15 pm

  474. Marine4400, very well said.

    Comment by Nehi — August 10, 2008 @ 2:11 pm

  475. Marine400 It is funny you say that, My son would say, They are Marines and Public Opinion does not count, we do what we need to. And if we Fxxx UP we correct it…. We Are Marines. I asked him how much of my experience with the Marines was it okay to share,,, He said Mom as a Marine I have no right to ask anything of you. You have all the right in the world to speak of your experience, and if it does not make us look good then that’s our problem….I have a copy of the official report. About 20 pages long. However I have never talks about these experiences on this blog.
    I came here defending the Marines saying I thought the confusion was a mix-up, and bad judgment on Cesar Character by a few people and this did not represent the Marines as a whole…….several of you here have changed my mind….but I repeat it really does not matter, I will not be a jury member. And I still trust at the end of the day the Marines will be able to tell us how bad Maria was and How they were right to think Cesar was not a threat,,,, and I will be saying the same thing “the Military has no special info in their records about the day or motive of the murder,,, because their judgment on Cesar was Flawed,,, their conclusions are wrong… But we can see how they were putting pressure on Cesar via an affair and how Cesar did not feel he would get a good shack in court concerning the rape…

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 2:13 pm

  476. What confusion?? The only confusion was caused by Maria lying. I guess the Marines are to blame for her lies?

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 10, 2008 @ 2:32 pm

  477. It is horrible what happened to Maria. But, if one takes an honest look at what happened, it must be considered that her actions may have been a major factor in her being murdered. It is not politically correct to say these things. However, she lied about many things. If she was lying about the rape, then she was threatening a Marines life, family and freedom. These are the most important things to a person and could easily cuase CL to snap.

    Again, I am not saying CL was right or anything less than a scumbag, but people must learn, especially young adults, that lying and putting yourself in these situations is dangerous.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 10, 2008 @ 2:48 pm

  478. I am sure his attorny will use self defense, but the truth is there are many other things to consider, Cesar was a cold blooded killer, the evidence shows a man that could murder, cook on top of the body, and go to work with no emotional upset… this man is calculated not impulsive..
    The presure according to you, was the Military no evidence to prceed in the rape trial and Cesar would have been aquited…. Calculate that into your defense for cesar

    Comment by girdyb — August 10, 2008 @ 2:55 pm

  479. Marine4400, Now your not making sense, if there wasn’t enough evidence to convict Cesar and Cesar was only afraid of his affair with Maria being exposed? Whose fault is that, Cesar’s or Maria’s?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 3:01 pm

  480. I dont think a self defense argument will work. The best defense is to argue that he snapped after the pressure from the rape accusation. The goal will be 2nd degree murder.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 10, 2008 @ 3:02 pm

  481. Marine4400, Again….. Now your not making sense, if there wasn’t enough evidence to convict Cesar of rape and Cesar was only afraid of his affair with Maria being exposed? Whose fault is that, Cesar’s or Maria’s?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 3:11 pm

  482. Marine4400. All this from a Marine who gives out Maria’s private medical record info…. Honorable Marines do not do that,,,,, Think about what you say Maria did then think about what you are doing

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 3:26 pm

  483. Now it’s Maries fault that she was murdered, OMFG, cut me a break 2nd Degree Murder would be an outrage

    I haven’t been on in a couple days & sign on hoping you guys would be past the delivery date/DNA & I read Marine4400 last few & the responses & again OMFG

    There are one or two of you that I don’t have a problem with on here, but for the CL Cheerleaders you guys have your heads so far up your bums you wouldn’t believe CL did it even if CL confessed straight to your faces. There is something called common sense that happens to be sorely lacking on this blog and this over-protectionism and justification of this narcosis is an insult to every Marine.

    Furthermore, there are no true Marines anywhere that would defend this Ass “CL” in any manner, shape or form, (they would however gladly deal w/him), but defend him no way. He stands for the exact opposite of what the MC is all about. Defending & fighting for those who can’t do it for themselves is the true essence of the MC. Therefore I have serious doubts/concerning “Marine4400” comments and whether or not he is who he is portraying (not that it matter in any way) but I am extremely close to many, many “Marines” and to date this “Marine4400” is the first and only supposed Marine to ever take CL’s banner and start marching with it and attempt to excuse away this Ass’s cold blooded PREMEDITATED Murder. To imply he cracked under the pressure of being accused of raping ML, is a joke Marines are trained to exist comfortably & thrive under stress and anyone that doesn’t understand that aspect of being a Marine again is not a Marine.

    I am so angry right now, maybe this site is not the place for me, (I apologize to those I have inadvertently offended)

    Comment by DancingTurkeyLips — August 10, 2008 @ 3:34 pm

  484. DancingTukek:” He stands for the exact opposite of what the MC is all about. Defending & fighting for those who can’t do it for themselves is the true essence of the MC.’
    Total Agreement and the Stellar word used for him degrades all Marines who have reached that honor

    Comment by girdyb — August 10, 2008 @ 4:27 pm

  485. I’d have to say that I believe that the Commandant of the USMC probably believes that public opinion is important and shouldn’t be disregarded. You don’t get up that high in the USMC and not know how to politic and part of politics is dealing with public opinions, proactively when possible vs. reactively.

    Not agreeing with the USMC disregarding public opinion.

    Comment by KH — August 10, 2008 @ 5:12 pm

  486. KH I agree with you on Command especially seeing the way they responded to my son and myself, however, the point being he nor the Marines should back away from truth, Even if their decision is not popular,,,, change the way they do things to win the hearts and minds, gain the respect through truth not deception..

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 5:52 pm

  487. I have no proof the USMC is being purposely deceptive.

    I understand that a lot of things are released on need to know and some aren’t due to privacy act reasons. I suppose that could be be perceived by some as deceptive.

    I am not privy to what transpired between you, your son and the USMC, so there is no way for me to get all sides of that story, so I will stay out of that briar patch.

    Comment by KH — August 10, 2008 @ 6:01 pm

  488. Hi turkeylips, I am most interested in your post. I have wondered about the premeditation factor, especially in light of the barbeque pit situation. Not knowing just what took Maria over to Cesar’s house that day is a kind of “roadblock” for me. Can you share your ideas on the premeditation? TIA

    Comment by justice4all — August 10, 2008 @ 6:46 pm

  489. Kh The stuff above is about what is in the press, and what Marine4400 confirms he has confidential info that he is sharing with us…..
    I was only stating that the USMC mentions in one report that the Conception date was may 14th and then they confirm to Onslow county that the Conception date was close to the rape date (4 to 6 weeks earlier) and Grafton date was different, I thought the date had changed due to an ultrasound and Marine4400 says that the date is and always was May14…. I originally wanted to know why the 2 dates and blamed it on a few human error by the Marines….Marine4400 insist that his confidential info (he had access to Maria records) proves that the DNA was being used for further investigation on the integrity of Cesar and Maria,,,, I suggested that the Marines would have been straight forward, if Maria no longer claimed the baby was a product of rape, and the Marines wanted the DNA they should have opened a new case (not intermingled the 2)

    Marine4400 says they did not do it that way (would not let Maria of the hook for originally stating she thought the child was a product of the rape) because of public opinion….. I disagree…(when all this was going on Maria was still alive) but if they did conduct the case that way, then Mary has a case in Congress,,, the heart of that case is
    “ Rape Case Often turn into Charging the Victim in the Military”
    As far as the way we were treated is was by a Panicked Command, The info we were privy to is more on the murder etc.. To Tell the truth the 20 page MC report created more questions than answers

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 6:50 pm

  490. Why would you have a copy of the official report? If you have it, then why are you here asking questions? You should know what transpired on the day of the murder and after. Funny how you have not ever mentioned that until now….well unless you count the fact that your son-I believe a Cpl (but could be wrong) was able to talk to the forensic people for the military autopsy as well as investigators and he was satisfied. Hmm, very interesting…if not a little fishy. Still don’t see why they would have flown him all the way back from Iraq for a cousin’s funeral being that it’s normally only limited to immediate family members….and sometimes they even dont’ get to come back.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 10, 2008 @ 7:41 pm

  491. Unforutnately, there are many rape allegations that are based on flat out lies. The whole Duke thing is a perfect example. Peoples lives are ruined over this. The wrongly accused are victims.

    It may be that Cesar and Maria were victims of each other. It was a very dangerous situation all the way around. You have an alleged rape, a person with a known propensity to lie therefore not always credible, no rape evidience and a person who obviously either was a cold blooded murderer or a someone with SERIOUS anger control issues. I still think he may have been obsessed with Maria and that isn’t a healthly situation..

    I agree with Marine 4400 that lying is dangerous with potentially serious consequences. Maria found this out the hard way. While a history of lying definitely does not warrant being murdered, it certainly played a BIG part in the whole tragedy.

    I wish we were privy to some of what is going on with Cesar in Mexico.

    Comment by KH — August 10, 2008 @ 7:42 pm

  492. Ann, the son is a distant cousin, not even an immediate cousin.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 10, 2008 @ 7:43 pm

  493. Why are some of you taking what is posted here as bona fide known facts? There are some, to include myself, that have tried to explain what our thoughts were in regards to the rape case, Art. 32 etc. procedures and how we believe this was tied together. Those comments were made by posters that have served in the USMC and most probable have knowledge to the procedures. To denounce a Marines integrity, honor etc. because something was posted that didn’t agree with others imbedded thoughts in that particular area is plain bs. Some of you have picked and chosen what bits and pieces to use from those comments to fit your theory. Yes, theory. I am now sorry that I voiced my opionion and thoughts on this particular issue.

    I have said that I understand what Mary is trying to accomplish in her endeavor. There may be room for improvement that can be implemented by DOD etc. What I don’t agree with is a couple of the changes that she’s pushing to implement, the fact that she has held the rape trial and the murder trial publicly with no judge and jury in place and the fact that she is blaming the Marine Corps for Marias murder. It is her right though to do what she feels like, say what she wants to say and point fingers the way she has. So as long as Mary remains in the spotlight Maria will not rest.

    The USMC did not have to give an account publicly of what they have already given at the press release. I was surprised they did come forward but it really didn’t matter if they released that information or not. Some people would’ve and still see a conspiracy or find fault in the USMC. Maria IMO was not ready to join the ranks of the Marines, her mother probably knew that but I suppose Mary hoped that joining the Marines would be that something Maria may have needed to mature her. I don’t know. It is what it is, Marias rape allegations were most likely false allegations. IMO I think that is what drove this situation into high gear in the end. Maria was murdered by the hands of Cesar, most likely. I beleive that the false rape allegations were what drove this to the brink. Only two known people know the truth, Maria and Cesar. Maria has been taken away so we only have Cesar with the truth. I don’t think we will ever know 100% of the truth. When the time comes to bring Cesar and anyone else involved to justice I hope they are punished severly for taking the life a young woman and child.

    Comment by Nehi — August 10, 2008 @ 8:12 pm

  494. What I would like to see released to balance the rape numbers Mary is putting forth in her agenda are the numbers of proven false allegations that have been made, the numbers of proven rapes and the punishment served to those rapists. I don’t trust the VAs numbers. When the VA can correctly account for their actions and lack thereof then I will consider their numbers.

    Comment by Nehi — August 10, 2008 @ 8:23 pm

  495. Funny that all of you cry evidence I show you the different reports in the press and you ignore them…. what’s that about , the military says different things,,,,I also said that I thought it was human error, maybe ultra sounds changed the dates,,, all these statement are not conspiracy theory,,, until you start telling me it is normal and customary procedure,,,, not human error,,,, well if the different dates are intentional then we have a problem….. You said they were intentional I did not

    Anyways Ann, you say you are close to the case, via hubby, see if a cousin came in from Iraq…” escort “postion says he followed the body , NC to De to OH through the forensic process …
    By the way, some of your assumption on how the Military works , I know 1st hand did not go that way….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

  496. Ann and yes my son said he was satisfied knowing what happened

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

  497. Concering motive, I think you are wrong Nehi. I think he killed her because he lied about an affair and had a concern about the child being his… there was not enough evidence to convict him of rape

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 8:48 pm

  498. I don’t recall Ann saying she was close to the case because of her or her husband’s current employment status. In fact, I believe Ann said he isn’t in the military any more and neither is she. I doubt she or her husband would have any access to find the information, unless maybe she did a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for it.. Hmmm, now tht is an idea :)

    I sure hope the stuff you know that didn’t happen st hand didn’t come from information that Mary told you. She has already proven she isn’t very truthful.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 10, 2008 @ 8:57 pm

  499. You know let her find out ,,,, and Please send the appology asap….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 9:04 pm

  500. Anonymous You keep saying Mary lied, ABOUT WHAT that question you have never answered, you have however told me why you did not like her,, but you have never told me where she lied,,,,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 9:08 pm

  501. Anonymous Better yet call the funeral home in dayton, they know he came in and ran escort…..

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 9:15 pm

  502. It was Westbrock Dayton Ohio

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 9:16 pm

  503. How about the whole 1st grandson thing? How abour her saying that she didn’t call Maria a compulsive liar. Oh yea I forgot that was taken out of context. If you believe that I have some land in Florida and it ain’t in Bradenton.

    I think Maria learned to lie from someone close to her while she grew up and I’m not talking about when she was a toddler living with her natural mother or bi polar father (wonder if he is actually bipolar or if that is a mistruth too) for 19 months.

    All I’m saying is she isn’t credible. If chronic lying is a way the Lauterbachs choose to live then I pray for their other children.

    .

    Comment by Anonymous — August 10, 2008 @ 9:16 pm

  504. Forgot about the Gma thing,,, anyways I find it interesting that you,,, have said nothing about a Marine that says he is giving Confidental info but you guys are all over anyone who does not think all the Marines behavior is perfect YUK! The Marine here defending the Marines was in total violation of a ton of stuff
    Tell you the truth I am finished with this dialogue I will however look for that appology

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 10, 2008 @ 9:21 pm

  505. Don’t hold your breath :)

    Comment by Anonymous — August 10, 2008 @ 9:41 pm

  506. Nope, I never said I got any info from my husband. Matter of fact, I said I called my husband the day they found Maria in tears. I have shed tears numerous times for Maria and her child. My husband and I are no longer in the military but I can tell you that I do know stuff from people that are in and I do know stuff about this case that I have not said on this blog and I don’t intend to. The evidence you say in reports…well how does it feel when I specifically said that Capt. Sutherland stated that they dont’ believe the military lied to them on anything? Can you explain that since you’re so hell bent on saying the military lied? Dont’ believe me, email him yourself and find out. But, you already have a copy of the 20 page report so you should know all this information anyway, right?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 10, 2008 @ 10:04 pm

  507. Mastiffs,

    If you have this 20 page report that your son “got”, have you shared this with your “relative” Mary Lauterbach? Remember one of her biggest complaints is that no one has provided her with any report, especially from NCIS or the Marine Corps. What an injustice YOU are doing by not providing a copy to her!

    Besides if your son actually has this report, then I feel a call to NCIS is in order to inquire 1) why and how your son gained possession of it, 2) why it was given to him, a distant cousin (not an immediate family member) and 3) why this report was allowed to be shown to anyone outside of NCIS and/or the Marine Corps (other than LLE/FBI).

    I don’t think your son has any report. If he did and you’ve seen it, then you certainly wouldn’t be on a blog asking questions now would you? Or do you simply not believe what’s on those printed pages?

    Comment by deb — August 10, 2008 @ 11:11 pm

  508. Or perhaps someone should make a phone call to Mary Lauterbach and ask her if she’s aware that someone claiming to be a relative of hers (on a blog no less) has a copy of THE 20 page report in reference to Maria’s death.

    Comment by deb — August 10, 2008 @ 11:19 pm

  509. Mastiffs—-
    Marine4400 has not revealed anything from Maria’s medical records that was confidential. He has repeatedly stated that he was not defending CL just stating the obvious from what sounds like someone with a legal background. It is very difficult for “normal” people to understand crimes of this nature. In reality, we can not. Not understanding is what separates the normal individual from the criminal. CL is a twisted individual. Maria seems to have had her share of emotional/mental problems. All that aside, CL should answer for his actions but we need to be able to understand to some degree that Maria does not come across as a completely honest. That in no way justifies the terrible act committed against her. It should help the rest of us see how important it is for us to be honest with ourselves and those we care about. Dishonesty and unfaithfullness are a deadly combination.

    Comment by Onslow County Citizen — August 11, 2008 @ 12:11 am

  510. Good post Onslow County Citizen.

    Comment by KH — August 11, 2008 @ 12:15 am

  511. Thanks “Onslow County Citizen”. I can’t count how many times I said CL was a scumbag. THe problem is that average people do not understand how the legal system and related processes work.

    When I mention 2nd degree murder it is not ME defending CL. It is a simple fast of the elements required to be proven beyong a reasonable doubt. I think proving he killed her will not be very tough. This is mainly due to the credability issue with him running to Mexico and the retarded story about her “suicide.” The same credability issue is present with Maria’s rape claim and the evidence pointing to BS. However it will be tough to prove malice and aforethought. It MAY be difficult to convince 12 jurors that there no doubt that CL didn’t snap and kill her without thinking.

    There are other pieces of evidence I have not shared becuase of confidential reasons. However, I have never disclosed anything that was not already disclosed…I simply shared facts that are already known. Moreover, I dedicated years of my life to the Marines. I spent years advocating for victims. I just speak the truth and sometimes it hurts.

    Maria did tell alot of lies and it ended up getting her into a horrible situation. It is not her fault that she was murdered. But, hopefully people can learn a lesson from this. That is the point I was trying to make. Kinda like the boy that cried wolfe. When you do need people confidence and support…if you are known for lying it may not be there. I hope CL spends the rest of his life in prison. The murder of Maria and the unborn child sicken me. But to take your anger and let it obscure important lessons about life, is a waste in itself.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 11, 2008 @ 12:53 am

  512. Mastiffs, we ole devil dogs are always faithful, but we are human. We were all mortfied to find out that Maria/her unborn were murdered, and to cap it all off, by possibly a Marine. We were aggitated by her mother broadcasting to the world, that her missing Marine dau was a liar, with mental issues. That is not faithful, and I don’t care how truthful you say that was, it was a harmful statement. Harmful to the case, harmful to the Corps. She didn’t believe her dau was raped, didn’t believe much of what she told her, or she would have been on the first flight down here, to help her dau out. That is faithful. Maria was a Marine, but she was human, she made some mistakes, and somebody ended her life. Let’s change all of that for her, and start telling the truth.

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 11, 2008 @ 12:56 am

  513. Mastiff,

    So what about these quotes from the Dayton Daily News
    http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html

    Much of into for this newspaper story was given by Mary Lauterbach

    Lauterbach told NCIS that Laurean was the father as the result of the rape. But in a July e-mail to a friend from boot camp, informing her of the pregnancy, she referred to \”an incident,\” but didn\’t use the word rape.

    “Is that (the pregnancy) a good thing or a bad thing?\” asked Marine Lance Cpl. Jessica Riley.

    “Well, I have to wait and see,\” Lauterbach replied.
    http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html

    Meanwhile, her Jan. 15 due date was fast approaching. During an appointment at the Camp Lejeune Naval Hospital on Nov. 26, her obstetrician said her baby weighed more than 6 pounds.

    Ashley Dupuis, 19, a friend from boot camp, called in early December to see how Maria was doing.

    “She was really down and out,” Dupuis recalled. “It was not like her.”

    Maria once loved the Marine Corps so much she had a USMC bulldog tattooed on her upper right arm.

    Now, Dupuis said, “She didn’t like it and she wanted to get out.”

    Mary Lauterbach’s last conversation with her daughter occurred Dec. 14, when Maria called her about 2:30 p.m. at her office at the University of Dayton. Maria felt she needed to make an appearance at a command Christmas party, even though she knew Laurean would be there.

    “Call me when you get home from the party,” her mother said.

    And this quote from Mary
    “Because someone might have perceived credibility issues, that doesn’t mean you can just presume they’re lying,” Mary Lauterbach said. “Think about it. My daughter was a beautiful girl with a beautiful figure and perceived credibility issues. That set her up to be the perfect victim.”

    Comment by Lucky Duck — August 11, 2008 @ 9:57 am

  514. Lucky Duck – That for the synopsis of info.

    Comment by KH — August 11, 2008 @ 12:01 pm

  515. I meant Thanks!!!!

    Comment by KH — August 11, 2008 @ 12:01 pm

  516. Keep in mind Mary did not lie, just because a friend had a different story than Mary, they are 2 different situations, neither lied about there conversations with Maria
    Concerning the 20 page report…You now are saying that The military would not give an official release documents to the family member in NC that is traveling with the body???? WOW that is ignorant.
    And the Military put nothing anything in those reports that had not been released to the press, just a little more detail …Think it through
    As for someone talking about confidential reports they viewed I am livid. I guess the Marines personnel Medical files are okay to become public YUK!!!!
    I appreciate the insight here that I have received, it has been hard to get a true picture and I still have a lot of questions, however there have been several holes filled
    Thanks Again and Be Blessed
    Enjoy your blogging I know Parts have actually been fun
    KF

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 11, 2008 @ 5:43 pm

  517. Just FYI the medical reports were not released even to the family

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 11, 2008 @ 6:05 pm

  518. I’ve been reading this brutal attack/onslaught on Mastiff & personally I could give a poop about Mastiffs, but I do have one question, did any of you who are accusing her of lying actually pick up the phone & call Westbrock Funeral home in Dayton to verify whether or not a Marine (cousin/family member) was flown in from Iraq to pull escort duty?

    No?

    Well I just needed to know so I did, the number is (937) 253-6161‎ and yes there was a Corporal who was a cousin who flew in from Iraq & Escorted Marie from N.C. to Delaware AFB & then to Wright Patterson AFB in Dayton to Westbrock, All decked out in his dressed blues. They wouldn’t tell me his name but I find it hard to believe that it could be anyone else other than Mastiff’s son.

    After my call, I believe Mastiff is who she says she is @ least in part & with that in mind she may actually have some real info that may not necessarily be public info, (so quick, lets all shout her down & shut her up, LOL). This BLOG should be renamed the Cesar fan club, LOL

    So, Now whatcha gonna do? Are you going to say I’m sorry I was wrong? OR are you going to say I’m sorry “BUT”? Whatcha gonna do? Are you going to be what you expect Mary to be? Later Days to you, Turkey Lips

    Comment by DancingTurkeyLips — August 11, 2008 @ 7:05 pm

  519. I for one stand by everything I have said.
    But,dancing turkey lips you need a hobby!
    A bird by any other name is still a bird.Chicky!

    Comment by kdb — August 11, 2008 @ 9:27 pm

  520. Whuchu know turkeylips? The gentleman I spoke with knew nothing. Who did you speak with there please?

    #1 fan of justice who doesn’t support murderers or liars.

    Comment by #1fanofjustice — August 11, 2008 @ 9:30 pm

  521. Oh no say it ain’t so kdb. Not chicky from liestoppers days.

    Comment by #1fanofjustice — August 11, 2008 @ 9:32 pm

  522. Yep, I beleive its the one and only! LOL
    Note:the bird,the anger (just the right amount too!) ,the “everybody loves Cesar”
    Good grief…………..

    Comment by kdb — August 11, 2008 @ 9:35 pm

  523. whatcha gonna do?
    whatcha gonna do when she says goodbye……. whatcha gonna do when she is gone……
    LOL

    Comment by kdb — August 11, 2008 @ 9:39 pm

  524. Mastiff,

    I am done with this blog…again there is nothing I can say to appease you. I never divulged anything confidential. Your response is proof why the Marines choose to say as little as possible. You simply take bits and pieces and find whatever you are looking for. I stated numerous times that I thought CL was scum and deserved prison. I also stated many truths that hurt, but if known and understood may help keep another person safe. Anger and rational thought don’t mix. I am not angry with you for attacking my credability. I hope you find peace. My last advice to you is simple. Have patience and the story will come out. CL will go to prison. It may not happen fast…but justice will come.

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 11, 2008 @ 9:52 pm

  525. Mastiff,

    I would like to make a seperate point. Please copy and paste any quote from me…

    1) Supporting CL
    2) Divulging Confidential Records

    Comment by Marine4400 — August 11, 2008 @ 9:57 pm

  526. I personally don’t see why detectives, the DA, whoever would release an investigative report on a case that is still active and still pending…in either the rape or the murder as both were still active and Cesar hadn’t been apprehended when her body was transported.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 12, 2008 @ 7:00 am

  527. Lindell – Any word on the Cesar Homecoming Front? Did you hammer down info on Gabriel’s bio dad? Is Christina still in Onslow County? Did the military sweep her Oops, I’ve been communicating with my fugitive husband blunder under the rug?

    Comment by KH — August 12, 2008 @ 8:36 am

  528. KH, I saw at one time where Amber and Tyler’s house was up for sale. Not sure if it still or not. I haven’t heard anything on Cesar and Christina’s house. The yard is a mess there-looks like a jungle…at least the last I saw it. No for sale on it though. Dont’ know about it being foreclosed on.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 12, 2008 @ 10:34 am

  529. Amber and Tyler’s rental home is still for sale. In the listing on realtor.com, it states the house is tenant occupied until November. I couldn’t get over how much they are asking for that place. Must be the community where it is. ;)

    As to 103 Meadow Trail, it is headed to foreclosure. The paperwork has been filed at the courthouse but no sale date has been listed nor has the property been listed on the subsitute trustee’s website.

    Comment by Sandy — August 12, 2008 @ 11:48 am

  530. Why all the shake up here I agree with the quote above”the Military has no special info in their records about the day or motive of the murder,,, because their judgment on Cesar was Flawed,,, their conclusions are wrong… But we can see how they were putting pressure on Cesar via an affair “ …I bet that’s the real pressure Cesar felt, I bet any attorney would tear Maria’s testimony apart, you all seem to get Maria could not make a creditable case in court. Cesar wasn’t afraid of Maria, I can’t waot for the doc’s to be made public. I say Cesar was afraid of the Marines for lying to them ,not the rape. I bet Cesar tried to talk Maria into going UA and Maria changed her mind. Cesar is Controlling SOB. I think Cesar had an either you go or die plan.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 12, 2008 @ 12:37 pm

  531. So a Marine was flown from Iraq to be an escort, from NC to DE to OH, but was put on duty and later his command got the leave replaced, but he was an escort, but he was flown back to Iraq and did not attend the funeral, but was at NC for CLB-27 restricted the Memorial Service and told that he could attend but not to tell anyone who he was and not to ask questions, yet was satisfied with what he was told of the investigation, where he received a 20 page investigative report on the case which he gave to his mother and she felt that the Panicked Command let them be privy to the info on the murder and it created more questions than answers….yet she knows 1st hand that the military does not work the way We say it is supposed to work,, but YES her son was satisfied with knowing what happened.and yet you discount my proof which is the truth, but you are all over a Marine who comes here and tells you confidential material defending the MC, while he brings shame on the Marines by breaking regulations, and we are all ignorant to believe that the MC would not give her son a 20 page report ,official release documents, with nothing, anything than that had been released to the press but more detail to the family member in NC that is traveling with the body.

    The Funeral was on 02-03/2008 and the CLB-27 Memorial Service was on 02-28-2008..so where is the truth Mastiff?

    Comment by Lucky Duck — August 12, 2008 @ 2:31 pm

  532. Congrats to Annie and Cory on the birth of their son!

    Comment by Anonymous — August 12, 2008 @ 2:41 pm

  533. Yes, congrats to Anne on the birth of her son, if that is the case. May she have many happy moments with him.

    Comment by Nehi — August 12, 2008 @ 2:52 pm

  534. Anon…when did she have him? I know I asked Mastiff’s if she did but I guess she chose not to answer b/c she either didn’t want to or didn’t know that she was pregnant. But congrats to Annie and Cory…I wish her all the happiness…she totally deserves it!

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 12, 2008 @ 2:54 pm

  535. Is this the second child for Anne and Corey?

    Comment by #1fanofjustice — August 12, 2008 @ 3:23 pm

  536. Greg, Bridget, Ashley, Jay, Marla

    Comment by Anonymous — August 12, 2008 @ 4:21 pm

  537. Lucky Duck LOL ,,, I never said that was the memorial service LOOK IT UP ,,, aug 7 10:30 YOU are the one who thought you knew what you were talking about …AND you simply knew nothing,,,. I questioned it I acually asked you if you were certain on that info on Aug 8 approx 4 30 I quote ““That was the order and you are certain…..”
    Any one can read this info and see what the truth is,,,,
    It is amazing this kind of stuff and anger must be what Maria felt towards her,,,,, Liars can be raped , whores can be raped , men can be rapes and Maria could have been raped,,, yes her past prevented anyone… even after her death from hearing her say,,,, I had a reason to fear Cesar and Anyone that thought Cesar was a good man was fooled

    Anyways I know there a lot more examples like the one above , I have no intention of addressing them…people can read and see what I stood for

    Thanks again for your insight

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 12, 2008 @ 7:26 pm

  538. For petes sake give it a rest.
    NOBODY is going to convict Cesar in the “court of public opinion” .
    Especially given the lack of evidence Maria left.Unfortunately for her she left a trail of lies.One after another.
    The sooner you realize that the better.

    Comment by kdb — August 12, 2008 @ 8:02 pm

  539. Okay all this in getting interesting, who’s turkey lips? And Anonymous and Mastiffs must be related Anonymous more so she\he gives info about the family and Mastiffs avoids,,,
    And who is aunt clara Anne and Corey?
    Greg, Bridget, Ashley, Jay, Marla? Diana LeVan
    Mary ,Millie, Dick. Ed. Bob. Frances
    People are giving names but know one is telling who they are?

    Comment by don'tknow — August 12, 2008 @ 8:07 pm

  540. At 49 years old you have lived long enough to know the process of the law.The law would have worked better for Maria if she had told the truth.

    Comment by kdb — August 12, 2008 @ 8:17 pm

  541. And what exactly do you stand for mastiffs?

    Comment by Nehi — August 12, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

  542. don’t know – you forgot Sheila

    Comment by Anonymous — August 12, 2008 @ 8:36 pm

  543. oh yeh shiela , but was that her mother right

    Comment by don'tknow — August 12, 2008 @ 8:41 pm

  544. Greg, Bridget, Ashley, Jay, Marla Mastiffs kids perhaps…………………………..;)

    Comment by beachboysbarbara — August 12, 2008 @ 9:59 pm

  545. There’s a lot to be said for KARMA & TRUTH :)

    Comment by kdb — August 12, 2008 @ 10:04 pm

  546. Stiff,

    [quote]….I am willing to restate my vision of what happened, (however no one here agrees LOL) but I was wondering if people knew for a fact (no has to believe me) but there was a Marine, family member, that came into town , was ordered NOT TO go to the Memorial Service nor expose who he was.
    He was given an official report and was not to stray from it, Now Maria’s friends did know who he was , he had told them before the order was given… From that info, I feel that the marines were hiding something etc however I can prove nothing,,..
    Comment by ihv2mastiffs August 4, 2008 @ 6:30 pm [/quote]
    _______________
    To which I responded that the Memorial Service was restricted to CLB-27 Marines and the family members… Which BTW is from the JD News coverage of the Memorial Service.
    _______________
    [quote]Lucky Duck, Concerning
    The Memorial Service was restricted to ONLY the Marines of the CLB-27 and family. So he was given the choice of coming to the Memorial as a member of the family or not coming at all. Only members of the CLB-27 were allowed to attend LCpl Lauterbach’s Memorial Service.

    That was the order and you are certain.. OUCH

    The Marine inquestion at Memorial Service,,, He was a family member flown in to serve as Honor Guard,,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs August 8, 2008 @ 4:08 pm

    The Ouch is ,,, he sould not have been excluded
    Comment by ihv2mastiffs August 8, 2008 @ 4:09 pm [/quote]
    ________________
    PLEASE NOTE that your above post states that HE WAS AT the Memorial Service. I am not clairvoyant and you refuse to be specific in your posts. There has to be a reason for your deceitfulness.

    So YES You DID say that he was AT THE MEMORIAL SERVICE. The Memorial Service mentioned in my post of August 4th , was about the only Memorial Service for LCpl Lauterbach at Camp Lejeune. You stated that the “Marine in Question” was there for the Memorial Service… But the only Memorial Service for LCpl Lauterbach at Camp Lejeune was held on February 28, 2008.

    Jennifer Hild wrote a story for the JDNews about the CLB-27 Memorial Service on February 28, 2008…which was restricted to CLB-27 Marines and Lauterbach\’s family.

    I never once implied that I had any knowledge of any order given, I gave you an opinion as to why such an order might be given. You as usual drew your own conclusions.

    Since you have stated that you are here to learn more about this case, my advice is to quit playing these childish games of fox and hound.

    Comment by Lucky Duck — August 12, 2008 @ 11:27 pm

  547. Check again on the memorial services

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 13, 2008 @ 6:17 am

  548. ChattyKathy,
    what was in the documents?
    20 pages I think not!

    Comment by Agree — August 13, 2008 @ 7:21 am

  549. Check again on the facts
    check again on what was reported
    check again on all the different stories Maria told
    check again on Cesars court date>hasn’t had one! NOT Convicted yet
    Check our demographic location we are in the U.S.Of A! (where the right to due process thrives)
    get over yourself!

    Comment by lucky ego — August 13, 2008 @ 7:33 am

  550. Maybe Mastiff’s son unit had returned home from Iraq by the date of the Memorial Service and he did try to attend the Feb. 28 Memorial Service. That would be my guess.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 13, 2008 @ 7:46 am

  551. Well it’s funny that this son was able to escort Maria’s body from NC to Dover to Dayton but he was unable to be home for the birth of his first child. Hmm I guess it’s the priority of things, eh?

    Comment by lucky ego — August 13, 2008 @ 9:08 am

  552. Anon….it seems that the son’s Marine unit didn’t return until sometime after the end of March….in my opinion anyway.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 13, 2008 @ 9:32 am

  553. You are right Ann.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 13, 2008 @ 9:34 am

  554. Ann, back in the beginning I saw a video clip of a service for Maria where a “dress blues” uniformed Marine was opening doors for the attendees. I somehow remember that the Marine’s name might have been given, although my memory isn’t crystal clear on that. Do you, or anyone else, remember what I speak of? It wasn’t the funeral, though.

    Comment by justice4all — August 13, 2008 @ 12:02 pm

  555. justice, I beleive that Marine was a person that knew Maria from their pre-Marine days. I’m pretty sure that Marine is not Mastiffs son.

    Comment by Nehi — August 13, 2008 @ 12:09 pm

  556. According to the picture it was a Lcpl Ryan Pennington of Dayton and it was at a memorial service in Ohio. He didn’t serve with Maria but went through training-probably MOS school. And that memorial was January 14. That’s not Mastiff’s son.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 13, 2008 @ 12:12 pm

  557. Thanks AnnDaniel for looking that up and clarifying.

    Comment by Nehi — August 13, 2008 @ 12:21 pm

  558. Ann, thanks. That is exactly what I meant. I think the Corps has done all they could for Maria as far as honoring her is concerned. AND, I believe they have been tactful and right in not releasing anything at all that could be detrimental to her memory. The whole story is really heartrending and Maria herself didn’t help matters at all, but all that aside, the real culprit needs to be brought to trial and dealt with because nothing justifies murder. Of course, it does help to understand how and why it got to that point. A “reason” doesn’t constitute an “excuse” but it is necessary for a jury to know all the facts so they can determine the right consequence. I am not a “Cesar supporter” but by the same token I would like to find out what really happened before just automatically stringing him up. I’d like to be certain it isn’t somehow a “frameup.” I do have an idea what happened, but without all the facts it is hard to tell.

    Comment by justice4all — August 13, 2008 @ 12:23 pm

  559. I have already stated why I mentioned that Memorial Service. It really doesn’t matter to me if “the Marine in Question” went to one or all of the Memorial Services.
    The point here is that since there were never charges made against Laurean for sexual assault and the case was “getting weaker and weaker” everytime Maria gave a different statement to investigators…why are these Congresspersons misrepresenting this case before Congress?

    Comment by Lucky Duck — August 13, 2008 @ 12:46 pm

  560. I agree Lucky Duck. While I don’t doubt there is room for good change, it shouldn’t be done based on misrepresentation. Unfortunately, the Steiner/Lauterbach clan (not only Maria and Mary) seem to be fond of not being accurate.

    In a backyard interview of Pete Steiner, he explains about how Maria and her sister were taken away from their teenage parents. I

    Information I have uncovered, reveals that Maria’s mother was 20 and her father was 27 when they went to live wih the Lauterbachs. I wouldn’t call thos ages teen years. Maria’s mother was 18 yrs old, when she had Maria and her father was 25.

    In my opinion, the Steiners keep becoming less and less credible. I do think they tend to rewrite history to suit their needs or causes.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 13, 2008 @ 1:07 pm

  561. I find it simply amazing that you still think you understand, Look a Maria’s living conditions as a child and compare to Pete’s story. Truth be told, you are the one rewritting history and ,,if you know what you say you know then wow! you then know the story Pete told is the true, and now you are holding back the complete story to prove your point,,,,,,AS YOU STATE, She was a teenager when the children were born,,That makes her 20 when Maria left for Dayton,,, where did she live before she came to Dayton???? Do you know the history of the adoption,??? And most of all WHY do you care?
    Leave this alone… there is a living breathing girl who has done nothing to you…. Someone who can be very hurt by this…. Do not make her more of a victim she already is.
    Bash Me all you want,,,,Spend your time tearing apart this story,,,,my son was in NC and there was a memorial service in NC…I was very please with the cooperation of his unit, displeased with the unit in Lejuene , he was in the US early the week of the 13th and left the following Monday, (I think it was Monday) for DE,, Look through the news paper etc… there was a lot of press ,,, anyways he then went to Dover and Wright Patterson,,, he was ordered to return to NC the Monday following Maria’s body arrival in Dayton… spent another day or so in NC awaiting a flight,,,He was NOT provide anytime to go TO ATTEND ANY Memorial service, If there is a pic it would only be in NC when the body was leaving,,,he was escort, not on the side of the body, at the head, There was NO Event even the Funeral that he was permitted to attend…. He saw Mary of a few minuets when the body arrived….…,, The Marines in Dayton and From My son’s Unit were impressive to say the least., So were the Forensic folks along with the AFB in DE, To tell ya the truth several of the guys in NC were very kind also. Again The fact they kept his time so restrictive raised a red flag!
    You want to make issue of this and you miss the issue,,, this is not about me or Mary, remember not congress, nor will any attorney be able to get a positive ruling in the Lauterbach case if there is not more to the story than is known here. So relax,,, if you think we are all a bunch of liars then the Lauterbachs will loose big time
    Or maybe you’ll feel like a fool in the end

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 13, 2008 @ 4:47 pm

  562. Since you aksed, she lived in Bradenton, Florida. Maybe Mary should come forth and tell Maria’s natural sibling about her genealogy. She is no longer a child. Do you think it is healthy to keep secrets? It is deceitful and Mary can’t hide behind the excuse of the young lady being a juvenile.

    The point is, the family tends to exagerate reality. Peter said the parents (emphasis on plural) were teeangers. The father wasn’t even close to being a teenager. The mother may have been a teenager by virtue of the fact that her age had the ending “teen” when she had the girls, but she was considered a LEGAL ADULT at 18. The way Peter described it , he led the media audience to believe that the parents were still in high school.

    Why did Peter even bring up the information on the natural parents in his interview?. You said this topic is irrelevant.. Obviously, he didn’t think so. Mary and Peter opened the natural parents can of worms, via the media. Of course, it has intrigued us,.

    Maybe, if Maria didn’t learn deceitful and manipulative behavior from her adoptive family, she might be alive today. Her lying became dangerous and played a part in this tragedy, whether you want to confront reality or not.. It is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

    I believe that Maria and Cesar were victims of each other. Obviously , Maria being the bigger victim.

    I think Cesar is scum of the earth. I hope he gets what is coming to him.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 13, 2008 @ 5:33 pm

  563. Mastiff – I’m curious, did you scold Marc Lauterbach, like you did me, for putting what he did out there?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 13, 2008 @ 5:52 pm

  564. The 13th of what month…January or February? The only memorial thing here in town-Jacksonville-was a candlelight vigil that was held. The memorial that her unit held was the end of February and her funeral was the beginning of February. Me personally, if I had the chance to come home for a cousin’s funeral or the birth of my child, I would gladly choose the birth of my child.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 13, 2008 @ 5:59 pm

  565. Ok, so you say the 13th…I’m going to guess and say the 13th of January. How did he get back so soon being that her body wasn’t even recovered until the afternoon of the 12th?

    The candlelight vigil here in Jacksonville was on 1/18, her family had visitation on 1/31, the funeral was 2/2, and the memorial that her unti held was not until March. As an escort, he had a job to right? And as the escort, once her body was delivered, his job as the escort would be over and then he would be sent back to his job in Iraq correct?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 13, 2008 @ 7:11 pm

  566. ok devildogs..WHY would the MCorps fly a ‘distant’ cousin from Iraq to be an ..escort for a LCpl….when we have funeral details on standby 365 days per year? Maria’s family should look in their mirror and ask themselves why Maria lied and stole from the co. kitty funds………..think she was taught as a child it was ok? It is very sad but true……Maria created her reputation aboard base..not us..not the MCorps. She did it. She lied, she stole, she had an affair with a married man.She became pregnant, by whom, yet to be told. She opted to remain in the MC. A pregnant marine can get out. She chose to remain and you mastiffs say she was afraid of CL. NOT…she wanted to hook him and was determined to do it at whatever cost. Unfortunately it was a huge price to pay and she ended up with nothing.I just hope she was ready for her death. The heat in that fire pit is nothing as hot as where she probably went.As for Mary….she needs to dwell on teaching her grandchildren honest living and stay out of politics. Mastiffs you seem a little ..bipolar, are you? Would you provide your son’s name? Is he a stellar Marine? What is his current duty station?

    Comment by Happy — August 13, 2008 @ 7:31 pm

  567. whoa… your statement about the heat in the fire pit is completely out of line, Happy.

    Comment by walker — August 13, 2008 @ 7:45 pm

  568. I agree Walker….

    So Happy you seem to know quite a bit about Maria and Cesar. What’s the story?

    Comment by Nehi — August 13, 2008 @ 7:51 pm

  569. Happy i agree with walker, That comment was so uncalled for.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 13, 2008 @ 8:13 pm

  570. Ann he arrived in the week of the 13th of Jan, and yes it was impressively fast, I was floored.. My memory is blurring on the day, however I do think it was towards the beginning of the week. My focus was not on dates, it was dealing with the shock and trying to help my daughter in-law meet up with her husband etc….she was pregnant and drove 10 hours to Ohio ,,, I did not think she should travel anymore alone, she agreed. I was her ride.

    Anyways Ann the above is true … days might be a little off however I am pretty sure the Monday 18th is when he left to Dover if you were looking for a photo that would probably be the only time there would be one,,, he was confined to base etc…If the memorial I referred to is important to you, it would be before that date.
    I really do not remember the name of the particular service that he was told not to go to… My point was,,, I had a red flag,,, that and the pregnancy dates that were released… Why the 2 sates…(noy by Maria but the Military) Those are my 2 flags…and as I stated above I thought it was human error on the judgment of Cesar (but understood the judgment on Maria) I do think that maybe understanding that most rape victims are the kind of girls that hang out with the wrong crowd, can be important,, so maybe we can do something there to help woman in the future, and I do not think she could have won a case against Cesar

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 13, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

  571. Thanks on the comment above, If ann is reading it really does do her heart good

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 13, 2008 @ 8:31 pm

  572. Maria was not perfect (none of us are). Just because she had a lying problem doesn’t mean she was evil.

    God and Great Grandmother Clara are looking over Maria in heaven.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 13, 2008 @ 8:32 pm

  573. I think that Mastiff’s son was ordered not to tell anyone who he was because Marines and Marine family members would question why a very distant cousin was given leave to come home from Iraq for the funeral.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 13, 2008 @ 9:02 pm

  574. This is from on of the JDNews arcticles. A quote from Mary L.

    “I think there is an important issue here that when people make serious accusations that there is a presumption of innocence, and that is important for any accused person,” Lauterbach said”.

    I think Mary talks out of both sides of her mouth as is evidence by her testimony before Congress.

    Comment by Mary, Mary Quite Contrary — August 14, 2008 @ 8:41 am

  575. Link

    http://www.jdnews.com/news/lauterbach_54572___article.html/maria_daughter.html

    Comment by Mary, Mary Quite Contrary — August 14, 2008 @ 8:47 am

  576. 1/18 was a Friday. That was the night of the vigil that was here in town. Now, he probably didn’t get to go to that as Maria’s body wasn’t here in town anymore…it was at the state medical examiners-Chapel Hill. And it seems he wasn’t even in town for the visitation or the funeral as he was back in Iraq. Like I said…as an escort, you have a job to do and when that is done, you’re done. I don’t know all about being an escort but from people I have talked to, it’s not about getting to go out and socialize…you’re there for a job. You say his wife had to drive 10 hours…she must not have been in 29 Palms then as that is a much longer drive.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 14, 2008 @ 8:59 am

  577. Ann

    The 29 Palms base newspaper doesn’t show the birth of Mastiff’s grandchild, so I believe that the daughter-in-law probably went to her family’s home to stay with her family, while Mastiff’s son was deployed, which is probably 10 hours away from Dayton.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 14, 2008 @ 9:07 am

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  579. Ann, and Anonymous. There really is nothing implied in my comment above, all the info is there, he arrived and was restricted to camp lejene until he departed on approx Monday the 21st ,,,,
    The restriction is what caused the red flag,,, My comment “I was her ride” does not imply we ever made it to NC, we did not, however we were able to meet up with him in dover

    With all of your investigative skills , I have a question,,,, When you buy a bus ticket (weather she was or was not the purchaser of the bus ticket , I think she was , because Cesar says he was with her,,, I am reluctant of the eye witness just because of the time lapse also there were other creditable eye witnesses that said they say her after she had died , I do not think anyone was lying, just Senior Moments ,,,, so I am speculating etc… ) anyways, unlike the airport, you are not required to name the intended user of the ticket,,, any thoughts on that and you are not required to show the same type of ID when purchasing and or boarding.
    Does every here think Maria intended to Board the bus, or are some of you on the fence as I am

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 14, 2008 @ 4:33 pm

  580. The whole bus thing is definitely a mystery.

    I do think Maria initially intended to get on the bus on Sat., after she bought the ticket. However, I do think it was an impulsive decision. It appears that Maria had some impulsive tendencies. Couple that with hormone overload.

    She had told her friend that she was tired of the USMC. I think she felt she was potentially headed for a discharge. NCIS indicated that was a definite possibility and they probably informed her of this possibility. She makes the impulsive decision to leave.

    I think she may have called Cesar to tell him that she was leaving and needed money.. Maybe that is where he got that she demanded money from him for the ticket. This goes with the thinking that in a lot of lies there is some truth. He said sure come over to my house,and I’ll give it to you. Cesar is thinking, yeah this is great, my problem is leaving town. Then when she gets to his house, they get in an argument (for whatever reason) and she tell him no, she isn’t going to leave on the bus tomorrow. Cesar says you have to leave. She says no. He gets angry and snaps.

    But why El Paso. Maybe she bought that destination with the intention of throwing the USMC off, if they came to look for her. She could have gotten off anywhere between Jacksonville and El Paso and no one would have been any the wiser. Then she could have purchased a separate ticket to Ohio.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 14, 2008 @ 4:57 pm

  581. I agree there is a lot of truth in Cesar’s Letter, weather or not he wrote it, I think it was his planned alibi etc..
    That’s why I think he was at the bus station.
    Before I say to much more on what I speculate One more question…is there any more infor on the letter Maria Wrote (forensic evidence?)

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 14, 2008 @ 5:20 pm

  582. I have always heard that if someone really wanted to disappear, riding a bus was the way to go since they aren’t as stringent on ID’s, etc., as say an airport. I personally find that appalling since the occurrence of 9/11.

    Now we obviously know that Laurean didn’t use the ticket purchased by Maria on 12/14/07 since that ticket was found in her car on January 7th.

    Look how easy it was for Laurean to get into Mexico after the “earthwide search” was put out. But then again, his wife gave him a good 4 1/2 to 5 hour headstart since she waited until after her arrival on base to notify anyone about the existence of the “note” he left behind, especially since she claims one of the following: a) she was awake, begged him to turn himself in before he left or b) she awoke to find the note and had no idea he wrote this note beforehand.

    I do agree with Anonymous, why did Maria choose the El Paso destination? That never made any sense to me why she chose El Paso. Which there is a lot about this case that doesn’t make any sense to me, but then again no one can make sense out why people murder other people.

    Mastiff, OCSO has not released any information as to the handwriting analysis results on the note Dan Durham found. SA Megan Grafton did say on the Dateline episode that to her, the handwriting did appear to be Maria’s since SA Grafton had seen other writings that were done by Maria.

    Comment by Sandy — August 14, 2008 @ 6:13 pm

  583. El Paso as a destination makes a lot of sense if you believe CL forced Maria to buy the bus ticket. Just a thought…

    Comment by walker — August 14, 2008 @ 6:17 pm

  584. Sandy, are you sure about the ticket in the car, I have a theory and that would play right into it?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 14, 2008 @ 6:17 pm

  585. I may be wrong, but I don’t think a ticket was found in Maria’s car.

    Comment by walker — August 14, 2008 @ 6:27 pm

  586. Did not know that Thanks, I think there was some premeditation involved whats your thought?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 14, 2008 @ 6:30 pm

  587. I am in total agree ment with you Walker

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 14, 2008 @ 6:31 pm

  588. I do believe Maria received the military discount which would have required her to produce her military i.d. I have purchased bus tickets, as late as April 08, on line for someone else. That person had to produce an i.d. card in order to receive the ticket. Maybe if you call the J’ville bus station Mastiffs they can inform you what their procedures are.

    Comment by Nehi — August 14, 2008 @ 6:47 pm

  589. I must back up and I apologize for my mistake. It was the expired September MPO that was recovered from Maria’s car (in the glove compartment IIRC), not the bus ticket. I do apologize again for that mistake.

    In looking at the Hard Drive Search Warrant, dated 1/12/08, page 6, number 8, Capt. Sutherland specifically talks about the ticket. This is what he typed:

    “As a result of the investigation, I know that Lauterbach, purchased a bus ticket to Texas on December 15, 2007. I know this after reviewing records from Trailways Bus Company and from interviews conducted of employees of Trailways’ Jacksonville station. I also know based on the investigation that the ticket purchased was never used.”

    Link to this Search Warrant: http://portal.jdnews.com/lauterbach/pdf/Hard%20Drive%20Search%20Warrants.pdf

    Now in the Search Warrant, Capt. Sutherland stated the ticket was purchased on 12/15 but we now know the ticket was purchased on 12/14. (When Lindell started the blog, Mike McHugh went to the bus station, spoke to Mr. Hames and obtained a copy of the ticket purchased and it’s here on this blog somewhere).

    So wonder what became of the ticket? Was it thrown in the fire pit, dumped in the Laurean garbage can and ended up at the landfill or placed in a dumpster on base? Just like where are Maria’s glasses that she was wearing on 12/14 (in the ATM footage) or her shoes she had to be wearing that day?

    Comment by Sandy — August 14, 2008 @ 6:51 pm

  590. Thanks , it does make sense that she probaly made the purchase.
    Her stuff I bet is in a land fill, I think Cesar tossed the ATM and the phone to redirect the police etc… hoping a theif would use the ATM and a ton of calls would be made on the phone I just thought maybe he had hoped someone would steel the ticket and try to use it … making it look like Maria had been on the bus

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 14, 2008 @ 7:21 pm

  591. Okay Maria purchases the bus ticket on Friday 12/14 and is to leave the next day on the 10:05 a.m. bus, but where was she planning on spending that Friday night?

    Maria could have gone back to Durham’s residence but if she returned there (especially after leaving the note), I’m sure there would have been a lot of questions asked of her that most likely she wasn’t prepared to answer.

    Comment by Sandy — August 14, 2008 @ 7:48 pm

  592. Sandy I agree on your last statement, but my jury is out on who wrote the letter, the reason I say that,,, is that the only release of information is carefully stated … but they are not releasing the information yet on the forensics, I think (just like the bus ticket) if they knew for sure it was Maria’s handwritting they would have realed that. I am sure they have that info…and the Military Probably (should no longer )have processions of it, I bet Onslow does.

    It also does not make sense that she did not pack if she was leaving for good, even on impulse you would take an over night bag, plus she did not leave the key with the note.
    Seems like the items she did take were more to quick change for the evening events, Not a trip

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 14, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

  593. In my opinion, and this is just my opinion, the bus ticket purchase and the note left by Maria in conjuction with CL’s “notes” make no sense unless Maria was forced to buy the bus ticket… again, just my opinion until we hear otherwise…

    Comment by walker — August 14, 2008 @ 9:01 pm

  594. OCSO does have the note in their possession (hopefully it’s back from analysis by now). I do remember Capt. Sutherland commenting that whatever is found out via the handwriting analysis wouldn’t be released until trial.

    IIRC, Durham took the note to his command in the beginning and I’m not sure when it occurred but OCSO got it sometime afterwards. Remember Durham’s residence is in the county’s jurisdiction.

    Walker, I’m just not sold on the forced part yet (and will gladly change my mind if anything ever comes out that shows Maria was forced), but here’s what I can’t understand — why did Laurean write the note to his wife when he had already told her what supposedly happened on Friday 12/14 during the drive to attorney Mark Raynor’s office on 1/10. Was this done to make sure she got his facts right?

    Mastiff, there’s no rhyme nor reason why Maria purchased the ticket and only took a few things with her when she left Durham’s home. It does indeed appear she was only going to be gone for a short period, not an extended trip as proposed in the note. I can speculate but that’s not going to do any good so I guess we’ll have to wait until the trial to see what the DA brings forth about this part of the case.

    Comment by Sandy — August 14, 2008 @ 9:33 pm

  595. The fact that Maria did not not take much with her leads me to believe that she did not in fact mean to go UA. Just my opinion, of course.

    Comment by walker — August 14, 2008 @ 9:41 pm

  596. The facts related to Maria’s disappearance and eventual murder are completely seperate from whether the MC had any responsibility in her disappearance, in my opinion.

    Maybe Happy will come back on and tell us what really happened?

    Comment by walker — August 14, 2008 @ 10:15 pm

  597. Walker, I agree totally

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 15, 2008 @ 6:20 am

  598. I don’t think Maria was a planner. I believe her decision was very impulsive and not well thought ou, as in planning for the long terrm vs. short term.

    Her cousin, Marc Lauterbach, stated this on his blog,

    “While both girls were perfectly normal developmentally (at least as far as I could tell), both had a tendency to be immature and struggled with school and various responsibilities. Maria had a tendency not to think things through and then got into trouble because of it”.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 15, 2008 @ 7:23 am

  599. As far as ID checks at the Jax bus station go, I took a bus from here to DC, for a change over there, and onto Harrisburg. My ID was never even checked once. That was not too long ago, so hope they changed that since then.

    Also, did read where the Larueans in Nev, have used the El Paso/Juarez entry into Mexico. So, find it really hard to believe that Maria, from Ohio, never been to Mexico, would pick out that des by herself. Looong bus ride for a pregnant female. According to the search warrant on her vehicle, she only had her laptop, a movie, a tee shirt, some dog tags, paperwork, and other small items in her car. No mention of the items that Sgt Durham, immediately noticed were missing, when he found her note. What ever happened to those items????

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 15, 2008 @ 7:32 am

  600. I think if a person were trying to disuade an entity to come looking for them, it is reasonble to believe that someone might create a smoke screen that they left the country by purchasing a ticket to Mexico or Canada.

    In LK’s article today, there is mention about someone questioning Laurean’s sexual perference. Maybe he was bisexual and Maria had pictures of him in a compromising situation and she threatened to hand these over to the USMC, after she left Jacksonville. I think that might be enough to spark the rage that occurred on Dec. 14th.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 15, 2008 @ 8:51 am

  601. Anonymous maybe you’re right. Perhaps Maria and Cesar were into the AFF together and had a threesome and she held onto some photos for blackmail. Given she had been caught stealing from the MC through the petty cash system and the lies she was telling. We can assume she wasn’t above doing something like that for money.

    Didn’t Mary say she was pregnant by an officer? That would blow (no pun intended) CLJ wide open, wouldn’t it?

    I think if she believed the lie she told her friend about being sterile after a hysterectomy, that it’s possible for her to have become unglued. Then she could walk away from it all. Didn’t she tell Jessica she wanted to walk away from the U.S.M.C.?

    Comment by #1fanofjustice — August 15, 2008 @ 9:19 am

  602. I don’t know that Maria was pregnant by an officer…I think that got lost in translation. Maria may have said he’s my superior, he’s an NCO-non commissioned officer and that was mistaken for officer. I could be wrong though.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 15, 2008 @ 9:43 am

  603. Anon, I think you might be right. CL figured he was gonna skate out of the rape, lies, etc., and told Maria, she was the one who was going to take the heat, so girl, get outta Dodge. She, then pulled out the “sexual preferences,” trump card on him. Oh yeah, that would put him over the edge, especially with his ego, and that info leaking to the Corps.

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 15, 2008 @ 9:54 am

  604. Unenlisted

    ITA . This is the most plausible theory yet.

    Comment by KH — August 15, 2008 @ 9:58 am

  605. walker, I agree with you totally that marines have very little on the murder, they did not even think Cesar was a threat, they also stated that they had no knowlege of the MOP being broken, this tells me they have nothing that would indicate a potential murder, The murder also occured off base and the are not in the forefront of the investigation. They would be providing evidense to onslow county not the otherway around.

    My understanding , however , is they requested the DNA (they are doing there own study, I THINK) the legal reason they used is because it could have been Cesar via the rape.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 15, 2008 @ 5:57 pm

  606. I meant the only legal way to obtain the DNA was to use it in the rape trial

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 15, 2008 @ 7:39 pm

  607. DNA? For the rape trial? What rape trial? Are you talking before Maria was murdered or after?

    Comment by Nehi — August 15, 2008 @ 8:26 pm

  608. Nehl,
    Maybe asking this way would be more clear. Why do the Marines still have an interest in the DNA.? I read that “all charges against Cesar would have to be reported before extradition” and the Military (to my knowlege has made no charge against Cesar).
    Therefore thier case is closed.
    Why then would they need the childs DNA?
    And I do not care who child it was. I kind of hope it was Cesar just because I hate for there to be a daddy out there feeling like he can’t tell etc…

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 15, 2008 @ 9:05 pm

  609. If the daddy isn’t Laurean there’s the possibility that the father doesn’t even know Maria was pregnant with his child.

    Personally I can understand this case better if Laurean was indeed the baby’s father. But as we all know, murder cases don’t come nicely wrapped with pretty bows.

    Comment by Sandy — August 15, 2008 @ 9:29 pm

  610. Sandy, If we look at this case from the point of view of what Cesar and Maria thought at the time of the murder,,, the Childs DNA becomes irrelevant. WHY? Because Cesar did not know the results of the DNA. So the murder motive could only be the Fear of the results , not the results themselves..

    Maria tells a friend she is not sure weather the Baby is a good thing or not, I do not think that implies Cesar, I think she would have said something like “the daddy is married and his wife is a BXXXX” I think Maria actually Feared that it might be Cesar
    I also think Maria was telling the truth about rape. If you look at her MO, she told really far out stories when she was making things up… BUT she did not back down from the rape charges, it was not a FAR OUT THERE story, nor did she want the MPO removed. But insisted that the DNA be removed as evidence,, I think she wanted Cesar out of the picture, I think Cesar raped her, being a controlling kind of guy saying “You Can’t Just Stop Seeing Me etc…”
    I also think the assumption that Maria only feared an Article 32 is wrong,, I think she felt trapped. Fear of Cesar AND the Article 32 ,then Cesar played on that fear.

    Remember Maria had a way out, she could have aborted the child.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 16, 2008 @ 9:03 am

  611. I don’t think aborting the child was an option Maria would ever exercise. If the allegations of rape were false then I most certainly do consider that as a “WAY OUT THERE” lie. Once reported, Maria would have to stick to her story or she would have been in serious trouble for making false allegations. She had no recourse but to follow through.

    We still have no proof that there was a rape by Laurean. If the due date of February 08 is the correct date then Gabriel was conceived after allegations were made and unless she was seeing Laurean secretly after then, he is not the father of this child and that may have been the motive for why the murder happened.

    Imo, McNeil, will bring all of this forward and into the light in the trial in an attempt to show the undue stress that Laurean was under while knowing all along he had not raped Maria nor was he the father of her child. I believe McNeil will try to convince the jury that this was a crime of passion (2nd Degree) and not a premeditated murder, that erupted when Maria came face to face with Lauren at his home that day,.

    Comment by Drake Garrett — August 16, 2008 @ 9:27 am

  612. Drake. I think your right on, That is the angle in court, Maria lied ,this does speak to the defense’s case. However I do not think that speaks to all the elements of what really happened.
    Look at most of the blogs, they eliminate the person named “Maria” they narrow her down to someone who NEVER told the truth. If you look at the case. Cesar would never have been convicted, he should have looked forward to that day in Court if innocent, any 1st year attorney could have the DNA thrown out. And the charges dropped. Why was that not done. If is was then Cesar was not afraid of those charges,,,I am sure Cesar Legal Council told him not to worry. Unless the above post is true and the Military was going to use the DNA to prove sex,,, Maria is not putting that pressure on Cesar the Military is.
    Undo Stress might fly here in public opinion here, however I hope the prosecutor argues that Cesar was not under so much pressure of Rape Charges, there was no evidence in the case. Therefore his day in court would be vindication not prosecution. Besides I do not think the rape was going to trial.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 16, 2008 @ 10:26 am

  613. ihv2Mastiffs I have no idea what you mean by this statement.

    “Look at most of the blogs, they eliminate the person named “Maria” they narrow her down to someone who NEVER told the truth”.

    How do blogger elminate Maria? I think the exact opposite. Her lying is part of who she was. There is no malice in that statement. Just reality. For us to try to make heads or tails of what may have gone on, it helps to understand who the victim was. You on the other hand, want us to discount a true part of her personality and then you tend to berate posters for stating Maria had a huge propensity to lie. You call them Cesar supporters, even when they aren’t.

    I guess I don’t understand your motive for being here because it doesn’t seem to be to seek to understand what happened on Dec 14th. I understand that it is probably hard for family members, even distant ones, to be objective. If it were my family member, I’d probably have a hard time being objective too. Especially when you consider the manner of Maria’s death and the treatment of her body post death.

    Comment by Confused by Mastiff — August 18, 2008 @ 6:51 am

  614. Confused by Mastiff, I a sorry you feel my intent in reading this blog is to eliminate Maria’s past. If you read the statements above I have never thought of Maria as an Angel, and I have an understanding on why people think what they think about her.

    I do however know, Maria did have potential and there was so much more of her than what we see in the press, And the conclusions being reached because of her elaborate stories make me sad, I do believe that the Military because of Maria’s past (I understand why as I have so often stated) did not do a thorough investigation in to Cesar, I don’t blame Maria for that. I feel that although I understand the Militaries reluctance to move fast , I am sure their were signs from Cesar that he was a problem .
    I accept the fact that Maria did put out a Cry Wolf Situation for herself, But remember the Cry Wolf moral is that no one will listen when you are really in trouble… To Me,,, that is What Maria was going through, I do not think she was total ignorant to the trouble that Cesar could cause her

    I came to this blog to learn and have actually learned a lot, I am about at that point that I am settled with my theory on what happened. It however does involve a fearful Maria. If you understood who she was (so much more than a liar and thief) than maybe you would see what I see.
    I am very interested in this legal process and I also understand the difference between what can be proven in court vs the details that will never enter court.

    Bottom line is , when I asked a question above (such as the conception date) and the answer is Because Maria lied, To me it does not make sense , the Military would not change the medical records because Maria lied…I guarantee Maria did not have that kind of control. I guess I am looking for a logical reason and now I have it. I wanted to believe the Military had put out 2 conception dates because had actually changed as the pregnancy progresses, However If 4400 is correct and the Conception date is and always was May 14th Then all makes sense to me. That piece was key ,To My THEORY. And if we forget that there is more to this murder than Maria past.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 18, 2008 @ 4:52 pm

  615. Pressed the wrong button LOL
    And if we forget that there is more to this murder than Maria past. Then all of the conclusions stem from Well Maria Lied, Maria ling to me gives reason\understanding for folks not to believer in the rape case, but it does not mean she was not raped it only means it would be hard to convict.
    However if Cesar Murdered Maria it does mean Cesar if a bad guy and I does give credence to the evidence that Maria was really afraid and the Harassment did take place

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 18, 2008 @ 5:17 pm

  616. Hypothetical question as I don’t know for fact….but Ciccarelli said they had evidence that showed that they had a “friendly” relationship. Now, what if there is hard evidence-email, phone calls, letters…to show that they indeed were friendly after the allegations were made and up until her death. Then what?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 18, 2008 @ 7:06 pm

  617. I have no doubt that there was more to Maria than the lying. It makes me sad to think that she and her child are no longer here because of a selfish act of murder. I feel sorrow for the family and friends of Maria.

    Maria should have been afraid of Cesar or anyone she would make rape accusations against. Personally, I don’t think that she was raped. I think she got pissed off at Cesar and made the accusation. She got herself in too far with the lie and had to follow it through to attempt to preserve her USMC career. If falsely accused of something like that, I know I would feel less than kindness toward the accuser. I think she was afraid of the repercussions of her lie (both on the USMC and Cesar front).

    It is unfortunate the Mary and Vic were not able to help Maria get a hold on her lying problem. DId Uncle Pete ever confront Maria about her lying problem? I understand that he probably couldn’t ethically offer her treatment, but surely he had colleagues who could. Because I haven’t heard differently, it seems, to the outsider looking in, that her family chose to sweep the problem under the rug and then pushed it off on the USMC. After months of reading and exploring this case, I do believe Maria would still be here, if she had been learned to control her compulsion to lie. If hers was a behavioral problem that required assistance from mental health professionals, she should have received that help vs. a few years in the USMC. Hhindsight is 20/20 and I am sure that Mary beats herself up about this. She may be deflecting her guilt by soley blaming the USMC for not protecting her daughter. I think there is enough blame to go around The USMC may have been able to do things differently, but so could of the Lauterbachs/Steiners. I’d have a lot more respect for Mary, if she came out and said that she should have done things differently too.

    Although I don’t agree with some of Mary’s actions, I do feel compassion for her and the family (to include you Mastiff and Maria’s natural family). The loss of a family member is never easy.

    Comment by Confused by Mastiff — August 18, 2008 @ 7:19 pm

  618. I think that no matter what comes out about the family \ Maria. I feel there is an element that needs to be considered. Maria even though she lied,, there can also some truth to what she had said.
    I do have issue with the passive Military response
    I do believe she was being harassed , but I also believe abused woman stay with their husbands, not because they like being beaten, but because that look at their own behavior and blame themselves. So to every abused wife that covers for her husband we could say the same thing. I am NOT blaming the Military , Look at my post above you will also see that I am not PRO adding additional Laws and Regulations etc…
    I disagree with the theory of Maria going to the house and Cesar just losing his temper because Maria lied about the rape and he was in trouble for sleeping with her… I see in the evidence premeditation. I am sure there will be additional evidence that shows something far more sinister via Cesar as time goes on.
    Concerning Mary saying the Military holds sole responsibility I bet your wrong, If she said The Military Hold Sole RESPOSABILITY, I would say she was wrong. But if you are interpreting, well than we can say you meant….. Mary and the family should take sole responsibility// I do not think you are accusing the family of murder. But see how that works.
    If you read the Military Initial release you will see that they were very passive about Maria gone missing That were unaware (after she was reported missing) they did not even look to see if she showed up for her Ob appointment. They were unaware that Cesar used the ATM machine I posted it above August 2, 2008 @ 7:27 pm. I think this was the same way Maria rape case was handled , sort of WE’LL GET TO THAT WHEN WE CAN…
    Ann can you point me to the evidence concerning the phone calls and letters or do we not know anymore than that.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 18, 2008 @ 8:25 pm

  619. Ann I missed the Hypothetical and no My thoughts of premeditation would still play. I think they did talk,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 18, 2008 @ 8:31 pm

  620. Ann I correct the above(or complete my thought) I think they did talk however I do not think the affair continued..

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 18, 2008 @ 8:33 pm

  621. The military may be guilty of being passive, but weren’t they passive because of the note she wrote that she was going UA? Megan Grafton said she believed it to be Maria’s handwriting, so probably others in Maria’s command probably recognized the handwriting to be Maria’s too. We don’t know what the other thing was that happened 6 wks prior to Maria’s disappearance that was supposed to greatly impact the Article 32 hearing. Whatever it was may have contributed to the passive behavior of the USMC.

    On the same note, I believe the Latuerbachs were a little passive in their immediate response to the note that Sgt Durham called them about. There is no way in heck I’d remain in Ohio, with my 7 month pregnant daughter being unexpectedly UA and a rape allegation hanging in the background. I’d have been in NC as soon as I could drive or fly there, which ever being the quickest way to get there. Especially, since Mary and Pete said that Maia had been previously harrassed. I don’t care who told me to stay home, they would be wasting their breath.

    You don’t see the USMC pointing the finger at the Lauterbachs for sending an unprepared young adult into the military. I do see Mary doing a lot of finger pointing and taking away presumption of innocence. Especially after she said:
    “I think there is an important issue here that when people make serious accusations that there is a presumption of innocence, and that is important for any accused person,” Lauterbach said”.

    This was a terrible situation. I don’t think any of the changes that Mary wants done, would have helped Maria’s situation. She sounds foolish unequivocally claiming that Maria was raped, when there is so much out there that points to her probably not being raped. If changes are to be done, they need to be based on substantiated cases.

    Comment by Confused by Mastiff — August 18, 2008 @ 9:55 pm

  622. SA Grafton reported on Dateline, that six weeks before she vanished Maria changed her statement and said that she was mistaken about the baby being Laurean\’s. Also a gynocological proceedure had been performed and the results showed that she had made a mistake in her dates and calculations. Maria also told them that she had been seeing someonoe else. Iit was just six weeks before she vanished that she moved into off base quarters, with Sgt Durham.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 19, 2008 @ 12:39 am

  623. Ok Mastiff’s, you say that you believed they still talked but no affair. The parameters of the MPO were not to be violated by either party. If Maria was raped by Cesar and was so afraid of him, why still try to talk to him? If he tried to talk to her, why didn’t she report MPO violations? And if she tried talking to him, why didn’t he report MPO violations? They were no longer working together or having to attend any functions together so there would have been no need for her to talk to him or him talk to her.

    You mention the military being passive, I dont’ see it that way. They do the same for other Marines that go UA. They simply go look for them. As for them not knowing she missed an OB appointment-they don’t know when your appointments are. I know for me, I would tell them the day prior that I had an appointment. If my appointment was first thing in the morning, then the day before I would write it on the in/out board where I would be and I would also call and remind them. And as Me to Iguana, Confused, myself and others have stated numerous times, they had a note that was from Maria and they had no reason to think anything otherwise. Durham sure didn’t seem concerned that it wasn’t Maria. He didn’t seem concerned the night he found it. Couple that with what a friend from bootcamp said-who talked to Maria earlier in December-that Maria wasn’t happy with the Marines and she was tired of it and it appears that she in fact went UA. And hadn’t she been UA before…one time she didn’t show for PT and the other she didn’t show for work until later? How could anyone have predicted Maria was going to be murdered? Noone could have.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 19, 2008 @ 6:42 am

  624. Ann On Maria not showing for PT and Work until late do you have those dates? Before or After the MPO … I would love to see the link.
    My point is just as stated above …. Because Maria Lied she was not taken seriously and in turn had no legal refuge. (even after she was murdered VERY FEW people think that maybe WE ARE WRONG, and in fact, she was being victimized I think the dead body speaks strongly to that,,, Instead we want to argue that she did all these things, instead I think we should argue that if a (NOT SO GREAT MARINE) has accused someone else of a crime, then is being harassed, in that case The Harassed should be looked at, and if they are doing it anonymously then we know it is intended for the victim and not random. Therefore that person is under a real threat.
    Maybe no matter who you are we should take notice if you go missing ESPECIALLY if we know you had reported harassment and reported a rape… I do not suggest that the Marines should have compiled a mission of Recon Units or anything. Just take notices and meet with the Local Law Enforcement with SOME sense of urgency.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 5:12 pm

  625. Me to Iguana Yes I am familiar with that, that is why I did not understand why, AFTER she died, the Military said they were going to use the DNA in the rape case. See the Onslow County vs Cesar Laurean Warrant
    Remember Maria retracted the Baby date in Her 1st meeting with them after her test were preformed,,, Look at the TimeLine and view her 1st meeting with the investigators

    Is it possible that Maria practiced safe sex with the other partner, and the rape there was no protection, therefore she assumed it was the result of rape during the initial visit, But the dates proved her wrong so she did exactly what she should have done. She told the investigators in the 1st meeting that her Medical did not come out the way she had expected therefore the pregnancy does not apply to the rape.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 5:27 pm

  626. Mastiffs, Maria did not retract her baby from the rape statement until the first of November. As to the dates of her UA’s, it was stated in the questions sent back to the Congressman that those occured on April 24-so after the alleged rape but before she reported it and definitely before the MPO. She had two in one day.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 19, 2008 @ 6:01 pm

  627. Confused by Mastiff , It will be interesting watching the case before congress. It was my understanding that there were several cases together. I know the case is about the Victims that reporting rape being treated like the bad guy.

    I also know the law firm that took the case would not have taken it unless they felt they could win. I am sure the Military Attorneys will present all you have mentioned; and I am confident that there is a lot more to this story than we have heard and am also as confident that all the evidence does not point to Maria and Her Family being wrong…
    I’m very disappointed that the Military did not show up at the hearing, However I am sure that’s not because Maria lied nor is it because they don’t like Mary.
    I do think its because they were not prepared to answer the questions on record and or before the public.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 6:05 pm

  628. Ann, My understanding is below is the timeline of events, Note your right they did interview her early on , however after the pregnancy test the next interview was Nov 5
    Also note if the Pregnancy was confirmed as you stated above June 27th to be a conception date why on Oct 18th did they even consider the DNA as evidence ???? it does not make sense..
    October 18
    NCIS recommends that no disciplinary action be taken until evidence can taken from the child.
    October 22
    Witnesses questioned in rape investigation.
    November 5
    Lauterbach moves off-base into home with Sgt. Durham, who planned to leave North Carolina in December for training in California. Lauterbach planned to sublet the home in his absence.
    The same day, a trial council re-interviews Lauterbach, at which time she adjusts her statement to say that her pregnancy was not the result of a sexual assault.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 6:13 pm

  629. ANN Meant to say \”Also note if the Pregnancy was confirmed as you stated above June 27th to be a conception date of May 14th \”why on Oct 18th did they even consider the DNA as evidence ????

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 6:15 pm

  630. Mastiff’s…I’m seriously tired of trying to explain it to you. I, and several others, have tried over and over again to explain and you refuse to listen. Re-read the posts above and you will probably find your answer. Good luck!

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 19, 2008 @ 6:27 pm

  631. Confused by Mastiff posted: We don’t know what the other thing was that happened 6 wks prior to Maria’s disappearance that was supposed to greatly impact the Article 32 hearing.

    That was what my post was in answer to.

    The Article 32 would have been held in order to place Laterbach and any witnesses under oath in order to get to the truth of all that had happened in the Lauterbach investigation. Then the charges would have be made or the investigation closed. That is why it was imperative that the DNA sample from the baby be included in the investigation, so it would be part of the Article 32.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 19, 2008 @ 7:27 pm

  632. It is as simple as this: All criminal investigations must have a conclusion, even when the accuser or the accused are deceased. You just don\\\’t stop an investigation and write it off, someone, somewhere is eventually going to ask for the particulars of the investigation and what conclusions were drawn from that investigations. The USMC has stated through General Regner who has informed Turner that the Marine Corps \\\”considers the sexual assault portion of the investigation to be concluded.\\\” They must have the DNA evidence to show whether or not Laurean lied in his statement that he never had sexual contact with Lauterbach.

    First there was never a rape case, there was an investigation into Lauterbach\’s allegations of \”rape\”…but there was never a rape case. The investigators never found enough evidence to support \”rape\”. There was evidence of \”sexual assault\”, which was what Lauterbach had described. He asked for sex, she told him \”NO\”. Then he asked for sex again and she said \”NO\”. When he refused to take her answer of \”NO\”, and continued to ask, it became \”sexual assault\”. Though she did not provide evidence to support the \”rape\” allegations…the baby\’s DNA had proven that Laurean was the father, that evidence along with Lauterbach\’s testimony would have provided evidence to refute Laurean\’s denial of any \’sexual contact\’ with Lauterbach.

    While the sexual assault investigation has been concluded, NCIS has an open investigation into the murder of a Marine. That case is still open and it too must reach a conclusion. While the murder happened out of the jurisdiction of the base…Lauterbach was still a Marine under contract to the US Government. The murderer of Lauterbach destroyed Government property when she was murdered….NCIS has to be part of that investigation and is keeping it open until JAG decides what the future holds for Laurean.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 19, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

  633. If that is what they were doing , they had no legal right to the DNA in the “sexual assault” case as they stated that was their intent,,,, However I do believe what you posted is exactly what they were doing. I had actually heard that and argued that the Military was more legal savvy than that,,,, they would not force irrelevant evidence in one case to prove another and that any 1st year Law student could get it dismissed,
    The Military would have to bring up reasonable charges to get legal right to test the DNA..
    Case and Point: The DNA is not evidence in the sexual assault
    Military wants it to see if it is Larean child and ignores Maria conception date.
    Seems like your version matches that also

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 7:59 pm

  634. Mastiff’s, has it ever occured to you that the baby’s dna is/was important. If Laurean was the father, it would show that he lied when he stated he had “no sexual contact” with Maria. Therefore, in my opinion, it would give Maria credit. No, it wouldn’t prove rape but in my opinion I believe it would help move the case to a court martial and then let the jury decide if he was guilty or innocent.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 19, 2008 @ 8:04 pm

  635. Ann yes I have , however , I do think that right to give the babys DNA was for Maria to decide ,

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 8:07 pm

  636. Ann I also think Maria would not have, but I don’t think she wanted it to be Cesar’s

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 8:09 pm

  637. You Posted: If that is what they were doing , they had no legal right to the DNA in the “sexual assault” case as they stated that was their intent,,,,

    Huh! What?

    You Posted: However I do believe what you posted is exactly what they were doing. I had actually heard that and argued that the Military was more legal savvy than that,,,, they would not force irrelevant evidence in one case to prove another and that any 1st year Law student could get it dismissed,

    As usual you are not making any sense

    You Posted: The Military would have to bring up reasonable charges to get legal right to test the DNA.

    Onslow County gave them permission to do the second autopsy and to determine if the baby had oxygen in it’s lungs in order to determine if there would be an additional charge of murder, and also to determine the paternity of the baby. And the USMC had already conceeded to Onslow County’s jurisdiction inthe case.

    You Posted: Case and Point: The DNA is not evidence in the sexual assault
    Military wants it to see if it is Larean child and ignores Maria conception date.

    Another of your featherheaded comments.

    Youo Posted: Seems like your version matches that also

    As usual your posts have as many twists and turns as a roller coaster.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 19, 2008 @ 8:17 pm

  638. remember Mastiff claims to be a relative. Must be a blood relative. What u think Iguana? Seems personality disorder runs thick in Maria’s family.

    Comment by LMD — August 19, 2008 @ 8:24 pm

  639. Me to Iguana

    Your statement ” …the baby\’s DNA had proven that Laurean was the father, that evidence along with Lauterbach\’s testimony would have provided evidence to refute Laurean\’s denial of any \’sexual contact\’ with Lauterbach”
    Sorry, But I agree with what you are say concerning the Military’s Intent to use the DNA as evidence to prove that Cesar was lying about sex.
    However how is that legal, as you state to refute Maria testimony, well her testimony is that it was not Cesar Child..
    What case and charges are you talking about.
    Maria states the child is not a product of sexual assault (no legal right to test DNA)
    And why would the Military release 2 separate conception dates?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 8:36 pm

  640. DNA would not ‘proove’ rape but it would sure proove ‘adultry’ which is a no no in the MCorp

    Comment by LMD — August 19, 2008 @ 8:42 pm

  641. Thank You, That then is the charge to legally get the DNA, Not the rape. But the Military was using the Rape/sexual assult charge to get the DNA In my Book that is wrong
    LMD and Me to Iguana The 2 of you remind me of grade school and just mean

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 8:47 pm

  642. The military has never released two separate conception dates…it’s always been May 14. You are the one that has said the May 14 is inaccurate.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 19, 2008 @ 8:48 pm

  643. As I stated above as well mastiff’s, if the baby was in fact Cesar’s…no it wouldn’t prove rape or sexual assault but it would prove that he lied and in my opinion would give more credit to the sexual assault allegations. In my opinion, I think they could have gone onto a court martial and let the jury decide if he was innocent/guilty. JMO though…take it for what you will-which usually isn’t anything to you.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 19, 2008 @ 8:51 pm

  644. Ann No just me the one to disagree with
    I am referring to the press release that you obviously have read that says On June 27 the military calculated the conception date to be May 14th and the
    http://portal.jdnews.com/lauterbach Probable cause affidavit
    were the Military says the conception date was close proximity to the rape
    You and I both know the Military kneew the DNA had nothing to do with Maria case against Cesar

    I am aware this conversation is old, and probably need to stop it LOL

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 19, 2008 @ 8:57 pm

  645. Mastiff,

    I was not being mean,. You are so determined to show others that your opinion has to be correct, that you refuse to realize that you have made an error in reading the Probable Cause Affidavit.

    So please take a minute to READ CAREFULLY the Probable Cause Affidavit..

    Here is that section from the Affidavit:

    (I have put the part you misunderstood in caps, please check it with the link that you posted.

    [quote]Information from the NCIS revealed that Lauterbach was identified as pregnant in the months following the rape. Lauterbach’s DUE DATE was in close proximity to the timing of the reported sexual assault, leading investigators to believe that the baby may have been concieved from the sexual assault. The investigative plan may have included comparing DNA from the child (after birth) to Cesar Armando Laurean.[/quote]

    Note that on the Affidavit it DOES NOT state DATE OF CONCEPTION, it specifically states DUE DATE.

    Capt. Sutherland has stated that the DUE DATE was in close proximity to the timing of the reported sexual assault….

    The USMC and NCIS gave only the DATE OF CONCEPTION.:

    [quote]On June 27th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach is ill and seeks medical attention. She is administered a pregnancy test. The result of the test is positive with medical personnel estimating the CONCEPTION DATE as 14 May 2007. LCpl Lauterbach’s UVA calls NCIS to report the pregnancy. LCpl Lauterbach goes to NCIS to make a statement regarding her pregnancy and belief that Cpl Laurean is the father as a result of the alleged rape.[/quote]

    Much of the misunderstanding came from the fact Mary had already poisoned the well so to speak because she had told Onslow investigators that Maria was 8 months pregnant and due to deliver at any moment. Uncle Peter had already been onboard with his statement that she was having contractions so the birth was imminent. SB had already told the nation that she was due in early January.

    DATE OF CONCEPTION-the day she conceived..

    DUE DATE-the day she would expect her baby to be born.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 20, 2008 @ 3:22 am

  646. Mastiff please remember there is no rape on the record, there is only an allegation born from an affair with a married man after Maria found out he was married in my opinion. The military has repeatedly stated that Maria lacked credibility and changed her story.

    False rape allegations can yield horrible consequences when two careers are on the line and one party is married. It’s sad but true.

    Comment by #1fanofjustice — August 20, 2008 @ 8:27 am

  647. #1fanofjustice , I do see the Affidavits states close proximity to the due date of the alleged sexual assault. .. I see that it implies a conception date in April … or earlier. Maybe they think you can conceive a child 4 to 6 weeks after sex,,, I don’t know !
    Who know ,,, and when they say “Lauterbach’s DUE DATE was in close proximity to the timing of the reported sexual assault, leading investigators to believe that the baby may have been conceived from the sexual assault.”
    Maybe what they really meant was,, they want the DNA to see if Cesar was lying about have sex with Maria.
    Anyways I still think this would only speak to the stress both Maria and Cesar were under. It is not an acceptable reason to kill . But I do think along with a few other things, that it gives reason to investigate the was things were handled

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 20, 2008 @ 4:47 pm

  648. Actually neither ,,, I do not think the baby’s father is overly relevant to the case to tell you the truth… And I do not think Cesar would have been convicted of rape,, That was never my point
    I think what Maria and Cesar thought about who the baby’s father was, is very relevant… (cesar nor maria knew the results of the DNA when she was murdered and they both knew there was no credible rape Evidence in the rape trial, On rape Cesar was just about exonerated)
    The reason I choose to make issue of it here was (as I stated above) I did not think, more rules and regulation would stop rape … any mistakes that were made were simply human error without the benefit of Hindsight. …. I had some red flags on how the family was treated (thing I knew 1st hand) … I calked up the dates as a misunderstanding , … (1st appointment assumptions creating one date and as the pregnancy progressed then the date changed as it often does) When I see the 2 dates in print. Both after her death,,, Then I can begin to understand the case in congress.. And it sheds some light on what Cesar and Maria were experiencing .
    If NCIS brought up a straight forward investigation and obtained a court\military order to cease the babies DNA to prove\disprove Cesars statements , I would have no problem. But when they are saying that they are going to use it for the sexual allegations. and they know it is irrelevant to the case (If the Conception date does not coincide with the rape.)
    Then I have issues.
    If the Military thought it was important to try Cesar (this also says they were suspicious of him) They should have used the JAG system in a straight forward manner. Not pretend they were using it in the rape case.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 20, 2008 @ 8:21 pm

  649. Meant to say ” do not think the baby’s father is relevant to the rape case at all …Pregnacy does not prove rape and if the dates do not match , It only means that the baby is not a product of the rape nothing more and nothing less

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 20, 2008 @ 8:30 pm

  650. NCIS MAY have thought to use the baby’s DNA to compare to Cesar’s DNA, in order to present this at the Article 32 But you have to remember that both Lauterbach and Laurean had been ordered to stay away from one another. That was a direct order from their command. Should the baby’s DNA show that Laurean was it’s father, it would bring up several things. 1-Laurean was lying when he said he did not have sexual contact with Lauterbach. 2-Lauterbach and Laurean were in a sexual relationship. 3-Both Laurean and Lauterbach had disobeyed a direct order from their command not to have any contact with one another. 4-Lauterbach made a false report of rape that would ruin a man’s career and family.

    So the DNA was and is germane to the NCIS investiation. NCIS as well as JAG had jurisdiction in the case and since the DNA is evidence in their ongoing case, they had the right to the DNA samples of all parties involved. Even though NCIS could not find evidence to support the charges of rape/sexual assault, it does not mean that they could not charge either Laurean a lesser crime or Lauterbach with a crime. The DNA would be crucile to that case or cases.

    The Regimental Commander was determined to find out the truth in this matter.

    EXAMPLE Right now Onslow County believes that they have enough evidence to support a charge of first degree murder by Laurean,. If it turns out that they can not support the charge of first degree, they will use the same evidence to prove the lesser crime.

    Which two dates? The date of conception given at the USMC Press Conference was from her positive pregnancy test in June. Although there are witnesses who say that she was telling friends that she was pregnant as early as June 14th. The Naval personnel never changed the date..of conception .to them it was always May 14th.

    Later she changed her statement to say that she no longer believed that Laurean was the father of the baby, based on a gynocological exam. She said that she had the dates wrong. She said that she was seeing someone else.

    The Probable Cause Affidavit writtten ny Capt. Suthereland says that her DUE DATE was in close proximity. Since that would mean that the baby was due sometime around April 10th and that she was to have a 12 month pregnancy…it appears that Capt. Sutherland miswrote what information that NCIS provided.

    Now I am more inclined to believe USMC/NCIS’s statements at the January 15 Press Conference, than Capt. Sutherland secondhand data. Maybe he just mis-wrote that information, maybe he heard it wrong or read it wrong, either way he was not the direct source of that information.

    There was only ONE date of conception and that was May 14th, 2007. It was May 14th on June 27th and it was May 14 on Nov. 5th when Maria agreed with her doctors and she changed her statement to agree with her doctors.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 21, 2008 @ 12:53 am

  651. the DNA request was not to prove any rape. DNA could prove if CL and Maria had a sexual relationship…..meaning the USMC could press adultry charges along with many other charges to they were both disobeying MCorps orders. Mastiffs you hung up on this DNA thing. Does it bother you, Maria could have had multiple sex partners in such a short time frame? I am missing your point of dwelling on the DNA. It is simple, the MCorps needs it for other reasons than the rape accusation. ‘maybe’……she was seen with another married marine??Unlike the outside world, the MCorps still doesn’t accept adultry.

    Comment by LMD — August 21, 2008 @ 4:49 am

  652. Mastiff ~ Does Mary now concede there was a relationship and that she may not know about what was going on when Maria and Cesar were seeing each other?

    Sometimes I think you are able to distance yourself from the natural inclination to paint the victim in a glowing light, and other times, I think you can’t be objective. Your post above is the most objective I’ve seen you since starting to read here.

    My heart goes out to Maria and her baby, but I see Mary as a conniving woman who has used this situation to avoid dealing with the truth about the loss of Maria. I don’t believe Mary and her brother were acting in Maria’s best interest.

    Comment by #1fanofjustice — August 21, 2008 @ 7:26 am

  653. Why did Maria feel that she couldn’t tell the people closest to her that she was in a sexual relationship with another man during May 07 and got pregnant? Because she learned from the Mary, and maybe Uncle Pete, that when you get in a difficult position you lie your way out of it. I bet you the father of Gabriel is probably a married man, or was at the time he got Maria pregnant. I think she had unprotected sex with Gabriel’s father in May, and realized that she might have gotten pregnant. She panicked and called Mary and threw Cesar under the bus(maybe she had a bone to pick him for not leaving Chrissy for her) to cover herself in case she became pregnant. That way if she turned up pregnant, then she could say it was because of the rape. When she started the lie, I don’t think she counted on Mary pushing her to go to the Command to tell them about the rape. Probably all her life, Maria felt less than a full Lauterbach and therefore she did whatever she had to do to appease Mary in hopes of becoming less of an adopted distant cousin and more of a daughter Mary may have pushed Maria to report the rape as a means to determine if Maria was telling the truth or not. She probably did not realize that Maria had these Mommy issues and that her plan backfired on her. Maria went and reported the rape beause she felt that she had to for Mary.

    Maybe Maria felt she had to lie about the pregnancy because her unmarried sister gave birth to a boy a few months before and eventually gave him up for adoption . Who knows what family dynamics went on regarding that situation? Maybe Maria saw how bad telling the truth was and decided to try the lie route to make her pregnancy not her fault. To make herself a victim in Mary’s eyes.

    It is apparent that this family does not know how deal with truth, thus Mary’s trip to Congress. Deflect, deflect, deflect . . . .

    Comment by Anonymous — August 21, 2008 @ 8:48 am

  654. Mastiffs, we don’t know if NCIS was going to use the DNA to pursue any other charges against Maria and Cesar. If you have seen a quote by NCIS or the USMC stating such please show me. I think the pushing of the case to continue was that of the rape allegation whereinas the commander wanted to see the investigation to the end. I believe he wasn’t going to allow the rape investigation/case to be dropped by NCIS because they couldn’t prove rape. To me that tells me that the command took Marias allegations seriously. I have never seen anything official that states that the military was going to use the DNA for other charges aside from the rape case. So if you have Mastiffs, please show me.

    The only writings I have seen on possibly bringing forth other charges against Maria and Cesar come from the comments here. Nothing more than thoughts and theories, to include my thoughts and theories. Nothing official nor concrete. So, for all we know the Art. 32 would’ve ended the rape allegation and nothing more would have happened. We just don’t know if the military was going to use that DNA for further charges. They very well could have intended to but they could’ve very well have not intended to. Any further charges, if any, would’ve been an entirely new case I believe. Derived from the rape case but not related to the rape. Again, my thoughts.

    Of course NCIS was suspicious of Cesar. They would’ve been suspicious of ANYONE that was named as a rapist in an allegation. Had they not then that meant they dismissed the allegation. They didn’t dimiss Marias allegations. NCIS investigates to prove or dis-prove what’s at hand so of course they are going to be suspicious of the people involved.

    So in as far as the baby’s due date etc. I have seen two dates. Marys date as she knew from Maria and the official doctors dates. Hmmm, who probably has the most medical knowledge in obtaining a “true” due date. Think I’ll go with the medicals dates. I think that when Maria first found out she was pregnant she may have not remembered the dates of her last menstrual cycle or may have missed a cycle which may have lead her to believe that the baby may have been Cesars. This early on in a pregnancy the doctor(s) base the conception date and due date by using the info given to them by their patient which would most likely lead Maria to believe that she was due sooner. It wasn’t until medical was able to run the tests to pin point her conception/due date that Maria knew “she” had confused the dates. I don’t read much into this honest mistake by Maria. I do think that that baby played a big part in what happened on the day Maria was killed. Heck, we don’t even know if Cesar was aware that the baby was not his. We don’t know how much he was told by NCIS.

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 9:33 am

  655. I wonder if Maria’s natural family (I’m not specifically talking about the parents, but maybe natural maternal grandparents) has ill feelings towards Mary for not protecting Maria? Is this part of the reason why Mary has never publicly stated that she could have done things differently in regard to dealing with Maria’s lying problem, when Maria was under 18? Is this why she is pushing so hard to publicly place blame on the USMC for not protecting Maria? Is it her intent for the natural family to see her (Mary) as a pure victim with no accountability for the path that led to the tragedy?

    I ponder these questions because I’m trying to understand why Mary felt compelled to go to a Congressional hearing and explicitly state that her daughter was raped, with no corroborated evidence to support that statement. She is basing what she said in Congress on heresay from Maria, who had an issue with compulsive lying. Mary should follow Vic’s lead and stay out of the limelight. I don’t believe that trip to Congress was to benefit the legacy of Maria, but rather for the benefit of Mary trying to absolve herself of the mistakes she made with Maria.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 21, 2008 @ 9:56 am

  656. The family’s confusion? How about the nations confusion? If the family is confused then why is Mary going before Congress and the World to accuse the USMC of not taking her daughter’s sexual assault allegations seriously? Laurean was never charged with that crime. There was never enough creditable evidence to support Lauterbach’s claims. The USMC spent over seven months trying to find out the truth from fiction in Lauterbach’s allegations. Look at the man hours that were invested by the USMC-NCIS-JAG trying to untangle the web of deceit that Lauterbach had woven. And today there is still more evidence of an ongoing relationship than there is proof of her claims.

    And it is very deceitful to go before Congress the Nation and the World accusing the USMC of ignoring her daughter’s allegations. To deceive the American public and embarrass the nation before the world based on allegations that were never proven is unacceptable.

    Both of the Congresspersons involved should be ashamed of themselves. Here we have two Congresspersons elected to make the laws that govern this nation and they use an unsubstationated sexual assault case, to promote their legislation to address the troubling problem of sexual assault in the military. Seriously, we have two Congresspersons who make the laws of this nation who are using Lauterbach as the poster child for sexual assault victims in the military and yet it has never been proven that she was sexually assaulted. It was never proven that she was harassed as a result of her claims of sexual assault.

    To make the actions of Congresspersons even more deplorable is that they have brought an active case of alleged murder before the Nation and the World and jeopardized the fair and impartial trial of the man accused of the crime. To be indirectly labeled by Congress as the perpetrator of a sexual assault and murder without the due process afforded us by the Constitution is unacceptable. Citizens expect more from their Congressional representatives than to base their decisions on faulty information and testimony.

    This may seem like a harsh assessment of the facts, but the UCMJ was amended by Congress on October 1, 2007. Nothing has changed since that time. One might wonder why Lauterbach didn’t contact her Congressman to intercede for her in this case. According to her family she was in constant contact with them numerous times a day and she went home on leave several times during the investigations of her allegations. And yet, they never questioned the investigation until she vanished? Seemingly they were satisfied with the investigation right up until that time. Why didn’t they contact their Congressperson if they had questions? Why didn’t they encourage Lauterbach to contact her Congressperson if she felt that she wasn’t being believed? Yes, citizens have questions too!

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 21, 2008 @ 1:50 pm

  657. “Bravo” Me to Iguana!

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 2:11 pm

  658. Nehi Concerning Maria and the initial due dates … Thank you… I have been stating that all along… giving some reasonable excuse for the 2 dates… However if the Date is May 14th, (for sure, then that creates a problem with the NCIS’s statement after the death) If 4400 is wrong and the dates moved to earlier date then , all of the Military statements become consistent.
    Either way, I think (from NCIS statements , not Maria’s or Mary’s) that there is something a miss . Giving some credence to an investigation .
    The end of the statement being “ leading investigators to believe that the baby may have been conceive from a sexual assault” I also go back and forth remembering that the Press release was carefully worded in the Initial press release , ON June 27th we calculated a due date of May 14th it could mean that on July 5th the date changed . If that is the Case the Marines did not lie, however did not release a complete the story. (Now all who think that believing the May 14th date is to prove rape ,,, I think you are wrong it can only prove sex… However if the pregnancy due date is Jan then to me it defends the Military’s statements.
    The argument that the date never changed causes me to suspect a BIG problem.
    I personally disagree with the theory (not every bodies) that Maria had so much power that the NCIS took her word on the due dates in the investigation,,,
    Concerning your statement “we don’t know if NCIS was going to use the DNA or even why they wanted it . “ But if we take them at their word, they were going to use it in the rape case .. and yes, I should have been more clear… If the pregnancy can not be the result of the rape , then I suspect they were going to use it to prove\disprove a sexual encounter between Maria and Cesar.
    Bottom line , I do not subscribe to the theory, that the purpose of the case before congress is about Maria\Cesar … I think it is about the process in which Rape Allegations are handled.. and remembering rape allegations are NOT Rape Convictions (it would also entail the handling of false allegations) . Therefore the guilt or innocents of Cesar becomes irrelevant
    I also do not think the legal firm representing the Lauterbach’s would have taken the case if they did not feel there was enough evidence to win… Nor do I think the congress men\woman would have stood behind the Lauterbach if there was not more to come.
    I was very disappointed that the Marines did not show to testify,, they could have answered a lot of question but I think they felt they would publicly open Pandora’s box

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 7:10 pm

  659. And Yes I am arguing both sides, why would that be, I guess hoping for info that would clear it up. I thought 4400 had that info… but after thinking it through, Maybe not he may have just ssen the initial release.
    Anyways Thanks Again

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 7:14 pm

  660. Hi Iguana! – I’m not agreeing or diagreeing with your post, you make some good points. Just wondering exactly how many manhours were invested by MC/NCIS/JAG in this investigation. How many times, how often, and for how long did Maria meet with MC/NCIS/JAG regarding this investigation? Same questions regarding both her victim advocates. I’m not even looking to touch on the nature of those meetings and/or what was or wasn’t discussed.

    Except for the little that has been revealed, I don’t know how anyone can draw any conclusions about this 7 month investigation without heavily relying on the “ASSUME” word. Do we all know what the “ASSUME” word does? Make an ……….! However, I do respect everyone’s right to their opinions and theories.

    I’m not pointing fingers (in any direction) and haven’t, yet, found enough fact to draw any conclusions.

    Comment by R356 — August 21, 2008 @ 7:24 pm

  661. The Lauterbach’s lawyer took the case for publicity purposes. He is using the Lauterbachs.

    The Congresspersons are idiots. Obviously, they have not done their homework. If I were them, I’d fire my staffers for not keeping me informed of facts, such as Cesar was never convicted of the rape and there is no evidence to convict of him of the rape, even before Maria’s murder. The only thing that exists is the hearsay of a compulsive liar, who unfortunately is no longer with us. Do they even know about Maria and Mary’s lies? Heck, Mary couldn’t even tell them the truth about the birth order of her grandchildren. She is too ashamed of the birth of her first grandchild to even claim him in front of Congress. Pathetic!!!!!!

    What a hodge podge of dopes! No wonder there were some officials who opted not to attend this witch trial. They probably didn’t want to have to drag Maria’s name through the mud by presenting facts about her tendencies as a person. Unlike her adopted mother, who has no problem doing so.

    I bet Vic is disgusted with Mary. That is why we probably don’t see him in public supporting her.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 21, 2008 @ 8:01 pm

  662. Okay Mastiffs would you please explain to me why Mary has legal representation? What is she trying to “win” exactly? Personally I don’t htink the congress man/woman didn’t have time to review the issues in depth. I don’t think the Marines were invited to attend. I beleive it was DOD. Personally I wait for the day that NCIS is able to reveal what is what in the case. I don’t think that will happen as the military will not embarass one of it’s members or their family. There is no Pandoras box to open Mastiffs. The only box to open is that containing Maria and Cesars statements.

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 8:03 pm

  663. Lauterbach’s mother, Mary, blamed the military for being slow to act, denying her daughter’s request for transfer and not properly dealing with the sexual assault complaint – even after her daughter was punched in the face.
    ———–
    Above quote is from an article released today. So I see now that Mary is calling the alleged rape a sexual assault. Also see that she thinks that Marias request for a transfer was denied. That isn’t a fact. MARIA NEVER REQUESTED A TRANSFER. Can’t wait for Mary’s next words. If this doesn’t downplay an actual rape victims stance by putting out probable false allegations out there I don’t know what does.

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 8:08 pm

  664. How do we know those statements are not a fact

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 8:17 pm

  665. My point is that there was a rape case that Mary was pushing initially. She’s now changed it to sexual assault. The sexual assault we don’t know about as there never was an investigation on that. Why the sudden change in acts, not that I’m saying that either is not a serious act mind you. What does Mary now think or know that made her change her words from rape to assault? Marias lack of request for a transfer was addressed in the Marines answer to the Congressman. She never requested a transfer point blank.

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 8:26 pm

  666. “Marias lack of request for a transfer was addressed in the Marines answer to the Congressman. She never requested a transfer point blank.”

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 8:26 pm ”

    Maria probably told her mom she requested a transfer, when she never did. It is is Maria hearsay that Mary has conveniently chosen to accept as fact.

    Is Mary related to Cindy Anthony? They seem to come from a similar pod.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 21, 2008 @ 8:37 pm

  667. Anonymous I stand by my red flags as described above ,it does not matter what the conception date was the fact they released 2 dates.
    Nehi Your right on the DOD, and the Military would not be there to answer specifics about the case…
    I guess it is only about the process only, What do you think of the other testimonies?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 8:45 pm

  668. It appears the Laurean defense team has joined the discussion here.

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 8:46 pm

  669. You keep saying “they released 2 due date” mastiffs. Who’s they?

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 8:49 pm

  670. Nehi, On Legal rep. as I remember they were not getting any details from the Military and they needed an attorney, the stories they were getting were uninformed at best
    They wanted to know as we do.
    I bet the clearest mind set can come from Turners Questions to the Marines. It a least gives us an understanding of what question that has not been answered

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 8:50 pm

  671. Walker, Are you deep in the Heart of Texas? Like El Paso?

    “In the eyes of a ranger,
    The unsuspecting stranger,
    Had better know the truth of wrong from right,

    ‘Cause the eyes of a ranger are upon you,
    Any wrong you do, he’s gonna see,

    When you’re in Texas, look behind you,

    ‘Cause that’s where the rangers gonna be”. :)

    Comment by Go Walker, Go Walker — August 21, 2008 @ 8:50 pm

  672. Don’t you dare put me in the category of Laureans defense team walker! I’ve been respectful in my comments to all. I see the case for what it is nothing more or less.

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 8:51 pm

  673. metoiguana…Great post about the Congresspersons. I couldn’t agree more. I was outraged, too, when Mary first went to Congress, and the second time was even more devastating. In fact, my concern was, and is, “can there actually be a trial now that Cesar has been found by Congress itself to be guilty of rape and murder?” Using Maria’s case as an “example” of the Marine Corp not doing enough is, in itself, saying that Cesar is guilty.

    Comment by justice4all — August 21, 2008 @ 8:53 pm

  674. Nehi LOL: They are those who have acess to the medical reports Miltary NCIS Bothwere at press conference and NCIS confirms to Onslow County

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 8:53 pm

  675. Okay mastiffs, I understand now why Mary has a legal team. I was under the assumption she need legal representation for her case in front of our government.

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 8:55 pm

  676. Nehi LOL: They are those who have acess to the medical reports Miltary NCIS Bothwere at press conference and NCIS confirms to Onslow County

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 8:53 pm

    Sorry, you lost me mastiffs. How does this fit into whom gave the 2 due dates?

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 8:57 pm

  677. Nehi Sorry I thought you were joking and that we had discussed this Looking for link will post asap

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 9:00 pm

  678. Does anybody remember the post where someone was going to write to the Congresspersons to let them know that they might be backing a losing horse?

    Comment by justice4all — August 21, 2008 @ 9:00 pm

  679. I remember that post justice4all. Why do you ask?

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 9:04 pm

  680. Nehi Sorry I thought you were joking and that we had discussed this Looking for link will post asap

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 9:00 pm

    I wasn’t joking lol. You don’t have to post a link I just wanted to know exactly who reported 2 due dates.

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 9:07 pm

  681. the conception date to be May 14th and the Intial Press Conference. And at
    http://portal.jdnews.com/lauterbach Probable cause affidavit It states the NCIS Confirms the pregnancy was in close proximity to the sexual assault leading investigators to believe that the baby may have been conceive from a sexual assault”
    One Date May 14th the other date Lake April til Mid March
    This cause me to question how this case was handles

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 9:07 pm

  682. OOPS meant Late March Mid April

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 9:08 pm

  683. Thanks for going through the trouble mastiffs. The affidavit contains alot of errors, innocent errors I’m sure. Again, what does close proximity mean to them compared to what we think. To me I think of it as mid April time frame to maybe 1st part of May. That’s just me and my proximity may not be the same as others. I think that part is up to interpetation.

    Comment by Nehi — August 21, 2008 @ 9:12 pm

  684. Nehi understood, I disagree , it does cause me to questions, could be nothing but I would like the answer
    What date did medical show and if May 14th why were they going to take the DNA for the rape case?
    I don’t think we have the answers yet just speculation

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 9:25 pm

  685. Nehi The date of oonception would have to be 6 to 8 weeks earlier if the rape was in late March or early May,,, not close at all. I would agree with you if there wa just a few weeks difference

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 9:28 pm

  686. OOOPS LOLMid March or early April

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 9:29 pm

  687. As much as I like riddles, Go Walker, yours comes across as a threat.

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 9:32 pm

  688. walker,

    You must have never watched the TV show Walker Texas Ranger…

    What Anonymous posted upthread is the words to the theme song for the show as sung by Chuck Norris.

    The show comes on Monday thru Friday at 7 p.m. ET on the Hallmark Channel. If you don’t believe me then tune in tomorrow evening and check it out.

    Comment by Walker Texas Ranger — August 21, 2008 @ 9:47 pm

  689. You are correct.. I have never watched that show.

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 9:51 pm

  690. Walker, that is about the funniest thing I read all day. The theme from Walker, Texas Ranger is threatening. LMAO.

    Comment by Thanks for the laugh — August 21, 2008 @ 9:56 pm

  691. Since I have never watched the show, I have no reference for interpretation of the lyrics. Sorry.

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 9:58 pm

  692. [quote]the conception date to be May 14th and the Intial Press Conference. And at
    http://portal.jdnews.com/lauterbach Probable cause affidavit It states the NCIS Confirms the pregnancy was in close proximity to the sexual assault leading investigators to believe that the baby may have been conceive from a sexual assault”
    One Date May 14th the other date Lake April til Mid March
    This cause me to question how this case was handles

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 9:07 pm [/quote]

    SSDD

    The USMC stated in their 1-15-2008 Press Conference that the DATE OF CONCEPTION was May 14, 2007 It was calculated on June 27, 2007 after Lauterbach had a positive pregnancy test. Lauterbach agreed with the DATE OF CONCEPTION on 11-5-2007 after a gynocological exam at her last medical exam.

    DATE OF CONCEPTION the date she became pregnant from a sexual encounter.

    Probable Cause Affidavit states that Luterbach’s DUE DATE was in close proximity to the timing of the reported sexual assault.

    DUE DATE is the date the baby is born…so by your calculations the baby shold have been born Late March or Mid April

    [quote]OOPS meant Late March Mid April

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 9:08 pm[/quote]

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 21, 2008 @ 10:08 pm

  693. Thanks, Nehi. I wondered if the letter was ever written and what the reply was. I have never received a reply to the letter I send way in the beginning when Mary first enlisted Congressman Turner’s assistance. All I can say is that with “assistance” like that, Mary might well wish she hadn’t gone quite so public. I am glad that the MC people didn’t show up for the public discussions. The good Congresspersons must have forgotten that this is an ongoing case and that the accused has not yet been tried in a court of law!!!! I wonder if Congressman Turner plans to take over the entire proceedings, appoint a special prosecutor, and have Congress try Cesar? LOL

    Comment by justice4all — August 21, 2008 @ 10:13 pm

  694. I believe there is a ‘formula’ for calculating due (to be born) dates. However, a good rule of thumb is: about 40 weeks from conception.

    Comment by justice4all — August 21, 2008 @ 10:17 pm

  695. Have we heard any of the details of the NCIS investigation into the rape case? What exactly did they do in those 8 months following Maria’s rape allegation? Did they interview anybody? Just wondering as neither NCIS/JAG/ or the MC didn’t really address that in their press conference following the discovery of Maria’s body in Laurean’s backyard.

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 10:23 pm

  696. Me to Iguana I do think your right on her due date , but I am still open for a change, If she conceived Mid May why did the NCIS state they were wanting the DNA
    If you finish the quote it states “leading the investigators to believe that the baby may have been conceive from a sexual assault”
    What is your opinion on that?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 10:26 pm

  697. Walker they state in Nov they did question Cesar, but it is interesting they also state it was after they felt there was no case
    I think they interviewed Maria 2 times

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 10:29 pm

  698. mastiffs, just a thought, could there possibly have been more than one allegation of sexual assault, and we haven’t heard anything other than the Cesar one?

    Comment by justice4all — August 21, 2008 @ 10:29 pm

  699. ustice4all
    I am sure of it

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 10:31 pm

  700. Yes, I am sure they probably interviewed both Maria and Laurean. What else did they do in their investigation? Just wondering.

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 10:31 pm

  701. Nehi, the poster I referred to was Caring1, and I’ve included the last couple of lines of his post. Wonder how he got on. At the very least it will have given Turner’s and Harmon’s staffers a reason to start wondering. I HOPE they gave it serious thought.

    “…….Harman and Turner can both use an intervention. I’m sitting down to give it to them now.

    Good day.

    Comment by Caring1 — August 1, 2008 @ 7:02 am “

    Comment by justice4all — August 21, 2008 @ 10:38 pm

  702. mastiffs, it is about all I can think of that would tie up all those loose ends. However, I cringe to see and hear Mary using the Cesar/Maria case as a pivotal point in revising legislation to protect servicemembers who have reported cases of sexual assault. I feel so bad for the family that this may just reflect poorly on Maria. I am convinced that the MC and NCIS and any other “official” body of investigators will not testify at any Congressional hearing whatsoever. I have to say that the MC and NCIS have both done a great job of keeping confidential and respectful all its disclosures about Maria. Not one word of disrespect has been uttered. The ONLY source of citicism has come from Mary and Uncle Peter. I just don’t think it was the very best to mention anything about Maria’s early years or her parentage or even the lamp/brother or petty cash incident. None of us would have even known about all that had not Mary and Uncle Peter spoken of it. I understand Uncle Peter is said to have spoken somewhere about Maria’s birth parents, implying that they were very young, although they weren’t under 18. I can’t imagine how I would hold up under such a dreadful situation as the Lauterbach’s have been called upon to bear, but making everything so very public can’t bring Maria back, but it could prevent real justice.

    Comment by justice4all — August 21, 2008 @ 10:49 pm

  703. Would you have preferred that they paint a rose-colored picture of her, Justice?

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 10:55 pm

  704. On October 18, 2007, NCIS recommends no disciplinary action be initiated on the alleged rape until forensic evidence DNA can be retrieved from the child. Cpl Laurean denied having any sexual contact with LCpl Lauterbach and this was believed to be significant evidence.
    http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/nc…01-15-0028.html

    The DNA of the baby would be significant evidence because Laurean denied any sexual contact.

    The DNA evidence at an Article 32 along with other evidence would have given the Judge Advocate a better picture of who was telling the truth. NCIS wanted the Artticle 32 to be scheduled after the baby was born. The baby was due approximately February 4-6, 2008. If the baby was deemed full term and the DNA and Laurean was found to be the father..then it would show a sexual relationship, since the Due Date for a baby conceived on the reported sexual assault days would have been January 4-5, 2008.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 21, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

  705. Would you prefer Maria to be a saint with a white gown and veil on, walker?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 21, 2008 @ 11:06 pm

  706. Hi Walker, I just don’t think there was any reason at all to mention any of that stuff. It didn’t really pertain to her missing status, and it doesn’t help with the ongoing case, either.

    Comment by justice4all — August 21, 2008 @ 11:10 pm

  707. That does not rule out sexual assault of a lesser degree. SA Grafton stated that Laurean asked for sex and Maria said “NO”, He asked the second time and she again said “NO”.

    That is a red light …if you continue to ask for sex, after the other person says “NO” it is considered sexual assault. In this case Laurean allegedly continued to pressure Lauterbach into a sexual encounter. Even though he alledgedly stopped when she told him to stop..it is still considered to be a form of sexual assault.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 21, 2008 @ 11:12 pm

  708. No, I would not, Anonymous.

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 11:33 pm

  709. So, it appears we know very little about the investigation that NCIS/JAG/ or the MC conducted regarding the rape allegation. I would like to know more about that.

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 11:38 pm

  710. Actually, Justice, according to some people here, what Mary and Peter said about Maria has everything to do with the case. I don’t think I agree, but many people have taken their statements and run with all kinds of comments about her character and the rest of the family’s character.

    Danged if you do, and danged if you don’t.

    Comment by walker — August 21, 2008 @ 11:42 pm

  711. I know, Walker, there isn’t a doubt that Maria had her share of faults and failings, but I am still wondering why Mary and Uncle Peter needed to bring out the old skeletons at all.

    Comment by justice4all — August 22, 2008 @ 3:36 am

  712. Walker, I think what I mean is that they weren’t called upon at all to make any comment about some of the personal stuff they trotted out for public inspection.

    Comment by justice4all — August 22, 2008 @ 3:40 am

  713. Iguana, I hope you can find an island to put all the guilty on. That thing is going to be full of men and women.

    With an attitude like yours, no wonder women can’t get justice half the time and men are prematurely judged. Good luck in life with all your personal interactions and intimate relationships. Please put a sign on your head. LOL.

    Comment by #1fanofjustice — August 22, 2008 @ 6:57 am

  714. “ustice4all
    I am sure of it”

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 21, 2008 @ 10:31 pm

    So Mastiff are you saying that she was raped by another person or Cesar in May?

    Comment by Confused by Mastiff — August 22, 2008 @ 8:00 am

  715. Walker-

    Are you part of Maria’s family? You seem to get notably upset when we rehash what Maria’s mother and uncle put out there to the public? Obviously, Mary and Uncle Pete thought it was relevant?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 22, 2008 @ 8:06 am

  716. Mastiff’s is so hell bent on saying the military has lied all based on a probable cause affadavit that says Mary is Maria’s step mother and other affadavits that lead one to believe Christina knew on January 10th about Maria being dead but really not knowing until just before Cesar took off. And Mastiff’s just completely ignored my response about my email to Capt. Sutherland who said based on what he learned from medical records there is no indication the military lied about Maria’s due dates. Talking and trying to explain stuff to Mastiff’s is like trying to talk to a brick wall. As I said before, Cesar said no sexual contact at all. Maria says there was-one consensual and one allegedly rape. If the baby turned out to be Cesar’s…no it wouldn’t prove rape or sexual assault but it would give credit to what Maria said and it would discredit anything Cesar said. It would show that he lied about it. And I think based on that, they would have enough to say “let’s take it to a court martial.” Of course, all my opinion.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 22, 2008 @ 9:24 am

  717. Iguana, as far as Cesar “pressuring” Maria, I doubt he stood over her with a club. I THINK, just my opinion, that it might have been more like nudges and winks and giggles and “hey, good looking, how about it?” stuff and when she said no the first time he might have tried again, and even taken her by the hand and gone to wherever it was he said they wouldn’t get caught. However, he DID stop when she said to. If it was as I have described, I am not sure how “assaultive” it might be, legally, since they had a prior physical relationship. BUT, if he was harsh, domineering, threatening, physically hurting her, jerking her hand and arm to the “safe place,” and so forth, I would say that could certainly be considered “assault.” In fact, if you yell, scream, threaten, shake your fist, etc. at ANYBODY you can be charged with assault. Apparently, cussing out other drivers and making “threatening or obscene gestures” can also be classed as assault. If you have ever had the bad luck to be harrangued by a person with a mental or emotional disorder, it can be assaultive to the ears and thoroughly terrifying. All of this is not to “excuse” Cesar in any way, just trying to think about it and make sense of it. There is an old saying, “you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar” and since Cesar (allegedly) was trying to gain something from Maria, he would be more likely, in my opinion, to try the honey tactic than the vinegar one. What do you think?

    Comment by justice4all — August 22, 2008 @ 12:03 pm

  718. Ann, that Article 32 was going to be the deciding factor. I really think the CO probably suspected that it wouldn’t be easy but was determined to get those two under oath and find out who said and did what. Just my opinion, though, but it certainly fits the info that we have. If the MC hadn’t taken Maria seriously it would never have gone as far as it did. And, “taking Maria seriously,” can have several meanings. It could mean that they were SURE something bad had happened to her; it could mean they were skeptical about it but wanted to make sure that she ‘put up or shut up.” at an Article 32, or any number of other things, BUT, it looks to me that they heard her loud and clear, and wanted to get the whole thing straightened out once and for all. I somehow have the feeling that an Article 32 hearing might not exactly be a “victim” and “perpetrator” type of situation as much as it might be a “fact finding” session where everything is brought out and examined and a decision is made as to just what happened and what to do about it.
    Is that something like how it works?

    Comment by justice4all — August 22, 2008 @ 12:11 pm

  719. #1fanofjustice

    That isn’t my idea! That is part of the current sexual assault prevention from the DOD. I think they are trying to establish warning lines within the military that should not be crossed. And if it is crossed it can be reported as sexual assault..

    Not my idea at all. SA Grafton said that the fact that Laurean continued to ask for sex, after she told him NO it was enough to warrant a sexual assault investigation.

    This does make me wonder what further laws these Congresspersons want to promote to prevent sexual assault in the military. Don’t you?

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 22, 2008 @ 2:17 pm

  720. Justice,

    The presurring comes from him not taking “NO” for an answer. This would be considered sexual assault by DOD standards. If these type of “warnings” are already in place then I question what the Congresspersons have in mind to stop sexual assault in the military.

    And if these are in place for military than why not make them the standard for the rest of the nation? Of course the Commander in Chief of the military from 1993-2000 didn’t really set a good and proper example for the military to follow, neither have several Congressperson’s….and may have not been caught. More a matter of practicing what you preach. LOL

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 22, 2008 @ 2:25 pm

  721. Iguana – your points are very well taken. I’m not any kind of authority on the law (civilian or military), but I thought the standard is, and has been, that no means NO. Certainly these situations aren’t always clear cut and quite often come down to one’s word against another’s as to what really took place and from whose point of view. This is what makes this such a tough issue to sort out.

    At any rate, I wish Congress the best in their endeavours. I truly hope they can make some improvements that will help someone out down the road, regardless of what prompted this process. The reality is, they are going to do this whether any one here likes it or not.

    Comment by R356 — August 22, 2008 @ 3:03 pm

  722. I think that information was in an email reply that Ann received from Capt. Sutherland, Mastiffs.

    Comment by R356 — August 22, 2008 @ 6:28 pm

  723. R356
    Thanks

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 6:37 pm

  724. justice4all Concerning your statement “Not one word of disrespect has been uttered. The ONLY source of citicism has come from Mary and Uncle Peter.”
    Actually they didn’t , If you remember, the press took statements that were in the police report and questioned the family about them. Those statements were perceived by the Lauterbach to be private and confidential and telling the police only the positives would have caused confusion in their efforts to find Maria Mary did not expose her daughter to the world. The Press did. I bet the 1st question from the police would have been, does she have any enemies? What would you say? Would you lie or would you tell the police the truth.

    Comments on how the Marines have been so Nice about Maria. They throw out small comments (do not share the detail) but it does cause people to think the worst. Grafton actually says she thought Maria was creditable. However the date change of the pregnancy Maria cause Maria to say it can not be part of the rape,,, How is that unreasonable?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 7:30 pm

  725. confused by Mastiffs
    “ustice4all
    I am sure of it”
    So Mastiff are you saying that she was raped by another person or Cesar in May?
    No I miss read, I am sure of 2 sexual charges not just the 1

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 7:32 pm

  726. Mastiffs where is that 2nd charge, I’ve only seen one. Is there another charge after Marias reported April alleged rape?

    The Marines throw out small comments to make people think the worse? Give me one example please.

    Comment by Nehi — August 22, 2008 @ 7:45 pm

  727. Hi Mastiffs,

    I think everyone took Friday night off. I, for one see and fully agree with, your feeling of how Maria’s personal issues came into the public eye. It’s important to keep straight not only who said what, but also when and under what circumstances it was said. In the media flurry of January, I can easily see how hard it was to keep that in order.

    I also agree with your view regarding the statements from MC/NCIS/JAG (I lump them together as “the military”). There were several dangling comments made, by various officials at various times, that left the impression that everything wrong with this case is due to Maria’s inconsistency or credibility. After all, everything they did was done perfectly(according to the official record), so it had to be Maria. Who else? That’s certainly possible, but a little too convenient for me to be convinced, yet. I don’t believe there is conspiracy and/or lying, perhaps just confusion at points.

    Comment by R356 — August 22, 2008 @ 7:58 pm

  728. Thanks and I do agree, on the conspiracy , I think it was panic after the murder is what we see from the Military, When they stated that they knew nothing until Jan 7th or 9th, It just tells me that the Lauterbach had absolutely no audience with them.
    As I stated above , I felt they had missed judged Cesar (they did not think he was capable of this type of threat) and they just simply were not worried.

    I bet Mary and Maria including Gabriel wish they had that much control/

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 8:31 pm

  729. You might find this article interesting, a quote that gives some insight to what we are not hearing is in the press “Lauterbach’s mother explained in great detail the warning signs that Laurean was a danger to her daughter and claimed that all these signs were ignored by the Marine Corps. “ I hope that open up the transcripts some day. I am sure the congressman did their homework. We say there questions and I bet they have some answers.
    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080801_sexual_assault_in_the_military_a_dod_cover_up/
    I liked the article. It really puts into perspective what is going on in congress, and confirms it is not just about Maria. If Maria’s death can be used to help 1 woman, get free of a perpetrator, or just let other victims know that are not alone… Then Good For them
    I also have to wonder , why. When so many other cases are involved.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 9:04 pm

  730. OOPSS we saw the quetions not say

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 9:05 pm

  731. I also have to wonder , why. When so many other cases are involved. did they not get a hearing before congress earlier.
    Need to read before I submit LOL
    and OOPSS we saw the questions not say

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 9:08 pm

  732. You know, mastiffs, I am in the process of reading that excellent link you posted and wanted to say what I have thought from the very beginning….that is, Maria looks so very like Mary that iit’s uncanny. That chin, and the way of holding her head. Quite remarkable. Wouldn’t it be amazing to find that Maria is linked up to Mary through both her maternal and paternal lines?

    Comment by justice4all — August 22, 2008 @ 9:22 pm

  733. Just They are related

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 9:52 pm

  734. Justice in lue of this blogs assumptions I should be more clear. They are related however very distant

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 10:06 pm

  735. To answer an earlier question, no I am not related to the Lauterbachs nor do I know them or anyone they know. I have been following this case from the beginning, before they found Maria and her baby’s bodies, as something didn’t ring true to me about this case. It still doesn’t and so I continue to follow the case.

    As to the second question, I find it somewhat distasteful to see her family being subjected to some of the things I read here. As to being ‘notably upset’, that is your perception, not mine.

    Comment by walker — August 22, 2008 @ 10:21 pm

  736. Nehi, sorry I did not mean to miss your question
    the 2 sexual assualts are confirmed \reported at http://www.jdnews.com/articles/lauterbach_54386___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html
    you seem to have an interest in this case and I find it interesting that you were unaware . we hear very little about the 2nd assult.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 22, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

  737. Walker, I’m with you there. For me, too, something just feels like it is running in the background. I am cautious because everyone deserves a fair shake. What I dislike about hearing too much about Maria’s human weaknesses is that it would be fatal to “put the victim on trial” as the saying goes. Nothing justifies killing someone. Two someones, actually. It doesn’t matter what Maria was or wasn’t, we are interested in seeing justice done because we just can’t have people taking the law into their own hands and dispensing with others! I am not sure it was premeditated, really. After all, who would plan to do such a deed in his own house, and put the bodies in his own yard? Also, if it was premeditated he probably would have had all the barbeque pit items ready to hand. Cement blocks, some sand probably, shovels, even pickaxes to go down a bit deeper. Also, wrapping her in a quilt seems downright tender when one considers Holley Wimunc’s situation. I suppose it’s a matter of degree. If it was premeditated it could have been targeted for a different location but something prevented that, or it could all have happened on the spur of the moment.

    Comment by justice4all — August 23, 2008 @ 1:19 am

  738. Not sure what you are suggesting, Justice.

    Comment by walker — August 23, 2008 @ 1:37 am

  739. Or maybe the comforter was used to transport the body to the backyard.

    Comment by walker — August 23, 2008 @ 1:40 am

  740. Justice, If you are interested in Maria’s relationship to Mary, pull up Maria’s death certificate at the Onslow County Record of Deeds and look at what is listed as her county of birth. It can lead you to a trail of records and info in the public domain. The mysterious female name from the incident report is relevant to this search and so is information provided by Diana LeVan.

    Maria’s natural father is probably not biologically related to Mary. But maybe you have found something that others have not.

    I have no doubt when the Lauterbach’s took custody of the girls in 1989 that they had the best of intentions for them. There was a post from one of Maria’s childhood friends that claims that Maria didn’t feel an equal to Mary’s biological children (paraphrasing here). In my opinion, I think she probably struggled most of her life with this perception. There is a post on another site where someone claims to have heard Mary belittle Maria at age 9 and tell her that she would never amount to anything, always be a burden and that people would never like her (paraphrasing again). Yikes if this is true! Could this be why Maria was reluctant to tell her family the truth about the paternity of Gabriel and used rape as an excuse? Fear of disappointing Mary.. Mary probably has high expectations from her children regarding their staunch Catholic upbringing. Premarital sex/ illegitimate births probably don’t fit into Mary’s model.

    In my opinion, insight into Maria’s youth does help people understand the path to this high profile tragedy, as well as the consequences of crying wolf. It does not excuse the murderer for what he, she or they did to Maria and Gabriel. But the path helps people understand.

    Comment by The Net — August 23, 2008 @ 8:32 am

  741. There are a few adoptions in the past records the Biological is very distant and the chin would be a coincidence etc,, Its not so much a history that I have issue with,,,but I know Ann has from time to time read this blog and to see her history being discussed is just YUK! I am sure it feels like an invasion

    Look at the video that was posted when Maria speaks of her personal dreams. This is testimony to her life with Mary. Her parents are creating a keep sake.
    As far as the babies daddy. Did it ever occur to you that it is normal for a girl not to call he mother and say GEE I slept with this guy or that guy,,, I have a great relationship with my kids and before they were married I am sure I did not hear about every girl they went out with, Only the ones that meant something to them.
    Besides I think Maria really thought the baby was Cesar’s

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 23, 2008 @ 11:08 am

  742. The biological relationship is very distant. IMO What the family wants to avoid is the living conditions that the girls were in when they were adopted.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 23, 2008 @ 12:03 pm

  743. As far as YUIK! If Anne has a problem with information being out there about Maria and the Lauterbachs, then maybe she should start with Uncle Pete and his public media interview. He sure put some stuff out there that no one solicited. Then maybe she should go confront cousin Marc. No one solicited what he told on his blog, which is very revealing. Then maybe she should go to Maria’s friend, Sean, who talked about Maria feeling less regarded by Mary than Mary’s biological children. I’m sure she has a pretty good feeling who Josie Pie is, so maybe she should confront that person too.

    Surely by now, Mary has told Anne (who is now an adult) about her life before she became a Lauterbach. Someday, she may need to know about her DNA for medical purposes.

    Speaking of not normal. I don’t think it is normal for a young woman to pretend that a pregnancy is a result of an alleged rape, when it wasn’t. She knew early on about the Naval Hospital’s conception date calculation, so I don’t buy that she inadvertenly made a mistake with the information she relayed to her family about when the baby was conceived. I don’t think it is normal for a rape victim to be raped 3 wks prior and then be stable enough to have unprotected sex with another man less than a month later. Something is not right about Maria’s story. In my opinion, she wanted Mary and family to think the pregnancy was the result of the alleged rape. She wanted Cesar to think the pregnancy was a result of their affiar. I don’t think it is normal for a person to compulsively lie.

    I don’t think Maria was a bad person, but she definitely had some big issues. I think one of them was a Mommy issue and lying may have been a way for her to cope.

    I don’t think it is normal for a person to go to the house of their alleged rapist. I don’t think it is normal for a person/people to murder another person.

    I don’t think it is normal for a mother to go to a Congressional hearing and portray information that is hearsay as factual. I don’t think it is normal to lie about grandchildren and their birth order.

    In my perception, there is not much normal about this whole case. But I do think it is normal to fear potential repercussions from someone who you have accused of rape (or their family members), especially if they didn’t rape you.

    Comment by The Net — August 23, 2008 @ 2:28 pm

  744. cousin Marc?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 23, 2008 @ 3:01 pm

  745. net , what if the Gabriel was due in Jan? any change in your theory?

    Comment by don'tknow — August 23, 2008 @ 3:13 pm

  746. Net I am sure she did fear Cesar, I am also sure that Mary had been briefed by the Militaries answers and her and her attorneys might actually know something we don’t; You assume she is lying but maybe not… I would be very bold of her to make those statements and not have something to back them up with…Did Turner ever get answers to the questions asked in January?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 23, 2008 @ 4:04 pm

  747. Gabriel wasn’t due in January, so no.

    “Grafton says six weeks before Maria vanished, there’d been a huge development in the case. Maria had changed her story and told investigators that Laurean was not her baby’s father; she’d been dating someone else at the time”.

    From USMC Press Conference
    “On June 27th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach is ill and seeks medical attention. She is administered a pregnancy test. The result of the test is positive with medical personnel estimating the conception date as 14 May 2007. LCpl Lauterbach’s UVA calls NCIS to report the pregnancy. LCpl Lauterbach goes to NCIS to make a statement regarding her pregnancy and belief that Cpl Laurean is the father as a result of the alleged rape”.

    How in the heck if the conception date is estimated at 14 May 2007, during a June visit to the hospital, does Maria report that she thinks the pregnancy is the result of the alleged rape by Cesar in April? I think a person with a tendency to lie compulsively might do this.

    It wasn’t until 6 wks before she disappeared that she owned up, to NCIS, that the pregnancy was conceived during mid May. She was caught in a lie. It appears that somehow NCIS found out that conception date reported to them in late June by Maria was not the truth. This is probably when she told her mother the investigation was going sour. Of course it was. She has been caught in another lie by the military (the first probably being her father killed her brother story, which is a disturbing fabrication). This is probably when she really got fed up with her military life. This is why is was so feasible to believe the note that she left.

    From Dateline

    “Megan Grafton: When I actually spoke with her mother, I could understand her concerns. She also conceded that Maria was under a lot of stress and that she was prone to doing things that were impulsive like going U-A.

    Victoria Corderi: So it made sense?

    Megan Grafton: I could see why someone in that position would want to leave town and avoid what was about to happen. Which was this hearing. That she may have believed, and probably believed was not going to go in her favor.

    And at that point, she had said “He is not the father of this child.” Then what motivation would he have to have anything to do with her? Especially since her case was really becoming weaker by the moment”.

    Marc Lauterbach is Steven Lauterbach’s (Vic’s brother) son.

    “When I was in Africa with my family, the time came for me to leave my home and go to boarding school in the United States to continue my education. As we had relatives in Ohio, I was sent to boarding school in Cleveland. At the time, Maria was the eldest of 5 children in the Lauterbach household, having just recently turned 10. I would have been 14 at the time. Given the impracticality of my going home to Africa for such things as long weekends and short breaks such as Thanksgiving and so on, I spent a lot of time at the Lauterbach’s. I became very attached to the family, and all my cousins. Each was unique and I loved them all equally, but Maria was perhaps the one I could best relate to. She was a tomboy, rambunctious, good at sports, and desperately wanted to be taken seriously by the adult world. As I at the time sort of filled the position of “big brother,” my arrival at the household was always a time for great rejoicing amongst the family, especially the cousins who were always eager to see me, play with me, and especially roughhouse.

    Maria, along with her sister Annie, were adopted by my aunt and uncle at a very early age. They were distantly related to my aunt Mary, who is related to me by marriage, not blood. For a while their parents were homeless and there were signs that both Maria and Annie had suffered from the early exposure, as well as possibly fetal alcohol syndrome. While both girls were perfectly normal developmentally (at least as far as I could tell), both had a tendency to be immature and struggled with school and various responsibilities. Maria had a tendency not to think things through and then got into trouble because of it. Relations with her mother and father (uncle Vic and aunt Mary from here on out) were sometimes strained and she was something of a “problem child” not because of anything bad or illegal she did, but because she had trouble concentrating and wasn’t a very good student. However, there has never been any doubt in my ind that she loved her family and me very much.” http://all-seaming-eye.livejournal.com/

    Comment by The Net — August 23, 2008 @ 4:16 pm

  748. Military did respond to turner. and he shares his thoughts and conclusion to the original questions. I am sure the Militaries response is the basis for the hearings in Congress
    http://www.whiotv.com/news/15844417/detail.html

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 23, 2008 @ 4:20 pm

  749. Mastiff

    Turner is from your state, so why don’t you ask him if he got his answers?

    Comment by The Net — August 23, 2008 @ 4:21 pm

  750. Also, I feel that Turner’s motiviation is not genuine. His ratings sucked at the time he wrote that letter to the USMC and he used the Lauterbachs for what he hoped would be positive publicity for himself. He is a politician, so that is expected.

    Comment by The Net — August 23, 2008 @ 4:24 pm

  751. net so the NCIS took maria’s word up until Nov “It wasn’t until 6 wks before she disappeared that she owned up, to NCIS, that the pregnancy was conceived during mid May. ” WOW it took them that long to look into the matter and still had not even looked at Medical for themselves? Not much of an investigation if you ask me… May till Nov is a long time. especially sense the punch thing and harassment thing etc
    Sounds Like Mary’s case gets stronger and stronger

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 23, 2008 @ 4:42 pm

  752. mastiffs, there are only two dates reported by Maria as alleged rape dates. March which was consensual, so that date is out of the picture, and April, that one being investigated. The link you provided regarding the 2 dates were one of many articles regarding this case. There were articles/releases after that one that clarified the 2 supposidly dates. I also read your link regarding Mary in front of Congress. Now it is being publised that the rape happened in May? It doesn’t say possible, it says raped in May by Laurean. WITW? Please don’t tell me that Marys words were taken out of context again by the media. This is what irks me about Mary being in front of Congress. The rape was not proven, and most likely wasn’t going to be proven. She’s fronting Laurean as a rapist and murderer and prosecuting him without a trial. She has become the judge and jury in one swoop. Why doesn’t she mention that the baby most likely wasn’t Laureans or that Maria had consensual sex in March with Laurean, and that the April incident he stopped when she told him to (I still consider this April incident inappropriate) or that the case was weak because of inconsistant statement made by Maria. The punch in the face. I find it hard to believe that Maria stated that she had bruising etc. after the incident but no one noticed it where she worked. Her VA was in that same building, she could’ve reported it then but she waited 5 days. 5 days that no one noticed bruising. Of course when she finally reported it there wasn’t a mark to be seen. And let’s not forget that Maria stated that it wasn’t Laurean that hit her.

    So in as far as your claim:

    “WOW it took them that long to look into the matter and still had not even looked at Medical for themselves? Not much of an investigation if you ask me…”

    Are you suggesting that perhaps NCIS should’ve called Maria a liar from the get go and that NCIS should’ve just dropped the case? We don’t know what NCIS has in their files regarding the investigation. Maybe they told Maria that they were aware of her “true” due date/concepetion date early on and Maria denied it until she realized she couldn’t get away with it or figured out that it wasn’t Laureans. Or maybe NCIS waited until medical was positively sure of the due date/conception date before it was brought forward to Maria. WE JUST DON”T KNOW!!!! Let’s not assume.

    Turner and Mary received his response from the USMC. The questions were answered but I feel that because they weren’t what Turner and/or Mary wanted to hear they called a General in the USMC untruthful. And let’s not forget that the Turner requested that the USMCs response to his questions be made public either. Personally I have not heard a negative thing said about Maria by the military. I’ve never heard them say that she was a compulsive liar, a liar or anything else. I’ve heard negative things released by her family whether intentional or not they were said, I heard them.

    Comment by Nehi — August 23, 2008 @ 6:49 pm

  753. By the way Mastiffs why doesn’t Mary mention 2 alleged rapes? Who’s right you with the 2 alleged rapes or Mary, NCIS, USMC with the 1 alleged rape? If I remember correctly Maria mentioned only 1 rape allegation in April to Mary.

    Comment by Nehi — August 23, 2008 @ 7:31 pm

  754. NEHI, The wow in my post above was not an assumption. I was only stating that if NCIS did not have the conception date until November and they thought the baby was the evidence, and the date was confirmed in June, Then the NCIS was really not investigating. Which would be true

    As for the case in congress we can get a good picture about what is going on behind closed doors these are the issues that Turner has made public. His conclusions after the evidence\response from the military was received. I trust they would not be hanging theirs heads out that far if they were not sure of themselves, The fact that the DOD did not show is also somewhat revealing.

    The below I consider facts in this case
    The Marine Corps delay of 7 days to begin an investigation into Maria Lauterbach’s rape allegation against Cpl Laurean;
    The Marine Corps acknowledged an assault on LCpl Lauterbach and vandalism to her car but took no further action to protect her from harm;,
    The ongoing 7 month investigation into the rape allegation which led to little action and the first formal Article 32 hearing scheduled days after Maria was murdered;
    The details which went unreported to the Marine Corps chain of command at Camp Lejeune, NC regarding the disappearance of Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child for as much as three weeks.

    This is not a command that took any of this seriously; all the above issues show a passive responses. I do not subscribe to the life boat theory, that one individual is worth more protection than another. Remember Grafton said she thought Maria was credible However as stated This is about the process, and you can think what you want about Mary, I think the info provided to the family provides some strength to the case… But we will know more if we see this case go further in congress.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 23, 2008 @ 7:40 pm

  755. Marines never have said anything neg about marine what about your statement “or that the case was weak because of inconsistent statement made by Maria” where does that come from .
    Quote “also read your link regarding Mary in front of Congress. Now it is being published that the rape happened in May? It doesn’t say possible,”
    Were does that come from I only see that it was reported in may

    Comment by don'tknow — August 23, 2008 @ 8:19 pm

  756. I don’t think Mary’s case become stronge and stronger.. I think she looks more and more like a person with a propensity to lie or to mislead. It is becoming more and more apparent where Maria learned to lie.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 23, 2008 @ 8:24 pm

  757. Don’t know, evidently you fail to understand that NCIS and the USMC are two different entities. NCIS is Naval Criminal Investigative Service which employs CIVILIAN personnel, not Marines. In other words, NCIS is comparable to the Onslow County Sheriff’s Department and/or Jacksonville Police Department. So NCIS was the one who stated Maria’s rape allegation was getting weaker by the moment per SA Grafton, not the Marines.

    This is the link to an article, incidentally ihv2mastiff’s posted the link, in which the author states the rape occurred in May: http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20080801_sexual_assault_in_the_military_a_dod_cover_up/

    “The fireworks with DoD followed the dramatic testimony of Mary Lauterbach, the mother of murdered pregnant Marine Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach, who had been raped in May 2007 at Camp Lejeune, N.C.”

    If Maria’s command didn’t take the allegation seriously then why was Maria moved to another building away from Laurean? Why bother to write the MPO’s? Why assign her both a UVA and a civilian VA? Why bother to let her go to NCIS to make a complaint? Why did the command send other Marines in her unit to Dan Durham’s residence, place calls to her contact number in an attempt to locate her? Why did they do all of these things if they didn’t take Maria seriously?

    We can sit on our computers until the cows come home speculating on the motives of each individual in this case but no one posting here knows exactly what happened. Only Maria and Laurean know the chain of events which ultimately led to Maria’s death and sadly Maria isn’t here to tell her side.

    Ihv2mastiffs, it wouldn’t be the first time Congress has called a meeting to discuss something when they don’t have all the facts. And with it being an election year, they are more apt to do these kind of things to make themselves look good for their constituents, after all they are trying to get re-elected.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 23, 2008 @ 11:22 pm

  758. It appears that Annie may have recently married Cory Mohler.

    Mastiff, Did you go to Annie’s wedding? Was it a church wedding?

    From her MySpace
    anne mohler♥ i miss u maria

    Comment by Wedding Bells — August 24, 2008 @ 9:36 am

  759. Nehi There are so many levels that I disagree with you on, However it does become confusing because there are 3 different cases as I see it
    1) How did the military handle the rape investigation/ If she was due in Jan as I had thought , then I think they were handling it well , up until she was murdered. Then they panicked and released some info that would slant public perception.
    However if she conceived in May I have several issues with the way the investigation was handled.
    2) The case before congress. If the private hearings are about how the rape allegations were handled then I have no problem with it , I also read that there was a committee formed several years ago and they have done Nothing ,, maybe they need a swift kick I don’t know. However I do think the Lauterbachs had a reason to be upset with the Military and investigate
    3) The Murder Trial. The Military has very little to do with that except for understanding the motive. If the conception date was May 14th Cesar did not murder her based upon a fear of a rape conviction. And I would bet that Christian knew about an affair etc… Plus Maria was on record claiming another father. I think then, there is a more sinister motive that I hope comes out in court, (again I have reason to believe the crime was more violent than just a whack on the head out of anger)

    The 3 missing pieces that I bet DA has are Hand writing analysis for both letters. Conception date and blood evidence in the house.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 24, 2008 @ 1:01 pm

  760. mastiffs you lost me with your post of 24 Aug 03 (1301). I understand what you said I just don’t understand where 3 cases are involved for you. Issues maybe but not cases. Bottom line, it doesn’t matter what you nor I think or theorize. We only have bits and pieces to this case. Personally I don’t think NCIS blotched the investigation. I don’t disagree with those “true” rape vitims putting themselves forth in front of Congress to attempt to make changes. If there’s something that can be added or changed in the current rules and regs regarding rape then it should be done. So in as far as SARPO, if that’s the agency you’re speaking about, well I don’t know what to say as this agency was mandated and controled by the government. The USMC/NCIS didn’t have any power over them and if they need to implement changes so be it. There’s no agruing that Laurean is most likely involved in Marias death. Don’t know about more sinister motives. I’ll have to wait and see. When the time comes I just hope that “everything” is not put out there for the media to chew up and cause Marias memory further embarassment.

    If Anne did get married, may she live a happy, healthy life.

    Comment by Nehi — August 24, 2008 @ 1:45 pm

  761. I don’t understand what you are referring to “mastiffs you lost me with your post of 24 Aug 03 (1301). “

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 24, 2008 @ 2:01 pm

  762. Refering to your post of 24 Aug 08 made at 1:01 pm. You stated that you disagree with me on so many levels, however, I don’t believe I’ve commented on that many issues surrounding this case.

    Comment by Nehi — August 24, 2008 @ 2:33 pm

  763. “I have reason to believe the crime was more violent than just a whack on the head out of anger” The autopsy reveals skull fractures on both sides of the head? Any other info?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 24, 2008 @ 2:34 pm

  764. Nehi, Just some of your theories . I just see things differently
    But I do think things will be made more clear in the end (I hope) and I also know their will be some info that will show Maria was not lying everytime she opened her mouth

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 24, 2008 @ 2:40 pm

  765. Anonymous That and I think there was blood in other parts of the house

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 24, 2008 @ 2:41 pm

  766. Anon if I remember correctly there wasa 5″ x 4″ irregular defect on the left side. There was a hinge fracture at the base of the skull and a shorter anterior fracture in the right middle fossa. I don’t think there was more than one blow to the head as it wasn’t noted in the autorpsy results. I do think that the one blow was so powerful and so forceful that it caused the hinge fracture and the other fracture.

    And yes mastiffs it was reported that blood was found in other parts of the house. I’m betting it was in the living/dining area as those are the areas that I know the Laureans painted.

    Comment by Nehi — August 24, 2008 @ 2:51 pm

  767. Nehi Thanks and that is why I feel the crime has not just a blow to the head, I think he was trying to kill her not just angry and hit her.
    I had heard the baby estimated weight was 6lbs. for the life of me I can not figure out why I think that. Any info\direction there

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 24, 2008 @ 3:15 pm

  768. I don’t know mastiffs. The cause of death is listed as blunt head trauma not multiple head trauma. There isn’t anything else listed nor noted that can change that cause of death. To me it doesn’t make sense that this was planned murder. Too many loose ends and too many spur of the moment decisions made by the kiiller(s). The whole sequence regarding the murder is just too sloppy to be planned. The events after the murder I believe were planned, how could they not be. Something happened or was said that spurred alot of anger.

    I don’t believe the baby was weighedduring the autopsy, or least it is not showing that he was weighed. Maybe it’ll come to you where you heard the estimated babys weight.

    Comment by Nehi — August 24, 2008 @ 3:43 pm

  769. Nehi and Anon…good posts and I agree. I don’t think I will or can add anymore. Besides, it won’t do any good.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 24, 2008 @ 8:27 pm

  770. The talk of the baby’s weight being estimated at 6 lbs. in November came from an interview that Margo Kissell of the Dayton Daily News had with Mary Lauterbach on 1/20/08. The article states:
    “Meanwhile, her Jan. 15 due date was fast approaching. During an appointment at the Camp Lejeune Naval Hospital on Nov. 26, her obstetrician said her baby weighed more than 6 pounds.” Now Margo Kissell couldn’t have just called the Naval Hospital and asked anyone there what the results of Maria’s last OB appointment were so the information had to come from Mary, IMO.

    Link to article: http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m certainly not saying there was any mistruth said by either Mary or Maria. But honestly there’s no way to know if Maria’s baby’s estimated weight was truly 6 lbs. in November unless the Mary was present at the OB visit. There is also the possibility that the baby’s birth weight could have been well over 8 lbs. (or more), using 2/15/08 as the due date, but we’ll never know for sure will we?

    Which this leads me to something else. Maria tells NCIS around 11/5 that she had miscalculated the conception/due date and she no longer felt that Cesar Laurean was the father (she had been seeing someone else), then why did she fail to inform her mother of the same? Was she afraid to tell her mother and have her mother doubt her allegation?

    Also I remember Pete Steiner commented early on that Maria was also having contractions around the time of her disappearance. Who was the source of that information? Mary as she was told by Maria? Or did Maria tell that directly to Pete Steiner?

    Mastiff have you asked the family about these things? If so, what was their response?

    There are so many unanswered questions that still linger in this case. I think I could fill at least two notebooks with all the questions that I still have.

    Comment by Sandy — August 24, 2008 @ 10:39 pm

  771. Thank you, Sandy, for that clarification. I remembered the 6 lb baby weight being reported as sometime in November, but couldn’t remember the source.

    Maria and her family.. apparently anything they say is being questioned. But something led to her being killed and buried in the Laurean backyard. With baby clothes in the fire pit.

    Except for when Maria said the baby was not Laurean’s in November, then suddenly everybody takes her at her word. Funny how that works, eh?

    Comment by walker — August 25, 2008 @ 12:34 am

  772. Maybe, just maybe, Maria was telling the truth about the rape. And maybe she backed down in November due to the pressure and the harrassment, and just wanted it to be over. And maybe NCIS believed her.

    But then we have her buried in the Laurean backyard. And some suggest it was her fault for making him angry.

    I don’t know .. I am not one for blind acceptance of institutional PR.

    Comment by walker — August 25, 2008 @ 12:39 am

  773. Comment by ihv2mastiffs: The below I consider facts in this case:

    <<The Marine Corps delay of 7 days to begin an investigation into Maria Lauterbach’s rape allegation against Cpl Laurean;

    On May 11th, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach confides in her Officer-in-Charge two incidents of a sexual nature with Cpl Laurean. The UVA takes LCpl Lauterbach to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service office aboard Camp Lejeune to file a formal complaint. NCIS opens a rape investigation

    And here it is in black and white, straight from your source link none other than JD News. http://www.jdnews.com/articles/lauterbach_54386___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs: The Marine Corps acknowledged an assault on LCpl Lauterbach and vandalism to her car but took no further action to protect her from harm;,

    On May 29, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach’s UVA notified NCIS that she had reported being punched in the face by an unknown assailant, in her barracks parking lot. LCpl Lauterbach was interviewed by NCIS and indicted the assault occurred on May 24, 2007.
    And as usual she did not report it in a timely manner. It took her five days to report it to her UVA. Now May 24, 2007 was on a Thursday. Her UVA was her boss and she was able to meet with her regularly and yet she failed to report it until five days after the fact. . When she does report it she has no evidence, not even any bruising or swelling on her face. No description, except to say that it was NOT Cpl Laurean and her physical description did NOT match Laurean. No oone in her office noticed that she was injured.

    LCpl Lauterbach reported the incident of the damage to her vehicle to her UVA, who, in turn, notified NCIS. The CVA advised NCIS that LCpl Lauterbach reported her car had been keyed sometime between the May 11, 2007, rape allegation to NCIS and the May 24, 2007, alleged assault by the unknown assailant. The VA related that LCpl Lauterbach was unable to provide any specific information about the incident. NCIS advised the CVA to have LCpl Lauterbach report the vandalism to the Provost Marshal’s Office. She did NOT report the incident to the PMO.

    Once again LCpl Lauterbach was given instructions as to reporting a criminal incident and once again she failed to follow instructions. The alleged keying incident was never reported to the PMO so that it could be properly investigated.

    Yet the USMC did the following to protect LCpl Lauterbach: From the Response letter to Rep Turner from Lt General R.S. Kramlich.

    1-reassigned her to a different work section, approximately two miles form Cpl Laurean

    2-assigned her a UVA, whom she was able to meet with regularly;

    3-issued Cpl. Laurean a verbal order and written MPO to cease all contact and stay a minimum of 1000 feet from LCpl Lauterbach;

    4-gave LCpl Lauterbach a copy of the MPO and explained to her that the MPO was in place to protect her;

    5-advised LCpl Lauterbach to contact the command immediately if Cpl. Laurean violated the MPO;

    6-ensured both Cpl Laurean and LCpl Lauterbach understood that the MPO was applicable on base as well as off base in the civilian community;

    7-excused LCpl Lauterbach from any event where Cpl. Laurean might be present. (see A5-both LCpl Lauterbach and Cpl Laurean knew the terms of the MPO and understood that they were to report any contact with each other to their command immediately. In addition they were directed not to attend formations or unit events of any type (formal or informal) where one or the other was expected to be present…)

    8-assigned LCpl Lauterbach a Civilian Victim Advocate;

    9-supported LCpl Lauterbach’s attendance at counseling and all medical appointments.

    quoted from the letter written by Lt. Gen R.S. Kramlich

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs: The ongoing 7 month investigation into the rape allegation which led to little action and the first formal Article 32 hearing scheduled days after Maria was murdered;

    Again from your source JD News.

    [quote]From November 4th through November 13th, Cpl Laurean takes annual leave to his home in Las Vegas.
    On November 26, 2007, LCpl Lauterbach attends a scheduled OB appointment at the Camp Lejeune Naval Hospital.
    At this point in the alleged rape investigation, the regimental commander and trial counsel continue to discuss the evidence and the possible charges, IF ANY, to prefer against Cpl Laurean. The regimental commander has NOT made a decision regarding what charges, IF ANY, to prefer against Cpl Laurean and has NOT consulted with his Staff Judge Advocate. Cpl Laurean has NOT been detailed government defense counsel and NO Article 32 hearing is scheduled as Cpl Laurean has NOT been charged with any offenses.[/quote]

    Guilty people go free everyday because there is not enough evidence for the prosecution to take the case to court. The CO wanted to take the case to an Article 32, where everyone involved and the witnesses would be under oath and subject to cross examination. The accused would have a defense attorney that the court could make a recommendation. A DNA comparison between Laurean and the baby was significant. And it could not be harvested/collected prior to the baby’s birth in February. They could however hold the Article 32 to get all of the statements made under oath, but it is doubtful if they would have scheduled it during the December holiday season,

    First LCpl Lauterbach said that she was raped and the baby was from the sexual assault and Laurean was the father. Then she said that the baby was not from the sexual assault and Laurean was not the father, that she was dating someone else, but she had still been sexually assaulted by Laurean.

    And Laurean never changed his statement that he never had sexual contact with LCpl Lauterbach.

    So if the baby’s DNA matched Laurean, it would prove that he had given a false statement in a crimiinal investigation or if he had been asked that under oath at the Article 32 it would mean that he had committed perjury. It would NOT prove rape, however it would surely validate the witness statements collected by NCIS that LCpl Lauterbach and Cpl Laurean continued to have a sexual relationship after she made her allegations against him for sexual assault.

    So it would be questionable whether she would continue to have a relationship with her alleged assaliant. It would be more than likely that they had a continuing sexual relationship and for some reason known only to her she decided to accuse him of sexual assault. Either way the evidence would h ave put paid to any charge of sexual assault. But she would have reported a false sexual assault. She would also committed perjury if there had been an Article 32. Both of them could be charged with fraternization and adultry.

    Now if the baby’s DNA did not match Laurean, it would not prove whether he had or had not sexually assaulted her. Since it could not be proven one way or the other, Laurean would not face charges for sexual assault and he would not face charges of perjury, since he stated that he did not have sexual contact. Nor could he face adultry or fraternization, because there is no proof that they had a sexual relationship. The onus would then fall on LCpl Lauterbach for making false allegations against Laurean.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs: The details which went unreported to the Marine Corps chain of command at Camp Lejeune, NC regarding the disappearance of Maria Lauterbach and her unborn child for as much as three weeks.

    LCpl Lauterbach told her mother that she was required to attend the unit party, knowing full well that she and Cpl Laurean were both excused. She left a note saying she was leaving, withdrew $700.00, bought a bus ticket and went to Cpl Laurean’s home. Sgt Durham gave the command that note and told them that she had taken clothes, toiletries, her car and left. There was not evidence of foul play. When she didn’t show up for formation on 12-17-07, her command thought that she had voluntarily gone UA. They call her cell phone and finally sent Marines to her home. On 12-18-07 her command notifies her family of her absence. Mother also states she last spoke to her daughter on December 14th. The section OIC asks Mother about LCpl Lauterbach’s whereabouts and possible reasons for leaving. Mother stated she didn’t know where she was and didn’t have reasons why she may have left. The command told Mother to file a Missing Persons Report. On 12-19-07 OCSO contacts NCIS and is given the information about the alleged sexual assault and that she accused another Marine of being her assailant.

    Please notice that it is NCIS which is the LE agency which is consulted by OCSO another LE agency. The information would flow back and forth between OCSO and NCIS…not her command. Since she lived within the jurisdiction of Onslow County, the MPR was investigated by Onslow County. That was a whole new case and had nothing to do with her command. OCSO investigtors might seek out information from NCIS, but it was not their jurisdiction nor their case.

    Example: A Marine goes home on leave and is murdered, LE from that town doesn’t report every part of their investigation to the Marine’s command. Why would there be any difference between the two cases?

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 25, 2008 @ 4:08 am

  774. Walker I agree. I think the circumstantial evidence leads us towards that
    “Maybe, just maybe, Maria was telling the truth about the rape. And maybe she backed down in November due to the pressure and the harassment, and just wanted it to be over. And maybe NCIS believed her.

    The confusion comes in when we think Maria was lying about everything

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 8:07 am

  775. Sandy
    Lots of questions , will post later tonight

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 8:08 am

  776. “But then we have her buried in the Laurean backyard. And some suggest it was her fault for making him angry”.

    Comment by walker — August 25, 2008 @ 12:39 am

    I can onlly recall one poster who directly supports Walker’s statement.

    I do think that some of Maria’s actions led to the tragic conclusion, but to say it was her fault (suggesting that she deserved it) that she ended up dead in Laurean’s backyard is not how I feel.

    I am not a Cesar or Chrissy Laurean fan. I pray that justice will be served. But for that to happen, a lot of who Maria was is going to come out in court, whether some on here like it or not. If you don’t think that the type of stuff we are discussing on this blog won’t be part of the trial, then I believe you are fooling yourself. I tend to think that what we are discussing here is mild in comparison to what will be presented in court.

    I do believe that if Maria’s lying problem had been dealt with and treated by behaviorial health professionals, there is a good chance that she and Gabriel would still be here today. That is just from an outsider looking in, who has the benefit of hindsight

    I hope the jury will be able to realize that Maria, despite her weaknesses, was selfishly murdered and punish the murderer(s) to the fullest extent of the law. There is a good chance that Mexico may never allow us get to that point.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 25, 2008 @ 8:18 am

  777. And that is the bottom line Anon. The murderer(s) need to be punished as harshly as possible.

    Me to Iguana, looks like you’ve done a heck of alot of research regarding the case. I appreciate your posts as they state KNOWN facts.

    Comment by Nehi — August 25, 2008 @ 9:26 am

  778. The talk of the baby’s weight being estimated at 6 lbs. in November came from an interview that Margo Kissell of the Dayton Daily News had with Mary Lauterbach on 1/20/08. The article states:
    “Meanwhile, her Jan. 15 due date was fast approaching. During an appointment at the Camp Lejeune Naval Hospital on Nov. 26, her obstetrician said her baby weighed more than 6 pounds.” Now Margo Kissell couldn’t have just called the Naval Hospital and asked anyone there what the results of Maria’s last OB appointment were so the information had to come from Mary, IMO.
    On the Babies, I know the family believes last I spoke to them concerning the due date. That she was due in Jan. at that time to the best of my knowledge they had not seen the medical report. We know from the Sheriff Gabriel the hand was approx the size of his thumb,
    Link to article: http://www.daytondailynews.com/story/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html?cxntlid=inform

    As Far as weight goes ,(from personal experience) if Ob said the baby was aprox 6 lbs, I am sure she would be further along than 6 ½ months . I delivered my 3rd child at 32 weeks he was 4lb 10oz , Doc’s said he would have been 9+lbs full term, 6 lbs at 7 months 3 weeks would be an 8 lbs at birth

    Concerning why Maria did or did not tell Mary about another man etc,,,
    I can only speak to what I think from knowing them. 1st I will give you my assumptions so you can better understand where I am coming from. I will elaborate if you want me to just ask.
    1. I do not think every word out of Maria’s mouth is a lie.
    2, I think what we hear from Mary is what she believes to be true
    3. I think Maria was involved in an emotionally abusive relationship with Cesar
    4. I believe that Maria tried to end the relationship and Cesar said No. One More Time.
    5. I think Maria (being who she was) was conquered (for lack of a better term) she knew how to win and rise to a challenge , but she did not know how to handle a sexually aggressive person.
    6. I believe she did not show up for work because of the rapes
    7. I am sure that Grafton had reason to believe her however there was not enough evidence to prosecute (I am sure the unauthorized absents plays into this hole thing)
    8. I am confident Maria was harassed and afraid of Cesar, I think she was constantly weighing out the question What will make this go away. If I report the harassment and can not prove it, they will think I lied and I am in more trouble with Cesar and his friends.
    9. I believe Maria told Lisa that she was afraid, but reframed from telling Grafton for fear of becoming more vulnerable to NCIS.
    10. I think Maria really thought the baby was Cesar’s, regardless of the conception date.
    11. I think Maria felt the threats from Cesar were becoming more intense, that is why she withdrew the pregnancy from the rape, and If the dates had changed making it impossible, I am sure she was then protecting the other man. I am sure Mary would have told her to tell NCIS concerning the guy.
    I remember hearing about the rape and Mary not understanding when Maria would say “Mom you just don’t understand he out ranks me” Mary having such respect for the military IMO thought Maria , that does not matter NCIS will protect you. That Total trust in NCIS was the real conflict Mary simply trusted that NCIS would look past Maria’s past and deal with the issue at hand/.

    “Also I remember Pete Steiner commented early on that Maria was also having contractions around the time of her disappearance” SGT D has validated that. He states to the police that Maria was needed total bed rest. And not in a physical state to travel. That is what he was referring to. I positive this was true.

    Mastiff have you asked the family about these things? If so, what was their response?
    Please understand that I have not spoken to Mary in a while, But also know that (besides the GMA thing ) I have never heard her change her story, she is speaking to what she is feeling and believes.

    There are so many unanswered questions that still linger in this case. I think I could fill at least two notebooks with all the questions that I still have.
    If I can answer them I will, but please remember I am not Mary. I would love for all of you to meet her. She is straight forward (not perfect) but she is being truthful when she speaks

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 5:27 pm

  779. Sandy I took your post and started a word doc. to make sure I answered your question Copied and Pasted but forgot to delete you info Sorry

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 5:29 pm

  780. Me to Iguana
    The post of mine you are quoting from, The Subject of the post was reason why the Mary has taken this case to congress, All of your quotes seem to show that anything NCIS did or did not do were do to Maria lying. No matter what you quote Maria did not change her conception date, Medical defines it and Maria would respond to Medical. That’s a physical fact not opinion.
    All of your conclusions to the statements you quote are coming from a point of view that if there was no evidence Maria Lied.. Simple a flawed way of viewing it.
    However I can see how you would come up with the conclusion NCIS did not belive Maria

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 6:14 pm

  781. I believe that the 6 lbs is what Maria wanted her mother to believe. Hearsay from Maria to Mary to help corroborate the due date (January) that she gave Mary. Anyone can read a book like “What to Expect When You Are Expecting” and find out approximately how much babies generally weigh during gestation. You can look it up on the internet too.

    Or, it could be that Maria had gestational diabetes? That could make the unborn child weigh more.

    http://www.marchofdimes.com/pnhec/188_1025.asp

    “If gestational diabetes is not treated, the fetus receives too much blood sugar and will grow too large”.

    Also, the contractions she was having were probably Braxton Hicks. Or on the chance that they were real, then she could have given birth prematurely. That certainly is not uncommon.

    I don’t think the weight of the baby or the contractions are proof of due date in January.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 25, 2008 @ 6:53 pm

  782. All of your conclusions to the statements you quote are coming from a point of view that if there was no evidence Maria Lied.. Simple a flawed way of viewing it.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 6:14 pm

    Mastiffs, you mean to tell me that everything in the affidavits, the USMC press release, all the JDN newspaper articles, interviews with the LE were quotes and points of views? So your assumptions and I thinks are what really happened? Where have I been all these months?

    Comment by Nehi — August 25, 2008 @ 6:57 pm

  783. Mastiffs, I know the rebuttals will be coming shortly, but I wanted to let you know that I’m solidly with you on all counts above. I believe Maria and Mary are both being painted much darker than was or is really the case.

    When I first started following this case, I believed there was no way that Maria bought the bus ticket to El Paso. A short time later, Lindell and Mike retraced Maria’s steps and interviewed the ticket agent. The timetable matched, the documents matched, and the ticket agent’s story seemed very credible. It all worked even though it still didn’t make any sense. As a result, I changed my mind and have believed since that Maria most likely did buy the ticket. I will need much more than what is out there now to change my mind about Maria and Mary.

    Comment by R356 — August 25, 2008 @ 7:08 pm

  784. Nahi ” you mean to tell me that everything in the affidavits, the USMC press release, all the JDN newspaper articles, interviews with the LE were quotes and points of views?”
    No the conclusions to them. Not the facts associated with them
    If you re read them , thinking the forced sex, Harassment and a punch might have actually happened then Maria behavior actually becomes constant, IMO she was afraid of her past that was being brought to light when she made the reports torn between what might be worse Cesar repercussions or the Marines.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 7:21 pm

  785. I believe Maria and Mary are both being painted much darker than was or is really the case.
    Comment by R356 — August 25, 2008 @ 7:08 pm

    Unfortunately too much personal information has been revealed regarding Mary and Maria, but, it is what is it is. In my opinion some informaiton shouldn’t have been released, but, it’s out there compliments of our media and will continue to be put out there as the case progresses. I have my opionions on this case based on what has been put out there by legitimate parties and if I’m wrong in some areas then so be it. I don’t pick and choose what fits my mold and I don’t assume. Mainly because in reality what I think just doesn’t matter on this board. One thing I have not done here is bash neither Mary nor Maria nor any other poster. I try to maintain a civil arguement, but, one thing is that if there is nothing in black and white coming from a legitimate source to show me or back up someones assumptions I won’t buy it.

    Comment by Nehi — August 25, 2008 @ 7:26 pm

  786. R356 I think Cesar was with Maria at the Bus station, given the timeline they would have had to have met at the bank or earlier, The reason I think this is because Cesar gives an alibi for being there, I am confident he thought their might be an eye witness that would come forward. I think she was manipulated into buying the ticket. Remember, unlike an air plane she did not need to be the intended passenger.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 7:28 pm

  787. IMO she was afraid of her past that was being brought to light when she made the reports torn between what might be worse Cesar repercussions or the Marines.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 7:21 pm

    Her past? What about her past? I don’t think Maria was a wall flower and for some reason I don’t see her as a weak female. I think she was mentally strong, albeit a little immature, but strong willed and mentally strong so I don’t think she was thinking about who was worse, Cesar or the Marines. At what point do you think she started to tenatively weight the repercussions?

    Comment by Nehi — August 25, 2008 @ 7:32 pm

  788. R356 and you are right to think there is more to these peole than what meets the press.
    Mary is a mother of 5 and had spent the last 10 years giving 20 plus ours to the community a week while working full time keeping her kids in sport and drama .

    If she was such a lyer I think you would be hearig things like My daughter was perfect. and she would not have told the police the truth

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 7:36 pm

  789. The whole thing with the baby’s weight doesn’t prove to me not one bit that she was in fact due in January…the same with the contractions. With my first child, the doctor estimated-just a few weeks before I was due-that he was going to be 8 lbs. Guess what…he was 6 lbs 13.5 oz. When I was getting ready to deliver my second child the midwife asked how much did my first weigh and I told her. She estimated the baby I was about to deliver to be over 7 lbs. Guess what…he was 6 lbs 10 oz. Doctors can’t feel your stomach and estimate.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 25, 2008 @ 7:58 pm

  790. I understand, Nehi. I just wonder if anyone here (absolutely no one in particular) has taken a good look at their own life and the lives of their loved ones. All the daily decisions and nondecisions, actions and inactions. How would or could they be portrayed if suddenly caught up in the kind of storm that surrounds this case. I feel that I live a pretty good life and most who know me I think would agree, but I also know it would probably fold like a straw in a hurricane under this type of scrutiny.

    We don’t live our lives with the expectation of becoming a victim of crime, keeping everything neat and pat, so law enforcement and the public can make sense of everything we do, judge us as “normal”. Particularly if we’re no longer around to attempt to explain. Just think through the last 24 hours, all you did or didn’t do and more importantly, WHY. Is it all “normal” and can you explain it?

    I think it’s just too easy to take a few snapshots from someone’s life, without context or explanation, and believe you can know that person. I want to believe Maria and the Lauterbachs are good people with normal lives and hope that belief will eventually be proved right.

    Comment by R356 — August 25, 2008 @ 8:10 pm

  791. I think I’m going to need some of Steve Steiner’s scotch here soon!

    Comment by Bartender Pour Me a Double — August 25, 2008 @ 8:23 pm

  792. Scotch? Mr. Steiner is a scotch drinker? That stuff is yucky.

    Comment by Nehi — August 25, 2008 @ 8:26 pm

  793. ANn I agree , the preganacy is not very important at all, except that the family lost a family member and conception date really only plays to what was in the minds of Cesar Maria etc… not evidence in the murder

    Okay Bar tender, you have pop your head up before , who are you?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 8:30 pm

  794. Bar tender show yourself LOL, you know who I am come on be fair
    Color of your Hair

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 8:35 pm

  795. Maybe after a bottle of Glenlivet. :)

    Comment by Anonymous — August 25, 2008 @ 8:38 pm

  796. spoke with k j e and I will get cf right on this LOL

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 8:42 pm

  797. Your funny I did talk with K J E and was told who they thought you were you should participate like to here your side

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 8:44 pm

  798. like to hear your side
    Now I have had to much scotch LOL

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 8:46 pm

  799. Just thought about the joke above, I am not a drinker, it is a family joke. this is why I know this person is close :-)

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 8:52 pm

  800. R356 Thank You and you are so right, this family you would enjoy and trust, Mary would always tell you what she thought when asked and Always faught for the under dog

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 25, 2008 @ 8:56 pm

  801. January 20, 2008 Mary gives this interview and the first words out of her mouth are: “Beautiful girl, Beautiful figure, perceived creditability issues….set her up to be a perfect victim”

    Can there really be a “perfect victim”? Does the perfect victim have a different story to tell different people? Can only a beautiful girl with a beautiful figure be believed based on her perceived creditability issues?

    Let’s see…perceived-1. To become aware of directly through any of the senses, especially sight or hearing. 2. To achieve understanding of; apprehend

    The USMC, NCIS and JAG DID NOT need to hear Mary say that Maria was possibly bipolar and that she was an occasional compulsive liar, THEY ALREADY HAD THAT EVIDENCE IN HER SRB. They had FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE and had already been dealing with her ISSUES. Which is why they ordered her to counseling.

    Three types of evidence 1-direct, where the a witness sees the actual crime (rape) committed; 2- forensic (what the assailant left behind); 3-expert evidence (experts who validate the forensic conclusions). And the also circumstantial evidence, trying to establish guilt or innocence through reasoning.

    Mary as well as you keep trying to say that due to fact that the USMC/NCIS/JAG had EVIDENCE that Maria had lied and stolen from them, that they didn’t bother to look for direct or forensic evidence. to support her allegations.

    Essentially Maria brought to her command absolutely NO FORENSIC EVIDENCE and NO CORROBORATING WITNESSES to support her allegations that she was raped by Cpl Laurean. She waited six weeks from the alleged first rape encounter and four weeks from the second alleged rape encounter to tell her command about it. And this is where the Lauterbach enablers insert “but it is normal for a rape victim to do that.” Might be normal, but it doesn’t change the main ingredients to successfully prosecute a rape case. She still needs direct evidence, forensic evidence and/or corroborating witnesses.

    She had nothing with Cpl Laurean’s semen present. She had no hair nor fibers that could have been used to identify her attacker. She had no injuries, no physical evidence that would have been found had she reported it in a timely manner and a rape kit done. There didn’t seem to be any witnesses to support her version of how Cpl Laurean sexually pursued her. No one saw Cpl Laurean take her by the hand and lead her to a place where they would not get caught. And she has stated that he did not use force, coercion, blackmail, etc. She stated that she told him NO, no screams or loud noises of objection that might have allowed NCIS to find a witness that might remember what they heard on that critical night. In the end all NCIS had was a female Marine who states she was raped and a male Marine she has accused who says that he did not have sexual contact with her.

    NCIS had no Forensic Evidence and No Corroborating Witnesses, all they had was her word against his word. Most prosecutors will refuse to take that case to court, because there is not enough Evidence. I fail to see where the USMC/NCIS/JAG’s FACTUAL EVIDENCE OF HER LIES AND THEFT meant anything in this case. She did not have a case due to the lack of forensic evidence or witnesses.

    Six weeks later she tells NCIS that she is pregnant as a result of the rape. by Cpl Laurean. A pregnancy test done on May 11, 2007 was negative. I am sure the +or – .01% accuracy of the pregnancy test was considered. Aside from Amniocentesis to collect a DNA sample, which might prove hazardous to the growing fetus…the case is stalled , due to lack of Evidence. The only things that could have been done waswait until A- the baby is born and they can collect DNA for a comparison. B- keep looking for a needle in a haystack, evidence to support Maria’s allegations, C-Continue to wait for their alleged victim or rapist to confide in someone about the crime itself or D-Drop the case. There is just NOT enough evidence to charge Cpl Laurean and get a conviction.

    AND hanging over the rape investigation is the fact that should they charge Cpl Laurean of rape with NO forensic evidence, no witnesses, his defense attorney is going to trot out the FACTUAL EVIDENCE of Maria’s “creditability issues” and enter them into evidence and use them to show reasonable doubt and open up a can of worms as to why she just might be out to ruin Cpl Laurean’s career and marriage.

    Law Enforcement is responsible for bringing in the evidence in a crime. They formulate a theory (circumstantial evidence) and then gather evidence to PROVE how they believe the crime occurred. They hand their evidence to the Prosecutor and it is his/her job to decide whether there is enough evidence to prove the charges against the accused. And many times the prosecutor refuses to take the case to court because he feels the evidence is just too weak. The accused goes free. And sometimes the accused is offered a plea bargain because there is not enough evidence to support the higher charge, but enough to convict on a lesser charge. Justice is still served.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 25, 2008 @ 10:16 pm

  802. Iguana, that’s a very clear post. It explains, for me, why things were stalled. Thanks.

    Comment by justice4all — August 25, 2008 @ 11:02 pm

  803. Stiffs,
    Your post is filled with inaccuracies.According to Mary, Maria called her on May 10th and told her that she had been attacked. Mary asked her “When” and Maria replied “April 10th”. So Mary is the originator of the “misinformation” concerning the 2 incidents of a sexual nature, as per the USMC Press Conference.

    You said that the USMC delayed 7 days to begin an investigation. I showed you where the USMC assigned a UVA to Maria, then the UVA took her to the medical unit where she was examined, and then to NCIS. NCIS opened their investigation of the rape on May 11th…the very same date that Maria reported her rape allegations to the USMC.

    You said that the USMC acknowledged the assault of LCpl Lauterbach and the vandalism to her car and yet did nothing to protect her. She reported this “assault” on May 29th…5 days after it happened. She told NCIS that it DEFINETLY WAS NOT Cpl Laurean. She stated that her face was bruised and swollen and yet there was no EVIDENCE to support her injuries or the assault. EVIDENCE!!!! And please don’t you think that a person with alleged “preconceived creditability issues” already involved in a case with insufficient evidence, knew that she needed to report the assault in a timely manner, NOT 5 days after the fact. And the same thing about the vandalism to her car. She never did report it to the PMO. In both instances the Evidence was Lost.

    You stated that there was 7 months of inaction. And yet there was a constant stream of information going back and forth between the USMC, NCIS and JAG. You stated that the Article 32 was scheduled for days after Lauterbach disappeared. I posted right from JD News that the Article 32 was had not been scheduled, Nor had any charges been made.

    You posted that the details went unreported up the chain of command in her disappearance. That statement is misleading, they had EVIDENCE that she was UA by her own free will. They had her note that said that she was leaving the USMC. And there is also a witness that came forward to verify that Maria wanted out of the Marines and was thinking of leaving. What goes on outside the base is usually passed on to NCIS from the LLE Agency. The USMC does not deploy Marines to make house to house searches for personnel who go UA. That wouold be a breach of Constitutional Law. Personnel who go UA have 30 days to return to base before their status becomes desertion and they enter the FBI jurisdiction. Her command called her family 24 hours after she was absent from formation, and asked about her and it was the USMC that told Mary to file an MPR.

    You need to chew and swallow your own words and stop putting your words in another posters mouth. I find them distasteful…

    [quote]All of your quotes seem to show that anything NCIS did or did not do were do to Maria lying. No matter what you quote Maria did not change her conception date, Medical defines it and Maria would respond to Medical. That’s a physical fact not opinion.
    All of your conclusions to the statements you quote are coming from a point of view that if there was no evidence Maria Lied.. Simple a flawed way of viewing it.
    However I can see how you would come up with the conclusion NCIS did not belive Maria[/quote]

    On the contrary, I don’t have the slightest idea if Maria told the truth or not and I really have not given it much consideration as it pertains to this case. This is a criminal investigation and the Law is about Evidence NOT Opinion or Speculation. The USMC (her command) has nothing to do with the legalities of the allegations of rape by Maria. They promptly turned the allegations over to law enforcement. NCIS as a law enforcement agency had the obligation to search for any and all EVIDENCE to support Lauterbach’s allegations without bias, while at the same time protecting the Constitutional Rights of an innocent man (in the eyes of the LAW) again without bias. I believe that NCIS did exactly that, they searched for EVIDENCE. And legally that is all they are required to do, to the best of their ability. If NCIS had not taken these allegations seriously they would have never put what little EVIDENCE they had before JAG. Ultimately it was JAG who had to decide if Laterbach’s case had merit.

    Lauterbach’s command was waiting for a recommendation from JAG as to how to proceed. JAG would go through the command to set up an Article 32, arrange for the presence of all witnesses and the particulars in the case. Lauterbach’s pregnancy was the only significant EVIDENCE that MIGHT give them the answers to the questions that the CO, NCIS and JAG had been searching for. And yet there was NO way to find out if Laurean was the father of the baby UNTIL it’s birth. I don’t see their actions as a denial of Lauterbach’s allegations, but as the only hope they had of finding out the truth and finding Justice for Lauterbach.

    I won’t deny that her inconsistent statements and the fact that she failed to report things in a timely manner had to be frustrating for the NCIS investigators and JAG. Equally her command was faced with the probability that IF Lauterbah’s rape was a random act, then they had the potential to have other female Marines at stake. If Laurean and Lauterbach had been in a consensual relationship (as her statements may have suggested) then they had a potential fraternization issue as well as an adultery issue to contend with for the good of the entire unit.

    As for the probability of her having a negative pregnancy test on May 11 with the exposure dates of March 26 and April 10 is unlikely. From March 26 to May 11 is 47 days/ for April 10th to May 11 is 32 days or over 4 weeks and there should have been more than enough pregnancy hormones to get a positive result. And the EVIDENCe is that the test was NEGATIVE for pregnancy hormones.

    Then on June 27th another pregnancy test and this time it is positive. 48 days have elapsed since the May 11 negative pregnancy test 95 days from the March 26th from the first exposure date and 79 days from the second exposure date. 95 days = over 13 weeks, 79 days = 11 weeks and yet NCIS has a theory that Lauterbach’s baby will be EVIDENCE that will help them with their case. The EVIDENCE points to the fact that NCIS was taking Lauterbach’s allegations seriously.

    Oh Please…In the preceeding post you set forth your theory by assumption and then post [quote]No matter what you quote Maria did not change her conception date, Medical defines it and Maria would respond to Medical. That’s a physical fact not opinion[/quote]

    And you know this how? You have EVIDENCE to support your statement? I have never seen where Lauterbach (Maria) gave any statement as to a specific conception date..

    The USMC has stated that MEDICAL personnel gave her conception date as May 14, 2007. That is the official DOC. On October 26 she had a gynocological exam that verified the DOC that the medical personnel had given her on June 27. According to the official report she changed her statement.

    [quote]10. I think Maria really thought the baby was Cesar’s, regardless of the conception date.[/quote]

    Doesn’t your assumptive statement contradict your statement that [quote]No matter what you quote Maria did not change her conception date, Medical defines it and Maria would respond to Medical. That’s a physical fact not opinion[/quote]

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 26, 2008 @ 1:39 am

  804. I understand what you are communicating, However I am communicating that that Maria not showing to work right after the sexual assault, and the harassment after she reported it might have triggered a speeder response from the NCIS.
    What I read in the post above is all the reason why there was not a faster response. And they followed the process currently in place.. I suggest that if that is true then maybe the process needs looked at.
    Even after she went missing , It took 3 weeks for NCIS or any authority just to share the info with the Local Onslow. (another girl might have been being held against her will etc…) I would have been upset too. I would have wanted answers on the details of what led up to her disappearance.
    Now your post above does communicate if Maria would have done this or that and that’s fine, If Maria would have never Met Cesar he would not have killed her either.
    When I read the article pertaining to the case before congress I would say, GO INVESTIGATE,,, the process does not seem to be working. I also read about the other woman that had similar experiences. As I suggested before, If you think the process works, Show us cases when it did work. If believe the only way to solve problems is to study successes , if all we do is study failures and say we played by the book then we loose
    I heard once , the definition of insanity “ When an individual tries the same thing over and over again expecting a different result”
    If it took a case like Maria’s to get the attention I am happy she is willing to do so.
    But remember the case is not about Maria and Cesar, and all the answers to Turners questions have not been made public and I would suggest that Mary (when testifying) knows a great deal more than you.
    Remember the press is a money making business and Scandals Sell. Why do you think Mary testimony is the most public. Because her story is selling papers

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 8:32 am

  805. Thanks Iguana, it is nice to hear truthful facts vs blurred garble. Hearsay, will not get a conviction in court. I still say that NIS, CID, Maria’s command did everything possible and more, I might add, to document her allegations, protect her, and follow up when she did not report to work in Dec. They had no credible evidence to chuck Laurean in the brig. They had no rape kit, no 911 calls, incidents were reported days later, statements were changed, Laurean had no prior convictions, no glitches in his record book. They had nothing to profile him, so their hands were tied. The only reason they were waiting on the babie’s DNA was to prove whether he lied about having relations with Maria.

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 26, 2008 @ 9:09 am

  806. Unenlisted
    so you feel that the system works for all? If so ,,,fair enough. This is just an investigation in congress, Also what about the other woman. Do you think the same system worked for them.
    If so then I would you think no changes needed, although I disagree, I think that if a Mailitary person goes UA and there is a missing persons complaint filed with the Local LE , the Military should set an appointment with a sense of urgency.
    the Local LE would not have all the info pretaining to the missing person without that meeting

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 9:16 am

  807. have a great week

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 9:24 am

  808. Every question that I’ve seen Turner ask did get answered.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 9:31 am

  809. The fact is that Maria’s case in not a good one for Congress to base changes in regard to sexual assault. There is absolutely no proof that she was raped or sexually assaulted. If changes are mandated by Congress based on hearsay vs. evidence and fact, WOW!

    Comment by Anonymous — August 26, 2008 @ 9:36 am

  810. >>I heard once , the definition of insanity “ When an individual tries the same thing over and over again expecting a different result”<<

    Must be true, you keep right on plugging the same tired assumptions…

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 26, 2008 @ 11:03 am

  811. I agree with you Anonymous. I don’t think anyone here has said that the system is perfect. I believe we’ve all said there could be room for improvement as nothing is perfect. But I think that they should not base making changes or saying what is in place now doesn’t work based on Maria’s situation alone.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 11:22 am

  812. ihv2mastiffs states: I understand what you are communicating, However I am communicating that that Maria not showing to work right after the sexual assault, and the harassment after she reported it might have triggered a speeder response from the NCIS.

    Excuse me?! The is NO EVIDENCE of a SEXUAL ASSAULT…that is the point. NCIS has not ever been able to make a case for sexual assault. And now every time a female Marine misses formation, the USMC should send for NCIS to investigate if they overslept or were sexually assaulted? Why not include all of the male Marines also…the USMC can become a babysitting service.

    The USMC is an EMPLOYER and the Marines are EMPLOYEES…so why doesn’t Congress just establish a Law that makes it mandatory that all employers must inform their Law Enforcement Agency that an employee has overslept and been late to work and they need to open an investigation because it is a possibility that they have been sexually assaulted.

    Again there is NO EVIDENCE HARASSMENT….No bruises, NO swelling, NO suspect. She said that Laurean DID NOT assault her! She also gave a vague description after she finally reported her allegations 5 days after it allegedly occurred. She said the alleged inicident occurred on Thursday evening, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday she reports to her UVA the allegations that she was assaulted. And yes she does have EVIDENCEd that her car was keyed, but she NEVER REPORTED it to the PMO so that it could be investigated. And the car was allegedly keyed in the barracks parking lot…anyone could have keyed her car just on general principles. But the bottom line is that she DID NOT FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS and report it to the PMO.

    What ever happened to personal responsibility, taking responsibility for our own actions. Being responsible for reporting in a timely manner those things that we need to have investigated. It seems that Maria either didn’t know how to follow simple instructions, or she expected someone to follow her around and make sure that her responsiblities were completed by someone else or she and Mary have pulled the wool over everyones eyes and what we have been told is the truth is really just PR.

    And NCIS told an OCSO investigator all about the alleged sexual asasult and that the accused was a fellow Marine on December 19, 2007…the same day as the MPR investigation began in Onslow County…once again you posting misinformation…

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 26, 2008 @ 2:47 pm

  813. The military does hold an unique governing system over information of their members , to have the Military privacy then they also take responsibility.
    Me to Iguana there are several assumptions and incomplete quotes in your post

    Comment by girdyb — August 26, 2008 @ 5:57 pm

  814. Military takes responsibility for what girdyb?

    Would you be so kind as to specifically address Me to Iguanas assumptions and incomplete quotes in their post.

    Comment by Nehi — August 26, 2008 @ 6:45 pm

  815. Some of the information you are misreporting is . we know local law enforcement had a conversation with someone, but the Military\Command (people that could assist) authorities did not know about the Missing Persons report until Dec 27th, The Military had information and was not available to communicate or cooperate. (Maria could have been killed on base and the Locals had no authority to look there) Back to the paper work…command did not get it 18 days “Command receives information regarding the MPR on December 27th”
    The Command states the On Jan 4th “At this point, the commander has no reason to believe LCpl Lauterbach is not voluntarily UA. There is no evidence she has been the victim of foul play” well the phone had been found , ATM card used, bus ticket purchased and never used… I guess NO EVIDNCE as you state
    Just saying if I was mom and my daughter was missing and I could not get an audience system in which her life was being governed by I would be very mad,,,, and then for them to tell the world “We Didn’t Know” sound familiar,,,, Maria was at fault because of paper work and Mary should not be angry because they were following a system…. And had no evidence. the Phone, The Atm Card were just not enough evidence.
    I get Ann, If Mary does not know more than we do (and I know she does) I can see why you might want a stronger case to represent change. However The Military was on the defense the whole time… I do wonder why?

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 6:51 pm

  816. The Command states the On Jan 4th “At this point, the commander has no reason to believe LCpl Lauterbach is not voluntarily UA. There is no evidence she has been the victim of foul play” well the phone had been found , ATM card used, bus ticket purchased and never used… I guess NO EVIDNCE as you state
    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 6:51 pm

    mastiffs, could it be that the MC had not yet been told by the LE what the local authorities had found?

    Comment by Nehi — August 26, 2008 @ 7:01 pm

  817. I believe (could be wrong) that the phone was turned in to the base.

    Comment by R356 — August 26, 2008 @ 7:16 pm

  818. It wasn’t the command’s responsibility to look for her. Once the MPR was filed, it was in the sheriff’s departments hands then. It isn’t her command’s responsibility to look into her bank transactions, they didn’t know about the bus ticket…it was not their jurisdiction to know. If Mary is having issues with that, then she should take it up with the sheriff’s department. Why isn’t she asking them why it wasn’t reported in the news until sometime in January? Why wasn’t it reported to the news earlier, why wasn’t she down here passing out fliers? And remember at first when her ATM card was used, even the sheriff’s department didn’t know who used it…they said “unidentified white male”…well white male was wrong wasn’t it? From what the command stated in their presser…they were not aware of the bank transaction, they didn’t know about a bus ticket, they didn’t know her phone had been found. I do believe they stated they knew none of that information until January 7th. So, why wasn’t local LE sharing information with her command?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 7:18 pm

  819. A challenge to you Where did Maria change her story excepted when Medical defined her due date.
    I will be out for a while  but I did talk to someone who knows more than I and am more confident that Mary Does knows a lot more than we do and I am sure she is aware of the Militaries defense and prepared to go through whatever it would take to change things for other woman. The fact that Maria is dead does redirect the repercussion to Mary,,, I get that,,,, No matter what you think of her, at least she has the gumption to not just sit around and do nothing. She needed Legal Council to get info from the Military, and do not assume that the reason she stayed in Ohio was from a lack of caring, she was probably advised … and I am sure that her legal council hears everything that is said in congress, so we will see how this plays out. And those records will be made public eventually I am sure.
    If you have a problem with her being in the front, inquire about the other cases, Press is about dollars,,, let them know that you will buy the paper. The girl who was murdered over seas just breaks my heart, It is real sad.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 7:21 pm

  820. R356, the phone was turned over to sheriff’s department. From what was in the news, a stranded motorist found it and was calling people in the call log. I believe they called the family who then advised the person to turn it over to the sheriff’s department.

    Mastiff’s, you say that you know Mary has more information than we do. And that’s possible…however, I dont’ believe she has everything. But how do you know that she knows more since you state above that you haven’t talked to her in awhile now.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 7:21 pm

  821. Ann I know it was not command to look for her off base, but Local LE can not look for her on Base with out the chain of command etc…
    The Fact the Onslow had given there case to the Command and there was no response for a long time is the issue. Not that they should have sent out recon looking…. we are talking about giving access to search on base , share information etc….

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 7:24 pm

  822. Nehi “mastiffs, could it be that the MC had not yet been told by the LE what the local authorities had found?

    Not according to the Military, tey were informed Dec ? (I forget but it is in there initial press conferance the one that Me to Iguana quotes

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

  823. Why would the command look for her on base when they had a letter that was in her handwriting that said she was leaving the Marine Corps?

    Military didn’t know anything about the bus ticket, atm, anything…until January 7th. They didn’t know anything in December.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 7:34 pm

  824. “On Monday, January 7, 2008, LCpl Lauterbach’s mother and uncle arrive at Camp Lejeune earlier than expected accompanied by an Onslow County Sheriff’s Office Detective and ask for a meeting with NCIS and the command. Regimental legal officer attends the meeting once the request was sent via the proper protocol. This is the first indication to the command that foul play may be suspected in her absence. During the afternoon, LCpl Lauterbach’s section SNCOIC calls the Camp Lejeune Naval Hospital to ask if she had attended her December 26th OB appointment. Through either a mistake or confusion, the SNCOIC is told she had attended the appointment. The correct information regarding her attendance at the November 26th appointment and failure to attend the December 26th appointment was not received until January 9th.”

    Also this:

    “I’d like to discuss briefly some specific information received by the command and when it was received:

    • Information regarding a $700 ATM withdrawal made on December 14th was provided to the command on January 9th.

    • Information regarding the purchase of the Greyhound bus ticket to El Paso on December 15th was provided to the command on January 9th.

    • Information regarding LCpl Lauterbach’s cell phone being recovered and the circumstances of the recovery was provided to the command on January 9th.

    • Information regarding an unidentified male withdrawing $400 from LCpl Lauterbach’s account on December 24th is provided on January 9th.

    • Information regarding LCpl Lauterbach’s vehicle being found near the Greyhound bus station in Jacksonville on January 7th was provided on January 9th.”

    **This is what they said in their statement. Got this from the archives at JD News.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 7:41 pm

  825. AnnDaniel ; The military was TOLD and did not respond, until Jan 7 – 9 that is my point, read the Militaries press release, Folks were on Holiday leave so nothing was done..
    From the Opinion I get here , that the ATM , Phone and un used bus ticket . she did not pack, and pregnant , If that was not enough to get someone’s attention I do not know what would be. These action say that (even if she intended to go UA) something is wrong.. Even if you think she intended to get on the bus,,, something’s wrong she didn’t
    And they knew she had enemies
    If I hear one more time that well know thought etc…. I will content that they were wrong

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 7:43 pm

  826. Can you read? I mean really, I’m asking that honestly. The statement I posted above CLEARLY states “We did not receive this information until January 9th.” So how were they told when they CLEARLY state they did not receive anything until the 9th?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 7:53 pm

  827. And this information came straight from the press release…so I don’t have a clue what the hell you’re reading or where you’re getting your information from. But I guess you pick and choose what to believe or not believe…especially when it comes to the military.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 7:55 pm

  828. AnnDaniel ; There is a diff between someone taking the report and speeking to the powers to be “On Wednesday, December 19th, 2007, Ohio authorities contacted local law enforcement authorities here in Onslow County about the Missing Persons Report. Onslow County Sheriff’s Office notifies the Naval Criminal Investigative Service of the MPR. The notification went to the Onslow County Sheriff’s Office as LCpl Lauterbach’s residence falls within County jurisdiction. The command is not notified of the MPR until December 27th. ”
    It took 18 days for command to get the info.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 7:56 pm

  829. Ann , The point you are making Please read the above it is from the same report,
    There is a 18 day delay to pass on the info in the current system

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 7:57 pm

  830. Wow. This board has turned into a pissing contest. A logical, fact finding, adult minded take on things have left the screen. It’s a shame.

    Comment by Nehi — August 26, 2008 @ 7:59 pm

  831. Can you not count either? The MPR was file on the 19th, they find out on the 27th–that’s only 8 days…but NCIS knew on the 19th so where is the problem. NCIS knew the same day the MPR was filed and was working with local investigators.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 8:02 pm

  832. Nehi, some here just want to pick and choose what to believe…especially if it doesn’t fit this “conspiracy theory” they have or if it doesn’t fit with what they believe or hear say.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 8:05 pm

  833. AnnDaniel ;
    Your Right 8 days from this report, but they did not respond for an additional 10 days Jan 7th could be longer if you look at the 9th
    “but NCIS knew on the 19th so where is the problem. NCIS knew the same day the MPR was filed and was working with local investigators.”
    REALLY they were working with Locals and did not know about the evidence at Command until Jan 7th and 9th,,, that simply does not make sense

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 8:10 pm

  834. There is a diff between someone taking the report and speaking to the powers to be “On Wednesday, December 19th, 2007, Ohio authorities contacted local law enforcement authorities here in Onslow County about the Missing Persons Report. Onslow County Sheriff’s Office notifies the Naval Criminal Investigative Service of the MPR. The notification went to the Onslow County Sheriff’s Office as LCpl Lauterbach’s residence falls within County jurisdiction. The command is not notified of the MPR until December 27th. ”
    It took 8 days for command to get the info. an additional 11 to 13 days for them to receive the additional information,,,, Do you know why, The Military states, Because we went on holiday break.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 26, 2008 @ 8:15 pm

  835. They weren’t on holiday leave on all those days…yea they had Christmas break but there is always someone on duty-day and night and that person always can call the CO if needed. They had no idea until the 7th of January that foul play was suspected and that was when Mary and Pete came to the base. But again, you pick and choose.

    The command was in contact with Mary and Mary never told them she felt foul play was involved and it was the command that told Mary to file the MPR because they weren’t allowed to. Even the sheriff’s department didn’t suspect foul play at first. The sheriff made a plea to Maria to come back home. Why isn’t Mary all over him for doing that? Why isn’t she trying to sue the sheriff’s department? Again, I ask you, why wasn’t Maria’s story out in the media sooner than January?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 26, 2008 @ 8:39 pm

  836. Mastiffs, guess what, the system does work for those that do properly report a rape. Some do call the police, get a rape kit done, etc, etc. I stated before on this blog, earlier, that I had a military friend who was raped by a military male. Beaten, strangled, raped, by someone she knew. The only thing that saved her life was a kick to the groin area. She managed to escape and report the rape to the authorities. The male was convicted and sentenced to Leavenworth. Much to your displeasure, there is a system that works in the military. But, it, just like anything else, only works, if applied. I am sorry that Maria died the horrible way she did, and I am sorry that have to keep pointing your finger at people that did not kill her. Keep your focus on that instead of why the military did not have a recon team following Maria and Laurean around. Be for real. The military is a very structured environment, not some fantasy cartoon you keep making up.

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 26, 2008 @ 10:22 pm

  837. [quote]Some of the information you are misreporting is . we know local law enforcement had a conversation with someone, but the Military\\Command (people that could assist) authorities did not know about the Missing Persons report until Dec 27th,[/quote]

    NCIS is a Law Enforcement Agency. They investigate crimes committed by and against Marines stationed within their jurisdiction. UA Marines would also be within their jurisdiction. But there is a 30 day waiting period for the UA Marine to turn themselves into their commands. It is NCIA who shares information with other Law Enforcement Agencies, as in this case Onslow County and SBI.

    The USMC is NOT a Law Enforcement Agency, it turns over to NCIS all cases that fall within the jurisdiction of NCIS. They DO NOT hunt down UA Marines…or investigate crimes…they immediately turn the information over to NCIS. As in this case LCpl Lauterbach when she reported the alleged sexual assault to her command, they turned it over to NCIS to investigate. NCIS was in full control of that investigation. They have all of the information on the case, her command does not have all the particulars of the investigation.

    Mary Lauterbach filed a missing persons report in Vandalia on Dec. 18, and the police department alerted the Onslow County Sheriff\’s Office in Jacksonville.
    Lance Cpl. Lauterbach, the Marines determined, has \”voluntarily placed herself in an unauthorized absence status\” based on the note she left behind. Her car and some other personal items also were missing.
    As one first sergeant explained to Lauterbach, \”We have so many missing people we don\’t possibly have the resources to go out looking for them.\”
    http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/20/ddn012008mariainside.html

    But at the same time the first sargeant did say that the USMC did not have the authority to contact the police, but suggested that Mary do so.

    On Dec.19 Vandalia PD alerted OCSO of the MPR and JD Moore of the OCSO conducted a preliminary investigation and opened an OSCSO incident/Investigation Report. His investigation lead him to believe that LCpl Lauterbach should be entered into the NCIC System as a MP at risk. The case was turned over to Sgt. Cavanagh.
    source: Probable Cause Warrant on her residence

    This is where the information was exchanged with NCIS: NCIS found out about the MPR and OCSO found out about the sexual assault investigation and the accused, as well as her UA status\’ her due date of February 14 and her Dec. 26 scheduled appointment. NCIS had all that information and passed it to OCSO.

    Dec. 18 — The section OIC calls Lauterbach’s mother to notify her of her daughter’s absence. Mother states Durham notified her on Dec. 14 of Lauterbach’s absence and that had been the date she last spoke to her daughter. Mother stated she didn’t know where she was and didn’t have reasons why she may have left.
    – Mother files a missing person report locally in Ohio. Command is not aware of this.
    – Command determines Lauterbach has voluntarily placed herself in an unauthorized absence status. The determination is based on the note left behind and items taken.
    Dec. 19 — Ohio authorities contact local law enforcement authorities in Onslow County about the missing person report. She is immediately entered into National Crime Information Center as a missing person, and an investigation begins.
    – Onslow County Sheriff’s Department notifies the Naval Criminal Investigative Service of the MPR. The notification went to the Onslow County Sheriff’s Office as Lauterbach’s residence falls within County jurisdiction.
    http://www.jdnews.com/articles/map_54317___article.html/_.html

    There was no need for the USMC to be appraised of the MPR…they already knew that she was UA. Sgt Durham had contacted someone in her command and told them she was UA. Then on Dec 18 he brought in the note in her handwriting. These were turned into NCIS because they handle all criminal investigations. There was no need to know for the command.

    Dec. 27 — Lauterbach’s leadership contacts mother for any updates she may have on her daughter’s whereabouts. Mother states she has had no further contact with her daughter and that she filed an MPR with Onslow County Sheriff’s Department.
    – Sheriff’s Department contacts Lauterbach’s OIC and confirms that the MPR exists. Detective asks for Lauterbach’s vehicle description and asks whether her OIC believed she left of her own free will.
    – This was the command’s first contact with OCSD concerning Lauterbach.
    – Command is notified by NCIS that authorities from Vandalia, Ohio, contacted Onslow County Sheriff’s Department concerning MPR that was originally filed by mother in Ohio.
    http://www.jdnews.com/articles/map_54317___article.html/_.html

    It is protocol for a Marine\’s command to contact the family to inquire if they know where the Marine is. For example a Marine travels from CLJ to Vandalia, OH and is in a vehicle accident. The police investigators would contact the family NOT the USMC if the Marine was seriously injured or is deceased. The USMC is notified by the family in this event.

    By my reckoning it has only been 10 days since she went UA. (Did not report for formation on Dec 17)

    And now we are No longer discussing the Sexual Assault Investigation. And that is what part of the problem is…you keep trying to take the OCSO investigation and the the NCIS sexual assault investigation and make them one investigation.. it is impossible to do so. NCIS is ONLY investigating the alleged sexual assault and her UA status.

    Since LCpl Lauterbach resided within Onslow County NEITHER NCIS NOR the USMC had jurisdiction. Onslow County has complete control over the MPR investigation and the murder investigation. NCIS is a sister law enforcement agency which is assisting the Onslow County Investigators. The USMC has nothing to do with the investigations—once again the USMC is NOT a Law Enforcement Agency.and as such is ONLY entitled to whatever EVIDENCE that Onslow County wants to share with NCIS to pass onto the USMC.

    [quote[The Command states the On Jan 4th “At this point, the commander has no reason to believe LCpl Lauterbach is not voluntarily UA. There is no evidence she has been the victim of foul play” well the phone had been found , ATM card used, bus ticket purchased and never used… I guess NO EVIDNCE as you state[/quote]

    There is NO EVIDENCE that has to do with the sexual assault that happened in their jurisdiction! The EVIDENCE cell phone found in Onslow County\’s jurisdiction, the illegal use of her ATM card and the bus ticket not being used is all EVIDENCE that pertains to the Onslow County investigations, not the NCIS sexual assault investigation.

    The purchase of the bus ticket would be Evidence to support that LCpl Lauterbach had left the note and walked away from the USMC. It would support the fact that she had indeed gone UA, the NCIS UA investigation. But then again the USMC didn\’t have that information..NCIS did.

    [quote]Just saying if I was mom and my daughter was missing and I could not get an audience system in which her life was being governed by I would be very mad,,,, and then for them to tell the world “We Didn’t Know” sound familiar,,,, Maria was at fault because of paper work and Mary should not be angry because they were following a system…. And had no evidence. the Phone, The Atm Card were just not enough evidence.[/quote]

    Law Enforcement has a Chain of Command, as does NCIS, as does the USMC. You start at the bottom of the chain and work your way up the chain until you reach the level that can answer your questions. The USMC had made itself available to Mary Lauterbach when they called her at her home. They called her when her daughter disappeared and again 10 days later. After 7 months of investigation by NCIS, is it truly possible that Maria never told her mother that NCIS was in charge of her investigation? Mary would have to contact the OCSO to discuss her MPR. And she would have to contact NCIS to discuss the sexual assault investigation and the UA. At any time she could have discussed the status of the investigations with either Law Enforcement Agency…they knew more than the USMC did since they were the ones doing the investigation.

    And at NO time was Mary denied an \”audience\” with her command, but her command was NOT conducting the investigation, NCIS was.

    And pray tell me what the EVIDENCE of her phone and the ATM card had to do with the sexual assault investigation or the fact that she was UA?

    [quote]If Mary does not know more than we do (and I know she does) I can see why you might want a stronger case to represent change. However The Military was on the defense the whole time… I do wonder why?[/quote]

    The USMC was NOT on the defensive at any time. They actually broke from their usual stoic silence and gave as much information as they could considering the fact that NCIS was still investigating the alleged sexual assault and Onslow County was investigating her murder..

    LCpl Lauterbach lived off base in a private home in a residential area…how was the USMC supposed to know that she intended to go UA? LCPL Lauterbach was an adult, she could go where she wanted to go as long as she returned in time to be in formation at 0730. Many Marines from Ohio make a 72 to go home on along weekend, in this case she had 67 hours to make the round trip.

    You are making the assumption that she had enemies…there is NO EVIDENCE of any enemies, maybe she had a guilty conscience? And there was NO EVIDENCE that she was afraisd of Laurean, she had plenty of opportunity to tell NCIS SA Grafton, her UVA, her CVA, the Chaplain, her counselor etc.

    And how about the fact that NCIS has a witness that states that Maria and Cesar were in contact with one another during the late summer and early fall? And how scared couold Maria have been on Dec 14, when she violated the MPO went to the Laurean home…the home of her alleged rapist and his wife who called her names? And there is NO EVIDENCE that she was forced to go there otherwise Cesar would have been charged with Kidnapping.
    .

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 27, 2008 @ 4:46 am

  838. Hi Iguana – where did the information that NCIS had a witness come from? I haven’t seen that and don’t remember that being mentioned before.

    Comment by R356 — August 27, 2008 @ 3:50 pm

  839. Iguana you sound angry , I can understand why Mary would be angry if it was taking a while to run up the chain of command, that would piss me off if my daughter was missing. BTW Maria did tell “Lisa she was afraid and Grafftin did believe her. There were plenty of warning signs that something bad was going to happen. So in Hindsight give a little credit, Remember all those Marines that followed those perfect rules you claim also thought Cesar was Stellar. I think their investigation was flawed. THEY WERE WRONG Cesar is not a Stellar Marine and Maria apparently had reasons to fear… These are not assumptions Maria was Murdered and the Alleged Killer was considered Stellar at the end of the process that the Marines Followed.

    Concerning your statement “You are making the assumption that she had enemies…there is NO EVIDENCE of any enemies” The girl was MURDERED, You are making the assumption Maria was so afraid of an Article 32 that it would be the reason to leave. Maybe she felt trapped couldn’t get away from Cesar because of the Marines
    We also Assume Cesar motive was the rape allegation but we say there was no evidence for a rape case.. then Cesar did not fear rape.
    The way you read the evidence to me is very flawed

    Are you also the one at the Kid Table said you would hurt the Lauterbach family at any cost?

    Comment by alps — August 27, 2008 @ 5:44 pm

  840. R356

    It was mentioned by NCIS at one of the Q&A ‘s sessions…

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 27, 2008 @ 6:00 pm

  841. Me to Iguana, boy you really did your homework, that’s a long post!!!

    Comment by justice4all — August 27, 2008 @ 7:17 pm

  842. alps, the USMC does not conduct investigations, period. Can I borrow your crystal ball sometime? I don’t think anyone can ever know when a person is going to murder someone. Wish it were as simple as looking at a person and just getting a vibe. Many people in this country would still be alive.

    Comment by Nehi — August 27, 2008 @ 7:29 pm

  843. alps

    Why in the world would you believe that I am angry? Quite the contrary, I have no axes to grind with anyone.

    “Lisa” is the pseudonym by the media for a person who agreed to appear on a television program as long as she could hide her identity. So what is her real name? And NCIS SA Grafton has never said that she believed “Lisa”.

    What warning signs are you referring to? Where is the proof that there were warning signs.?

    Where is the evidence to support your claims? Now I am talking about actual physical evidence that could be taken before a court of law. You just can’t accuse a person of a crime on circumstantial evidence or a theory. You must have physical evidence against the person, in order to make a charge. That is what was missing in Lauterbach’s allegations.

    Laurean was a Stellar Marine, a leader, the go to man in his unit. Those are facts and his SRB supports that title. He was a stellar Marine right up to the time that he went UA. There is NO evidence that Laurean sexually assaulted Lauterbach. It was a she, said, he said situation. The USMC was not wrong in their assessment of Laurean. Just as they were not wrong in their assessment of Lauterbach.

    During the Press Conference that the USMC gave Lt Col Hill was giving background on the two Marines. And her used the past tense when he gave both of their backgrounds. Before Dec 14, 2007 Laurean had been a stellar Marine. He was a top Marine based on his evaluations and his PFT scores. Before Dec 14, 2007 Lauterbach was a solid Marine based on her evaluations and PTF scores as well as she had been caught lying and stealing.

    As I recall Capt. Sutherland has said that they believe that they know what happened on Dec 14, 2007 at the Laurean home. As a result of that belief and the physical evidence they have so far, Laurean has been charged with the crime. Laurean has yet to have his day in court. to defend himself against these charges. Until such time he is not a murderer.

    The investigation of Lauterbach’s allegations of sexual assault never produced any evidence that she was afraid of Laurean. Lauterbach stated to investigators that the March 26th sexual encounter was consensual. The USMC has stated that at no time did Lauterbach tell her command that she was afraid of Laurean. NCIS SA Grafton has stated that she never told her that she was afraid and that there was no record anywhere that Lauterbach said that she was afraid of Laurean. And the question still remains, Why did Lauterbach willingly go to the home of the man she had accused of sexual assault? Why would an alleged sexual assault victim go to the home of her alleged assaliant?

    The statement is correct, the poster was making assumptions that she had enemies. There is no evidence that she had enemies. Evidence is that which supports a statement. Throughout my entire post I referred to evidence, the evidence that brings credence to what is a theory. And there was not evidence that she had enemies. Again the post is about the sexual assault not the murder. There was no evidence that she had enemies right up until the time that she vanished. The sexual assault investigation is concluded, there was no evidence to support her allegations nor that she had enemies. The murder investigation is being done by Onslow County, their evidence will be admitted to the court and used in an entirely different case. The murder is not the subject of this thread. The sexual assault is.

    And NO you are making the assumption that she left because of the Article 32, I have not made that assumption. The evidence may or may not support that premise, but we are not privy to that evidence.

    As it stands right now the murder case consists of:
    a- Mary Lauterbach’s interpretation of what her daughter allegedly told her
    b- Christina Laurean’s interpretation of what her husband alledgedly told her as told to investigators
    c- Released Court documents interpreted by us
    d- a,b c passed to us through the media and it’s sources

    I choose to wait for the real evidence that will be brought out at Laurean’s trial.

    There is no evidence to support Lauterbach’s allegations that Laurean sexually assaulted her. He is charged with her murder, but he has not been found guilty of her murder. Yet Mary Lauterbach continues to give her interpretation of what Maria allegedly told her. She offers no evidence that what she says is exactly what her daughter told her. Mary Lauterbach insists that her daughter was a victim of sexual assault and yet there is no evidence that LCpl Lauterbach was sexually assaulted. Two Congresspersons are using Mary Lauterbach’s alleged “testimony” which is essence is heresay to support their legislation. Her alleged “testimony” and the Congresspersons endorsement sends a message that Cpl Laurean is a rapist and a murderer, neither of which has been proven by a court of law.

    Cpl Laurean is being denied his rights under the Constitution. Is this then to set the precedent for future cases….media innuendo and editorials for evidence, trial by public opinion with Congressional approval?

    I have never been to the Kid Table…

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 27, 2008 @ 7:45 pm

  844. Sorry justice4all guess I need a course in editing…

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 27, 2008 @ 7:50 pm

  845. In light of the one or two who are here pushing their agendas, let ‘em have at it. They’ll never believe anything other than what they want to believe. The facts are irrelevant to them.

    So Iguana you are wasting your time presenting the facts (as we know them presently) to those two since their only goal is to push their agenda down other people’s throats. And since you aren’t following their “game plan” you are now considered a Cesar lover. Isn’t that about the most childish thing you’ve ever heard of?

    To heck with the Constitution, just hang him on the spot and be done with it.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 27, 2008 @ 8:09 pm

  846. Come on you guys, you say things like you know the conception date but ocod has made it clear” medical is not being released,” nor Due dates for baby: QUOTE “I am unsure of the due date information. Her medical records would not be released by our Agency.” Or the Marine Corps.
    And you say you know the Militaries response LOL , and I am the one assuming things when I say Cesar was a threat to Maria, this is a joke I promise you the statement that Cesar was a threat is less assumptive than you KNOWING THE MILITARIES RESPONSE TO TURNER and the numbskulls here believe it.
    What you say took investigators 7 months to investigate but you think we know all the answers and believe they are all pro military. The one who claims to have the most evidence really has the least. There are several things they are missing
    When Grafton said “if the family knew what we (Military knew) Mary would not be saying what she was saying “ (I have paraphrased) Could she have meant we have more on Cesar than the family thinks (I don’t think that but I am just saying think outside of yourself this case is not all that complicated ) If you believe Grafton then you must believe that they know more than YOU know , because the Family sure knows more than we do, and Grafton knows more than we do (well you get my point)
    I do understood a mothers frustration with the military, her daughter was missing her cell phone was found in the street a bus ticket was purchased and not used and she was late in her pregnancy, and as the marines state. Mary had called and voiced her concerns however the command was not notified until Dec 7th that my friend is a long time. And when you begin to not understand that fundamental then why are you even discussing this

    Comment by alps — August 27, 2008 @ 9:07 pm

  847. Me to Iguana Concening “Lisa” is the pseudonym ” well that obious , remember there were death threats and many people that supported maria were getting them.
    Think outside the box.

    Comment by alps — August 27, 2008 @ 9:31 pm

  848. Me to Iguana Concerning “the poster was making assumptions that she had enemies. There is no evidence that she had enemies. Evidence is that which supports a statement.” The Fact that Maria reported (although not enough evidence) however the fact that she was Murdered says a great deal about the story she was telling people before the Murder

    Concerning “And how about the fact that NCIS has a witness that states that Maria and Cesar were in contact with one another during the late summer and early fall?” the MILITARY ACUALLY STATES that there was no evidence that the MPO was violated on either side.
    THESE FACTS ARE IN THE INTIAL PRESS REALSE THAT YOU ONLY QUOTE IN PART.
    But the answers are not there. As stated before. let go of your anger and the case is very straight forward.
    I guess if I post here every 3 or 4 weeks I am shoving thought down your throat. :-)

    Comment by alps — August 27, 2008 @ 9:42 pm

  849. [quote]Maria gasped out the words between sobs: “Mom, I was attacked.”

    She didn’t reveal the name of her attacker, only that he was Hispanic, a married man with a child. She said the two Marines had been assigned to night duty together when the man locked all the doors and raped her.

    “Maria, when did that happen?” her mother asked.

    “April 10.”

    “You realize you’ve lost all your evidence now?”[/quote] (daytondailynews.com)

    Mary was absolutely right when she told Maria this…she didn’t have any evidence to prove her allegations . Further there were no witnesses to the alleged sexual assault nor a crime scene.

    Bottom line there was no sexual assault charges against Laurean, because there was no evidence. Just like Mary said she had lost all her evidence”..if there every was any to begin with.

    Further the article quotes Mary as warning her daughter about the consequences of making false allegations.

    The USMC considers the sexual assault iinvestigation concluded. Data available online.

    OCSO has confirmed Lauterbach’s due date as February 14. This is in a document available online.

    Lt Genl Kramlich’s letter in response to Turner’s questions is in document form online.

    NCIS supplied Lauterbach’s due date to OCSO. The USMC probably did not have Lauterbach’s due date, NCIS had it in their sexual assault investigation files. NCIS verified that information to OCSO.

    There is a distinction between the investigative service (NCIS) and the non-investigative service (USMC)

    A sexual assault happens in a large company, the local law enforcement is called to investigate. The local law enforcement does not open their files to the large company and share information.

    Months later the victim in the large company becomes a victim within the jurisdiction of the local sheriff’s department. The Sheriff’s department asks the local pd to share information and the local pd confirms the information requested from their files. The large company is not investigating the crime.

    In this scenario we see the same relationship that exists between NCIS and OCSO they have the investigation files,, The USMC does not have those investigative files, NCIS does.

    OCSO updates NCIS and vice versa leaving the USMC out of the loop…

    Why would the USMC be given the information about the phoone, the unused ticket or the ATM card transaction? NCIS had that information.

    Likewise when Mary filed the MPR with Vandalia the local PD she received a call from OCSO and was asked to give information about Maria. She knew that OCSO was doing the investigation. She had already been told by Maria’s command that they werenot conductiong an investigation nor could they file the MPR.

    The USMC has no control over the MP investigation being done by OCSO. OCSO has no reason to give information to the USMC. On Dec 27 the USMC called Mrs. Lauterbach and asked her for an update. This is when they found out about the MPR. Then the first contact between OCSO was initiated.

    Again the USMC was not investigating the alleged sexaul assault, nor the MPO. NCIS was the investigating agency. The USMC says they have no evidence that the MPO was violated. But NCIS said at during the PC that they had a lead.

    Death threats? No i do not recall any mention of death threats.

    The fact that she was murdered says that someone murdered her and OCSO may have the evidence to prove who it was and why.

    As I told you before I am not angry…perhaps you should take your own advice.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 28, 2008 @ 12:46 am

  850. Mary knows that there was no evidence of a sexual assasult. She knew from the getgo that Maria had lost all her evidence, if she ever had any. She warned Maria not to make false allegations. And yet Mary is making allegations to Congress and the World. And the Congresspersons are supporting her falsehoods.

    No one knows if Maria was sexually assaulted, there was no evidence to support her allegations. Yet when Mary goes before Congress she wants them to think of Maria aa a victim of sexual assault in the military even though the one she accused was never charged in the crime or convicted. Maria would try to lie herself out of the situations she had gotten herself into. Why is Mary determined to make Maria’s legacy a pack of lies?

    How is Justice served when it accomplished by less than the Truth.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 28, 2008 @ 12:54 am

  851. Psst alps, you need to heed your own advice and let go of your own anger. You so desperately want your ASSumptions to be fact when what’s been released so far just doesn’t back you up. Plus, just out of curiousity, why do you have so much anger? I’m outraged that a homicide has occurred but not angry as in say a family’s anger.

    But hey that’s okay, it’s your right, so just keep on keeping on pushing your agenda. I’ll just wait patiently until the trial process occurs and we’ll see all the evidence laid out then.

    You may be surprised at what’s really contained in all those files. And what happens if your assumptions turn out to be just those? Will you have the decency to post here and say oh I was wrong or will you yell conspiracy or it’s all lies? I know I certainly will apologize if I’m off in left field.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 28, 2008 @ 1:15 am

  852. The only person that received so called “death threats” is the girl here in Jacksonville that had a myspace page up. And those Marines were cleared of sending those to her. One even had stated that he was filing suit against her for defamation because he says those were altered emails and he could prove it. Nothing else was ever said and no charges were ever brought against either of those Marines. That is the only death threats anyone ever received. I’ve never seen anything in print that Maria was getting death threats. Allegedly the only person that ever confronted her was Christina asking her “Why are you doing this to my family?” She tells a little personnel clerk who can’t do anything about it…and even “Lisa” that clerk, says she didn’t believe Maria when Maria said she was afraid. So she can tell her family she’s afraid, she can tell a friend of Cesar’s that she’s afraid but she can’t tell someone who can actually do something about it? Also, we dont’ know why Maria was murdered…perhaps it’s because she made false allegations, perhaps it’s because she was raped…that’s not up to me…I can see either scenario happen.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 28, 2008 @ 7:06 am

  853. I am still waiting on one of the many family members, who post on this blog to answer the same question, that seems to be so readily ignored. If Mary thought that the military was was treating Maria “badly,” regarding her “attack,” allegations, then why wasn’t she on the very first plane flight down here? Why? Because she didn’t believe Maria either. Now, she is making NCIS, etc out to be blundering idiots! Yet, Mary was the one given the attack info, waaaay back last year, and she did nothing. She sat on that info for months. So, of course, many on this blog are questioning her sudden stampede to DC, to represent sexual assaulted females in the military. Why the sudden interest now, when her dau was attacked 16 months ago????

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 28, 2008 @ 10:22 am

  854. Unenlisted That was answered here and under a different category. I think she was advised not to and remain in Dayton hoping Maria would show up.
    What other family members are posting I saw Mastiffs, Ann Lauterbachs name and Bartender who else Would you rather they did not post?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 28, 2008 @ 10:33 am

  855. Anon, I am talking about when Maria first told Mary she was attacked, not when she reported her missing. I keep hearing how NCIS blundered the rape investigation, and let Laurean roam free. I want to know why Mary, who Maria confided in, every single day, did nothing, until her dau went missing in Dec. And don’t say that parents do not get involved. They do, they call their child’s command, sometimes show up at the command, call their state reps, or at least, show up to help sort things out. They have every right in the world to do so. I, myself think that once Maria moved off base, she should have considered getting an off base protective order. That would have given LE, off base, some info to work with, when they were first notifed, that she was missing. Hindsight is 20/20. I am positive Maria, also would have done things differently had she known the outcome, but she can’t defend herself in those regards. I too, hope that the person who murdered her is tried, convicted, and will have plenty of time to think about what he should have done differently. Plenty of people should have done things differently in this case. But as someone stated earlier on this blog, they did not have a crystal ball to foresee the future.

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 28, 2008 @ 12:27 pm

  856. If Maria herself wasn’t happy with the way the rape allegations/investigation was handled, she could have requested mast or she could have gone to her state rep. I don’t have a daughter but I know that if I got a phone call and she said she was attacked, I would be to her as soon as I could…just for support.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 28, 2008 @ 12:57 pm

  857. AnnD, agreed would have been down here in a heart beat. Boat, plane, bus, car, carriage, whatever it took to find out what was going on with my dau. The allegations alone would put any parent in a frenzy. I did think about the request mast also, along with the chaplain, the usual routes most Marines use. But, not Maria, she confided in her mom, every day, no less.

    Comment by Unenlisted — August 28, 2008 @ 1:34 pm

  858. In an interview with her Uncle Peter Steiner, a Kentucky psychiatrist..he has stated that she talked to him every two weeks.

    .Outside the family’s home in Vandalia, Ohio, on Friday night, Lauterbach’s uncle, Pete Steiner, said the rapist was the father.

    Steiner, however, said his niece didn’t have any kind of relationship with her attacker, and that Lauterbach had been forced to rent a room off base because of harassment at Camp Lejeune.

    “She was raped,” Steiner said. “The Marines, unfortunately, did not protect her, and now she’s dead.” (foxnews.com)

    I wonder where he got his information. LCpl Lauterbach has denied that Laurean was the father. Authorities have said that she and Laurean had a relationship.

    The family keeps saying that she was harassed, but we only know about the verbal confrontation between Mrs. Laurean and Lauterbach. the punch in the face allegations, that she did not report it until five days after the alleged attack and did not have any visible bruising or swelling and the keying of her car, which we never reported to the PMO.

    Steiner says she was raped, but her statements to NCIS were that the March 26 encounter was consensual and the April 10 encounter did not meet the criteria of a rape.

    Both Mary Lauterbach and Peter Steiner keep saying that the Marines did not protect her, but they didn’t do anything to protect her.

    When I had a problem I contacted the Senator from my State and all I had to do was sign a form allowing him access to my case file and he jumped in to fight for my rights.

    Funny if Mary can contact her Congressman now to go after the Marines, why didn’t she encourage Maria to contact the same Congressman to help her.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 28, 2008 @ 2:33 pm

  859. Hi, Metoiguana. I don’t think you need a course in anything at all. Seems to me that you have got a very good grasp of the situation. I am 100% in agreement about the Congress situation. I had a very long post on the first time Mary met with Turner. I was aghast at the situation. Congresspersons Turner and Harmon are in full cry, though, and every word robs all of us of our constitutional rights. It is our right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt (one for which there is a “reason”) in a court of law!!!! If even one person’s rights are violated, or denied, we are ALL at risk for the same treatment. I did a bit of research on Turner, and would you believe he is a LAWYER?

    Comment by justice4all — August 28, 2008 @ 3:07 pm

  860. Maybe in hindsight, Mary realizes that she should have done something about Maria’s lying problem and she feels guilty about letting the problem fester until it led to a combustive tragic ending. For her, it is probably easier to find someone else to blame thereby deflecting her guilt, even though deep down inside she probably feels some guilt in regard to Maria..

    You would think that her brother, a shrink, could help her. However, he seems to have the same issues as Mary. I think that is why Pete publicly announced Maria’s past. He wants to believe that the lying problem was a result of Maria’s first 19 months of life living with her young adult mother and behaviorally challenged father in Bradenton. I don’t know many people who can remember back to when they were 19 months old, so personally I don’t buy that crap. Plus, the Smalleys and the LeVans probably helped take care of the girls during that time. They are probalby the ones who called social services on Sheila and her husband.

    Mary’s trip to congress is her way of dealing with her guilt.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 28, 2008 @ 3:19 pm

  861. Ann, there could be many reasons why Maria was murdered. None will be an excuse. However, in my opinion, just showing up at his door is dangerous. If she went voluntarily it was poor judgement. If she went under pressure we’d have to figure out just how someone got her to go to the house. I hope all of this is revealed at the trial.

    Comment by justice4all — August 28, 2008 @ 3:19 pm

  862. This is the same Congress that wants to hold a Constitutional Committee to change the Constitution…I see this as just more evidence that we need to become even more responsible voters in this election, or soon we may see the erosion of our precious Constitutional Rights… We the PEOPLE should not mean, we the Congress will pick and choose who and which rights we will allow.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 28, 2008 @ 3:21 pm

  863. Hi Justice – I think you’ll find that the vast majority in DC are lawyers. However, there are many kinds of lawyers.

    Comment by R356 — August 28, 2008 @ 3:30 pm

  864. Anon. I was distressed by Uncle Peter’s revelations. Those girls were so young when they left their mom and dad and they ARE in the same family, just a different branch of it. Villifying their mom and dad is tactless and unkind. It would have been much better just to have said, “your parents just couldn’t make a home for you and we were so happy to have you with us!”

    Comment by justice4all — August 28, 2008 @ 3:33 pm

  865. Hi R356, we have to be careful how we pronounce that LAWYER word, sounds a bit like LIAR sometimes!!!!!!

    Iguana, I have agonized over the very same issues. Anybody who doesn’t want to vote also doesn’t get to gripe!!!!

    Comment by justice4all — August 28, 2008 @ 3:35 pm

  866. Agreed…but then again I have never missed an election since I was 21….waaay back then when the legal age was 21…Unfortunately it was for Nixon, but what can I say I was young and impressionable

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 28, 2008 @ 3:52 pm

  867. Will you please post The link for the official report on the due date and the complete response to turners questions Thank You

    Comment by Anonymous — August 28, 2008 @ 4:13 pm

  868. I would like to see those links also.
    I disagree with your assumptions , We must remember Maria was not tried for lying either. Presume her innocent. You assume I was blaming the Military when all I said was , I could understand a mother who had evidence that something was wrong with Maria when she went missing and she could not get a hold of the Marines to discuss what happened or what had been going on. The Marines (who cares what dept, had more info than Mary) She needed to hire an attorney to get even the basic answers like When was the official due date of my grandchild. This is ridiculous.
    Look at all the questions you seem to have , and your writing has a tone of entitlement. BUT you say “How dare the mother of a missing person, expect an audience with the Marines in a timely manner”. Sad State if that is what you are thinking. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO ANSWERS BUT MARY IS NOT..I would have expected the marines to speak to me if my child was missing and Oh yes I would have been very upset if they didn’t.
    You Also talk about trying this case in the press, I assure you , Maria character has been tried and convicted by this blog. The press in general has seemed to be more reasonable.

    By the way , the case in congress is not about Maria. And Maria is a very small part. Mary will have to confront any lies if she is lying Trust the system .. after all the are just following procedures nothing wrong.

    Concerning the Links about the due date , I have looked and can not find them I am finding just the opposite. I see it would not be realesed

    Comment by alps — August 28, 2008 @ 5:01 pm

  869. Alps – Do you seriously think that there is an actual link that contains Maria’s medical record that shows the due date on the internet? Think HIPPA.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 28, 2008 @ 5:19 pm

  870. Maybe Alps should see if she can get a hold of Rob Sharpe and see if he still has a copy.

    Comment by Suggestion — August 28, 2008 @ 5:25 pm

  871. O Gee, may because the poster above claiming to voice no opinion (don’t get me wrong her opinion I interesting but it’s not fact.
    example say things like why Lisa hid her identity ,and pretends to know Why Lisa hid her identity is not known
    and she assumes Lauterbach went to the house willing “ Why did Lauterbach willingly go to the home of the man she had accused of sexual assault? Why would an alleged sexual assault victim go to the home of her alleged assaliant?”
    Things like “they were not aware of the bank transaction, they didn’t know about a bus ticket, they didn’t know her phone had been found. I do believe they stated they knew none of that information until January 7th. So, why wasn’t local LE sharing information with her command?”
    The Command was not told but because of the process (keep reading her post you will see where it was reported incidence were reported just the process was long, Hence my point. But she presents like fact that OCSD did not turn info over until that date.
    Her Comment stating as fact
    “This is where the information was exchanged with NCIS: NCIS found out about the MPR and OCSO found out about the sexual assault investigation and the accused, as well as her UA status\’ her due date of February 14 and her Dec. 26 scheduled appointment. NCIS had all that information and passed it to OCSO.” I would like to see the post that says Feb 14th is the due date confirmed.
    Then she wants to appear so righteous and say
    Cpl Laurean is being denied his rights under the Constitution. Is this then to set the precedent for future cases….media innuendo and editorials for evidence, trial by public opinion with Congressional approval? But she does not extend the same to the victim!

    Comment by alps — August 28, 2008 @ 5:59 pm

  872. No worries there will be no more post here from me. there are sights that hear Sheriff brown say (when sharpe was arrested that there is a lot of evidence that has not been released and supportive of Maria.)
    A few months ago I came hear because I heard this is where Cesar and Christian would search to get info.
    I had wondered what was so interesting

    Comment by alps — August 28, 2008 @ 6:02 pm

  873. http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jzdo7l-20080409marinecorpsmarialauterbachletterresponse.pdf

    http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/1200068360-lauterbachinvestigationdocumnetsrevised.pdf

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 28, 2008 @ 6:38 pm

  874. Questions from Turner to the USMC: http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-03-11-0020.html#s

    Response from the USMC to Congressman Turner: http://media.mgnetwork.com/nct/images/links/marinequestions.pdf

    Knock yourself out reading alps….and the confusion about whether the USMC answered ALL the questions by Turner…that one can be attributed to none other than Turner since he only released selected excerpts from the USMC response per wdtn.com’s website.

    And try reading the Search Warrants/Affidavits from 1/7/08 on. You’ll see there this confirmation of the due date as being 2/14/08.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 28, 2008 @ 6:53 pm

  875. alps, that’s a very interesting statement about Sheriff Brown’s comment.

    The trouble with the rape case is the lack of actual evidence. I note that her command, and NCIS really did take notice and opened an investigation and did all the things they normally do, but IMO they were on a “cold trail” with the exception of Maria’s pregnancy.

    I feel that they were waiting for the birth and then would take a dna sample to see if it matched Cesar’s dna, and if it did it would prove that he lied when he said he had had no sexual contact with Maria. Even NCIS and the military know that babies don’t just start up by magic!! Other than a match with the dna, NCIS was no further along with any actual evidence.

    I hope that a lot of information is released at the trial. No matter who said what, or what Maria reported, or didn’t report, or who was lying and who was telling the truth, or any other consideration whatever, NOBODY has the right to murder anybody. Maybe if Maria really had gone UA she might be around now!!

    Comment by justice4all — August 28, 2008 @ 7:48 pm

  876. alps,

    You seem to think that I am making assumptioons…I was asking questions. For example Why would a victim of an alleged rape go willingly to thehome of her alleged rapist? Not an assumption. She was found at that location. Not casting aspersions on Lauterbach’s character. It was a question not meant anything but a question…

    There are facts in the ase that are contradict each other. There are questions that are being asked. Many people do not realize that only NCIS and OCSO are law enforcement agencies and that they chare information with each other. Some people believe that the USMC investigates the crimes on base or a UA Marine. Aside from keeping a record of the days a Marine is UA,, it is just like the first Sergeant told Mary, we don’t search. In light of this fact is makes a good case as to why the USMC did not have the information about the ATM transaction,, the recovery of her cell phone, nor the unused bus ticket . In it certainly possible that the USMC went to NCIS and asked for an update on their investigation in preparation after Mary Lauterbach called to tell them she would be there on Jan.7. Mary Lauterbach has used every opportunity to portray her daughter as “the perfect victim” and the USMC as the villian in the piece.

    There are some who contend that because she was murdered by Laurean, she had to be sexually assaulted by him as well. The fact that there No (or if you want not enough) evidence to support her allegations coupled with her statement to NCIS and JAG that the first encounter was consensual (or as JAG stated not criminal) and the second encounter she told him to stop and her did (or as JAG stated did not meet the criteria for rape) and Laurean’s statement that he did not have sexual contact, pretty well lays it out that Laurean was not going to be charged with sexual assault. Wether she was sexually assaulted or not was not going to be decided in by a court..

    I tried to make it clear that the issue to be discussed was the mis-representation of the facts of the sexual assault by Lauterbach and the Congresspersons. It seems premature to say that she was sexually assauted when there has been no charges or trial. And her murder was not the part of the sexual assault investigation just as the motive for her murder has not yet been given. Like I posted the discussion and my post were about the “testimony” before Congress and the conclusions that are being drawn from the mis-representation of the facts.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 28, 2008 @ 8:07 pm

  877. It is Christina not Christian. Geez.

    Comment by Christian is a Male Name — August 28, 2008 @ 8:08 pm

  878. Christian is a Male Name, you are right, it actually is Christina, but when I was researching my family history I came across Old Parish Registers where the woman’s name was actually “Christian.” This was back in the 1700′s and early 1800′s though. I think Christian for a woman is like some of those other “boy/girl” names like Marion, Lynn, Lesley/Leslie and some others.

    Comment by justice4all — August 28, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

  879. The articles above are great. It sure clears matters up for me they make it real clear that they did not believe Maria, and Cesar was in very little danger of prosecution. The DNA was NOT going to be tested. See Q17 (yes I know they told the press they were going to who know what that’s about)
    Q 14 They state here also: after the OBGYN appointment they were not going to use the DNA for evidence. It also states that the Due Date was changed at this appointment,

    Affidavit Page 7 Say the report concerning (Maria going UA) was made “but very little done on”
    Dec 19th
    Q and A 23-25 state Onslow and Lauterbach wanted to accelerate the UA search and they were denied the accelerated process. Even though Onslow county found the case suspicious. (one reason in the Marine rules to accelerate the process in Simply Not Knowing the where abouts of the Marine. Maria falls into that category)

    IMO Sense Cesar was in no danger of prosecution in the rape Why was Cesar (or anyone at the house) mad enough to kill her? He should have been gloating ,called the cops. If Maria just showed up, Cesar was handed a little piece of revenge. He could have had Maria arrested. IMO he did not call because The Rape case and paternity case were not the motive. I hope there is a trial, I see all the information that was released is about MC rebuts with the Lautebach, we have heard very little on the murder.
    I think there is an apology due Maria also, she was not the one who changed the date as Grafton states, Grafton is very clear when she blames the due date change on Maria misjudgment, Using it as an example of Maria’s creditability issue and the statement is simply not true. In Fact Maria was doing the right thing.

    HOW MANY OF YOU THOUGHT THAT MARIA CHANGED THE DUE DATE ?
    HOW MANY OF YOU THOUGHT OBGYN CHANGES THE DATE AND MARIA WAS REPORTING THE RESULTS as she should have?
    It is not uncommon for a woman to think one due date and medical another prior to an ultrasound and it would make sense, if Maria practiced safe sex with a normal date (birth control) but during the sexual assault she there was no protection.
    Also I have read plenty of post concerning the email to a friend, “Is the pregnancy good or bad” remember her answer does not include who she thinks the father is , (she could have told her friend well I am not sure,,, meaning lets find out who the babies daddy is first.
    How Many of you thought no one had asked the chain of command to accelerate the search process ? Well They did and they were denied.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 2:40 pm

  880. How Many of you thought no one had asked the chain of command to accelerate the search process ? Well They did and they were denied.
    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 2:40 pm

    mastiffs, the military could not accelerate the search process as they have no jurisdiction to do searches in the civlian sector. The search fell under the jurisdiction of the OCSD. How could the military had accelerated the search? By law, they couldn’t. Mary was not denied, she may have seen it as such being that she is the mother, but legally the USMC could not do no more than they already had. If I remember correctly CL requested that Maria be listed as a deserter so that if by chance she was stopped by LE where ever the LE could take her into custody, however, CMC denied that request because doing so was not within the regulations/laws. In essence I beleive that the local LE could’ve and maybe should’ve put forth all the media attention out sooner. The outcome would’ve unfortunately been the same but that may have found Maria sooner.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 3:27 pm

  881. IMO he did not call because The Rape case and paternity case were not the motive.
    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 2:40 pm

    It will be interesting to see what the motive was, if that’s ever released. If in fact the rape and paternity were not the motive what the heck could it have been? I think there is alot more to this whole ordeal than what has been released.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 3:33 pm

  882. It is not uncommon for a woman to think one due date and medical another prior to an ultrasound and it would make sense, if Maria practiced safe sex with a normal date (birth control) but during the sexual assault she there was no protection.
    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 2:40 pm

    You’re right, it’s not uncommon for the mother to be to think one due date until it’s medically confirmed. That may have been what happened with Maria. Having no experience in pregnancies she may have been confused about the date. I think I stated something to this effect quite a bit ago. Isn’t birth control against Marias staunch Catholic upbringing? Doesn’t make sense to take bc for a bit, stop when not active, then start again, but this issue isn’t even the picture so I won’t contemplate it.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 3:48 pm

  883. Nehi. The word “staunch Catholic upbringing” would not be how I would describe this family. I know it is said here often. But remember there would be a man who may want protected also and sex in it self would be against “staunch Catholic upbringing” so I would say it does not apply.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 4:02 pm

  884. Nehi. The word “staunch Catholic upbringing” would not be how I would describe this family. I know it is said here often. But remember there would be a man who may want protected also and sex in it self would be against “staunch Catholic upbringing” so I would say it does not apply.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 4:02 pm

    It was just a question of curiosity mastiffs. This issue has nothing to do with the issue at hand so I shall move on.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 4:08 pm

  885. Nehi Thanks and I agree

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 4:14 pm

  886. Nehi again I hate to keep beating a dead horse, The Military does have the jurisdiction to MARIA’s Files and when the Military involves themselves in corporation with the search there is more info available for the Local P . It is one of those procedural things. They need to elevate the urgency On PAPER before they can involve themselves .
    Local Police might have felt the Marines would have some history and clues that would be useful. This order would have to be issued before that could take place

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 4:42 pm

  887. Neh I also agree about the media coming out sooner, I honestly think LE was waiting for a sit down. it is my understanding that Mary and Pete had decided to involve the Media because they felt they were not getting cooperation . It did solve the immediate problem however You are so right on NOTHING short of following Maria that day would have prevented this

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 4:46 pm

  888. Nehi again I hate to keep beating a dead horse, The Military does have the jurisdiction to MARIA’s Files and when the Military involves themselves in corporation with the search there is more info available for the Local P .
    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 4:42 pm
    Of course they have jurisdiction to Marias files. You have to remember that just like the civilian law there are certain things that can and can’t be released without property authority to do so. I recall that Laureans name was given to the local LE rather early on. I need to look for a clip/article where someone in the sheriffs office knew the name and about the alleged rape allegation as given to them by NCIS, however, for some reason that person didn’t relay Laureans name to Sheriff Brown. This clip/article may close this portion of the issue for you. I don’t see where any other information other than the alleged rape allegation and Laureans name would’ve helped the local LE find Maria. Question. Didn’t Mary know the name of Marias alleged rapist? The investigation had been going on for a bit I find it weird that Mary didn’t know. Perhaps Maria didn’t want to tell her.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 4:57 pm

  889. Neh I also agree about the media coming out sooner, I honestly think LE was waiting for a sit down. it is my understanding that Mary and Pete had decided to involve the Media because they felt they were not getting cooperation . It did solve the immediate problem however You are so right on NOTHING short of following Maria that day would have prevented this

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 4:46 pm

    There you go. If it were so urgent to find Maria why wait for a sit down. The missing case was the LE’s case they could’ve done whatever they pleased without needing approval from NCIS/USMC. Did the local LE only start pushing the missing persons report after Mary showed up at Jacksonville? So in reality it was Mary and Peter that contacted the media?

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 5:01 pm

  890. Nehi, I think the cops as a strategy to find her asked them to wait. They are the type of people who would trust the professional with experience and follow their lead, having that trust fail her, in my mind, is why she is so upset today, she was very disillusioned.
    I also imagine that she must feel that was how her daughter was being treated but did not understand that before hand. From an empathy stand point I get it! If one of my kids went missing before this happened I would not go to the Media right away, I would have a hard time with the internal pain I was experiencing and would not want to expose my pain to the world. However NOW I would be at the Media’s door the second a kid was missing. I guess hindsight is 20\20

    Please keep in mind that I can not read Mary’s Mind
    Thanks

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 5:41 pm

  891. Concerning “The missing case was the LE’s case they could’ve done whatever they pleased without needing approval from NCIS/USMC.” That is not true. The Le could not get the history with out MC corporation nor could they go on base to interview folks

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 5:43 pm

  892. Nehi “Did the local LE only start pushing the missing persons report after Mary showed up at Jacksonville? So in reality it was Mary and Peter that contacted the media?”
    I can only tell you what I remember. I was told (not by a lauterbach or Peter) that On christmas day they were looking for advise on how to excellerate the attention to the case. Now weather Onslow agree with the plan or suggeste the plan I can not tell you
    but it was not until they went to the press that they got attention from the Military
    (please remember I do not live in the same city etc.. this however is my memory from the time it occured not from the detailed stories afterwords)

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 5:48 pm

  893. mastiffs and nehi, I am just wondering about WHEN Mary got to know Laurean’s name. It seems to me that Maria didn’t actually tell the name and that Mary may have found it out either from LE or from NCIS, at about the same time the rest of us found out. What do you think?

    Also, and this is very far fetched, but it is just a brainstorm….do you suppose there was another rape incident with someone else, Otherwise, why would Maria be crying and sobbing as she called her mom to tell of the rape (Cesar) when it was quite a bit before the phone call? For me, the crying and sobbing and “mom, I’ve been attacked” seems more immediate, somehow. Just an idea, what do you two think?

    Comment by justice4all — August 29, 2008 @ 5:53 pm

  894. The Le could not get the history with out MC corporation nor could they go on base to interview folks

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 5:43 pm

    Okay, I’ll give you that, that the LE couldn’t get the history immediately. It’s not because the Lejeune Marines didn’t want to help, they couldn’t. NCIS and the Lejeune Marines could not authorize interviews etc. without higher headquarters approval just as NCIS cannot go out in town and interview whomever they wanted without the proper authorization. A civilian cannot go on a federal installation and interview whomever they wanted, it’s not within the rules/regulations/laws set forth by our federal government. I’m sure that as soon as the authorization was given the information was released. Unfortunately it wasn’t fast enough for Mary it seems. Perhaps that can be on her next agenda, allowing the federal government to release any and all info to the family.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 5:54 pm

  895. Also, and this is very far fetched, but it is just a brainstorm….do you suppose there was another rape incident with someone else, Otherwise, why would Maria be crying and sobbing as she called her mom to tell of the rape (Cesar) when it was quite a bit before the phone call?
    Comment by justice4all — August 29, 2008 @ 5:53 pm

    I don’t think that someone else may have raped her and she blamed it on Laurean. I think that was the day she either found out he was married, that’s if she really didn’t know, or the day that he may have told her the relationship had to stop. I think the crying was real but I don’t think it was because of the alleged rape I think it was because of the former.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 5:58 pm

  896. Neil, I also read that know one would answer the question that “why didn’t Mary go to Lejuene concerning the rape case” I think I just answered that. Mary trusted the Military completely. This is a Military Family and this family had never dealt with anything like this I suspect that she would have never believed you if you told her.
    “My daughter was missing and pregnant had accused someone of rape and now is missing but the military will not accelerate the investigation,. ” she would have told you that THE MILITRAY WOULD NOT DO THAT!”

    Again my disclaimer  I am speaking about how I see things I can not read her mind

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 5:58 pm

  897. Nehi I do think something happened that day. I accually think that day was the day the she relised she could not handle Cesar herself. Her crying in part I bet was her relising she was in trouble and being competative I think her fear was hard for her to face.
    Maria also knew reporting it “Their would be hell to pay” but the situation that ws going on behind the sceen was worse to her than facing NCIS

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:01 pm

  898. but it was not until they went to the press that they got attention from the Military
    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 5:48 pm

    I don’t think that the media impacted a response from NCIS/USMC. Like I’ve said earlier NCIS/USMC had to get the proper authority as to what they could or could not release.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 6:05 pm

  899. Thanks, Nehi and mastiffs. I was just racking my brains to try to make sense of it. I know the military may not have acted with the rocket-speed that might have saved the day, but I also know how bound they are by rules and of course, “the regs” and they do have to put things up the chain of command.

    Comment by justice4all — August 29, 2008 @ 6:12 pm

  900. Mary going to Lejeune when Maria announced that she had been allegedly rape to me at this point is mute. I do wonder why Mary didn’t know the name of the person whom allegedly raped Maria though. And I do wonder why she didn’t go to Jacksonville sooner regardless of what anyone told her to do, she was told to wait in the case Maria came home to Ohio. Personally I would’ve ignored that and would’ve gone to Jacksonville sooner and would’ve left my husband at home to await Maria. I see Mary to be an intelligent woman and that kinda stumps me that she didn’t think to go and leave the other parent at home.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 6:17 pm

  901. Nehi I do think something happened that day. I accually think that day was the day the she relised she could not handle Cesar herself. Her crying in part I bet was her relising she was in trouble and being competative I think her fear was hard for her to face.
    Maria also knew reporting it “Their would be hell to pay” but the situation that ws going on behind the sceen was worse to her than facing NCIS

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:01 pm

    I don’t see it that way, sorry.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 6:21 pm

  902. Nehi I can not answer mary’s Motive, but I am sure she found herself in uncertain territory and relied on the experts. sounds like being who you are that thought process is foriegn to you, Mary is inteligent and a awsome facilitator, I simply think she felt the Mraines were handling the rape
    Remember when you view what Maria has said, she is straight forward, listen and also keep in mind she is coming from 2 different directions. 1 being, how she felt and what she was thinkinf at the time and the other being how she feels and what she thinks now

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:30 pm

  903. Nehi problem. that what make the world go round she is different than you,
    How do you see it

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:32 pm

  904. ooppps on “Remember when you view what Maria has said” I meant Mary

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:33 pm

  905. Excuse me? What do you mean by “being who you are that thought process is foreign to you”?

    The Marines handled the rape allegation properly and turned over the case to NCIS for investigation. All in all they were handling the allegation.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 6:35 pm

  906. Nehi “I don’t think that the media impacted a response from NCIS/USMC. Like I’ve said earlier NCIS/USMC had to get the proper authority as to what they could or could not release.”

    it was the press I thought that assited in them changing the UA status remember the Q&A from turner they were not going to accelerate the status until at least Jan 14th

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:38 pm

  907. Neil Concerning “Excuse me? What do you mean by “being who you are that thought process is foreign to you”?” For some one who would just go , I can understand how it would be hard to understand what Mary did Not an insult.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:43 pm

  908. Concerning “Okay, I’ll give you that, that the LE couldn’t get the history immediately. It’s not because the Lejeune Marines didn’t want to help, they couldn’t. NCIS and the Lejeune Marines could not authorize interviews etc. without higher headquarters approval just as NCIS cannot go out in town and interview whomever they wanted without the proper authorization.”

    I UNDERSTAND THAT, however they could have accelerated it and SAID NOP! not doing it.
    So it was choice not to accelerate it ,there is a process when there is a sense of urgency . The Criteria is “Marine location unknown ” is enough to do that.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:50 pm

  909. it was the press I thought that assited in them changing the UA status remember the Q&A from turner they were not going to accelerate the status until at least Jan 14th

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:38 pm

    That is incorrect. Maria was placed on UA status after she failed to report to work as all Marines who fail to report to their appointed place of duty do. The press had nothing to do with it. Being listed as UA means that it is believed that it is believed that the UA person may have the intent to retun to the military. Once the UA person has been absent for more than 30 days, they are placed in a dessertion status as it is believed that the person there was no intent to return. If I remember correctly the Lejeune Marines asked to place Maria in an desserter status but was denied by HQMC.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 6:57 pm

  910. I UNDERSTAND THAT, however they could have accelerated it and SAID NOP! not doing it.
    So it was choice not to accelerate it ,there is a process when there is a sense of urgency . The Criteria is “Marine location unknown ” is enough to do that.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 6:50 pm

    All UA Marines are of “location unknown”. You don’t know it was by choice mastiffs. I don’t believe it was by choice.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 7:03 pm

  911. Nehi. The assited in changing\accelerating the UA status . And that is true read the Turner answer report,
    The Marines siad they would not accelertae the UA status to some sort of urgency until at least Jan 14th,,they accually told the family NO!

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 7:05 pm

  912. Nehi Read the report . It is the link posted yesterday . It show that Grafton accually lied to the press and the Military refused to accelerate the paper work to assist in the investigation

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 7:06 pm

  913. Nehi q23 thru 25 http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jzdo7l-20080409marinecorpsmarialauterbachletterresponse.pdf

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 7:09 pm

  914. Read the whole thing if you have time it is interesing . 26 also pretains to the above question. but it cleared things up fro me as my post above says
    Sorry when your responded to my post
    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 2:40 pm
    I thought you had read the document
    Sorry for any confussion

    Hope everyone has a great week end

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 7:20 pm

  915. You’ve really lost me mastiffs. The UA status was issued the same day her absence became know, before LE talked to the military/NCIS, before the media started their televising? How did that expedite an accelerated assignment of a UA status. It doesn’t. An yes I read your link as I’ve read many times. The Lejeune Marines attempted to list her as a deserter on the day it was known she was absent however they were denied that request. The USMC would not list her as a desserter until 14 Jan because on day 30 you become a deserter.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 7:21 pm

  916. Nehi Read the report . It is the link posted yesterday . It show that Grafton accually lied to the press and the Military refused to accelerate the paper work to assist in the investigation

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 7:06 pm

    Please point me to that report/link.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 7:23 pm

  917. A few up I must have posted as you were Nehi q23 thru 25 http://www.jdnews.com/attachments/jzdo7l-20080409marinecorpsmarialauterbachletterresponse.pdf

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 7:24 pm

  918. Oh, I understand what you’re saying now. BTW I have the Marines response on my hard drive along with many, many other references so I’m familiar with the Q & A. Regs, regs, regs, regs. They were following regs they were not refusing. Lejeune attempted but couldn’t. Don’t see where Grafton lied. They tried to update the status (accelerated action) but were denied, again, regs.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 7:41 pm

  919. Yes they tried but command said no That is my point, That is why Mary wants it change.
    Please understand I understand the process that is why I agree with Mary.

    Now go look at the OBGYN Q&A and listen to Grafton statement. Grafton is very clear when she blames the due date change on Maria misjudgment, Using it as an example of Maria’s creditability issue and the statement is simply not true. In Fact Maria was doing the right thing. Thats why I said Grafton owes an apology. After that Dateline report many pl thought Maria just arbitrally changed the date. and confirmed that everything Maria said them was a Lie when in fact Maria was doing the right thing at that point,
    I also think this is the woman Maria was supose to trust with her fears, Nope

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 8:00 pm

  920. Maybe Graftons remark was taken out of context by some. I didn’t interpet her interview to mean that Maria lied about everything. I took it that Maria was initially unsure of the due date and that Maria had accepted the medical due date when it was able to be determined. You need to make up your mind mastiffs. You were pushing the issue before that Grafton said that Maria was credible and now you’re saying that she lied about Maria accepting or whatnot the due date. Are only certain parts of her interview credible? I don’t think Grafton owes anyone an apology.

    So in as far as Mary wanting the UA/AWOL areas changed to prioritize victims, pregnant women etc. I could probably entertain that arena. However, that is not what she is saying in front of congress and in front of the public. She has tried an alleged rape and an actual murder publicly. She is placing the blame on the USMC when the blame should be place on Laurean. Now that I don’t and won’t support.

    Comment by Nehi — August 29, 2008 @ 8:28 pm

  921. mastiff, Mary is the one that painted Maria as a liar. Mary is all about national attention. The Marine Corps has written orders they go by and imo Maria’s case was handled as well as it could be considering Maria’s inconsistent stories. Get over it, she was involved with a married marine and cried rape to hope and save her ***. I read your battle every day and you have become sickening.It has been stated MANY times ML continued a friendly relationship with CL. Her last conversation with Mary was a lie…..stating the Marine Corps was making her go to a co party and sit in alphabetical order. LOL…..such stupidity and surely Mary and Unc Peter did not believe it. Please go away

    Comment by Anonymous — August 29, 2008 @ 8:36 pm

  922. Nehi actually I do not need to make up my mind,(although I am coming close) I came here defending the Marines, but in light of this conversation I now begin to understand. I actually felt the way some of you felt, however I was conflicted because it seemed so out of character of the people I know. I just do not see the Lauterbachs running half XXXX in an emotional tissy,, (however I chalked some things up to stress) It is funny some say I am just pushing a single agenda. When actually I was arguing a flaw in a theory because I was not sure about the situation. That is why I asked so many questions, there are so many conflicting reports. I actually want the truth. It was hard for me to believe that the Military would put out 2 different reports and conflicting information. I kept thinking these items have to connect logically…and the explanation here many times did not connect the dots.. so I argued, The Lauterbachs have claimed the Military would not support their efforts and many have argued it was because Maria Lied and Mary did not do things right,,, well,,,,,THE Q AND A confirms Mary’s complaints. So does the affidavit 2/7/08 . The Military put out reports stating that they were waiting on the DNA for the rape trial and that simply is not true, (why did they say that) Grafton states THAT MARIA MISSED JUDGE HER DATE, not that OBGYN changed the date. Her statement is misleading and untrue.
    When someone would say “ There is no evidence to support Maria’s claim” I said Grafton believed her” to me that was some evidence . but You will see that when the due date now is confirmed and Grafton knew that OBGYN had changed not Maria miss calculating, and the fact they said “NO” to accelerating the process and cooperating with the LE .. My mind has been changed. The Military has not been straight in their dealings with this case and IMO it is an effort to sway public opinion.
    If you go to the top when 1st comment I argued No More rules and Laws, Now in light of what I have learned here I have changed my mind. But isn’t that what good dialogue is about

    I agree on congress not making a ruling on Cesar etc. but I am not convinced that is what and who this case is about. Again I am sure there will be a rebut, and this issue will come up and be dealt with

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 9:09 pm

  923. Anonymous Okay It will be far more interesting to only have 1 opinion hear Bye Now

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 29, 2008 @ 9:10 pm

  924. Nehi, I am very interested in your comment about Maria’s going to Cesar’s house. Could you share with me your thoughts on what could have occurred to get her to Cesar’s house?

    Thanks.

    Comment by justice4all — August 29, 2008 @ 10:49 pm

  925. Mastiffs, I don’t know if you are still reading, but I am going to answer your post.

    Q 17A Says that it had been reported in Oct 2007 that Laurean had told SA Grafton that he would give a DNA sample when the baby was born,. Under the circumstances, why wasn’t a DNA sample taken from Laurean in October?
    A17A NCIS had no contact with Laurean in October and no such assurance was ever articulated by him

    Q17A Merely states that the report that Turner is inquiring about is not factual. Please explain how you arrived at the conclusion that “The DNA was NOT going to be tested”? The DOC was 5-14-07, but that is the date of conception only. If they planned to compare Laurean’s DNA with the baby’s DNA AFTER it was born, why take a sample months before it could even be used? Think about the recent statement by authorities who want to get a fresh DNA sample from Laurean.

    Q14 Asks the question why after the confirmation of pregnancy on June 27 was no DNA sample taken from Laurean from that date forward to Nov. 5.

    Q17A The question was about a specific period of time, the time BEFORE Lauterbach changed her statement . At that time BEFORE Nov 5 NCIS investigators had every intention of making a comparison between the baby and it’s probable father. And it was answered…there was no physical evidence with which to compare Laurean’s DNA until the birth of the baby at term. THEN on November 5 Lauterbach changed her statement, she said that Laurean was NOT the father of the baby. AFTER Lauterbach takes Laurean out of the equation by saying that he could not be the father BASED on the OBGYN exam and the recalculated conception date. Or to put it another way the size of the baby and a recalculated conception date, put the conception outside the range of the alleged sexual assault. Therefore there was no reason to collect a DNA sample from Laurean.

    If you go back to the Camp Lejeune Press Conference on Jan. 15th they said that Lauterbach still considered those encounters to be rape. All the Nov 5 change of statement to JAG did was eliminate the baby’s DNA as physical evidence in the alleged sexual assault investigation. It DID NOT eliminate Laurean as a suspect nor did it preclude Laurean’s DNA for being collected and compared to any physical evidence found in the future. That would include the baby’s DNA if the investigators found evidence that Lauterbach had changed her statement under duress or because of a continuing relationship between Laurean.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 30, 2008 @ 2:20 pm

  926. Q23-23 About a method used to accelerate her status to place Lauterbach on the feceral database.

    Her command wanted to place her in the federal database that is used for deserters as well as dangerous criminals.. It would have required that a federal warrant be issue in her name and then federal agencies and funds would be used to arrest her. When Laurean went UA his status was changed to that of deserter because he had a federal warrant for flight to avoid prosecution, he was considered a dangerous criminal.

    Maria was not a deserter or dangerous criminal, she did not have a federal warrant out on her. Another criteria was that her whereabouts had to be known. She did not meet the criteria. I am not sure about setting the precedent that a pregnant woman should be placed in a database and listed with wanted dangerous criminals. Think of the element of risk that might entail and the potential dangers for the mother and baby during apprehension. The database is for potentially dangerous criminals, not for expectant mothers. I can understand the reticence of HGMC to grant permission.

    Her command was in contact with Mary Lauterbach on Dec 18 when she frst went missing. When asked what her command would do to look for her, Mary was told that they did not have the resources to search for UA Marines. As far as her command knew she was voluntarily UA. Mary was told that she would have to initiate a MPR, which she did on Dec 18 and the OCSO contacted ehr that same day. Their inquiry generated the three page email that Mary sent to the ONSO. According to both the OCSO Incident/Investigation Report the OCSO contacted NCIS Dec. 19 and exchanged information. NCIS is the law enforcement agency for the USMC. A due date of February 14 2008 was verified by NCIS as well as the fact that Lauterbach had accused a fellow Marine of sexual assault.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 30, 2008 @ 2:28 pm

  927. Your points are well taken, What I am reading (and I have no military experience)
    Is there is no provision in place for the Military to open their records and assist the LE investigation in the event a Marine disappears with unusual circumstances?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 30, 2008 @ 3:37 pm

  928. Your points are well taken, What I am reading (and I have no military experience)
    Is there is no provision in place for the Military to open their records and assist the LE investigation in the event a Marine disappears with unusual circumstances?

    Comment by Anonymous — August 30, 2008 @ 3:37 pm

    Anon, I for one can’t help you here. There are so many written orders (books and books of them) that for me to say one way or the other may be incorrect. I don’t know what the MCO’s, JAG, DOD, Naval Orders etc. say pertaining to opening records to assist the LE but I’m sure in one if not more of these books/orders your answer can be found so as to what the procedures etc. are.

    Comment by Nehi — August 30, 2008 @ 5:21 pm

  929. If you look closely at the OCSO incident report you will read where JD Moore states that the command confirmed Sgt Durham’s statement but also stated that little was done on the military side and no official missing report was filed.

    So in this case her MC Command was contacted and assited the OCSO.

    The OCSO had been made aware of the ongoing investigation into Maria’s alleged sexual assault, so the OCSO would contact the one doing the investigation, because they would have the information they wanted. Also NCIS had agreed to assist them and also to interview military personnel on the base.back on Dec 19th.

    Local law Enforcement have long standing agreements to work together with NCIS and vice versa. Since she disappeared in onslow County off base, Onslow would have jurisdiction over the Missing Person Investigation. NCIS confirmed both the SA investigation and her UA status.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 30, 2008 @ 7:13 pm

  930. I appreciate your efforts and I am sure your feelings are strong towards the Military’s process and you are informed.
    At this time (and I know there are things that I experienced and know for a fact that are not in the press and yes I know that does sway my judgment and it should because my experience is fact)
    Anyways , there is an assumption of me that I perceive .
    1) I am defending mary and or maria blindly
    2) I want the rape to be true
    3) I want the Military to be wrong

    Well as I have stated before, I am not pro tons of regulations , I felt that regulations (to many) actually cause these types of problems however I thought there was some bad judgments made and my aggressive experience with the military had more to do with Human Beings in a panic than poor regulations.

    When you tell me the militaries hand were tied and you tell me they are playing word games (they did not ask the right specific question ) I will then content Something needs to change,, That simple.
    This will not save Maria or bring her back, but maybe it could save someone else.
    Concerning the DNA, sounds like legal word games. But we have heard that before “lets figure out what the definition of IS is” I understand what you are saying about paternity. However They clearly state that they had not spoken to Cesar at anytime concerning this matter is Q16.

    I am certain at this time the Military was making legal jumps in this case therefore I agree with the lauterbachs demand for answers. I am sure If it was your daughter you would say , well it’s the rules so let it go. Funny Mary Told Maria to follow the Regulations and all will come out at the end.
    By the way I probably will be reading from time to time , however will not respond as often because my questions have been answered if you ask me something I will respond . I am not here to prove to anyone anything. What I know to be true and how I see things is out of an eye that understands the character of the Humans behind the camera. What you have shared has filled the holes Thank You

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 30, 2008 @ 7:42 pm

  931. Since you’re family, shouldn’t the “holes” have been filled? Why did you have to come to a blog to find answers? You say Mary knows more than us posters here, so why didn’t you just go straight to her for the answers you’re looking for?

    Comment by AnnDaniel — August 30, 2008 @ 7:58 pm

  932. Q16 Did the Marines at any time request Cpl Laurean to submit a DNa sample?

    A16 No.

    When a rape is committed the rapist leaves behind his DNA semen, hair, sweat, saliva, blood, skin cells etc on the victim, the victims clothing, the contents of the crime scene etc. Theyleave something behind to be used to compare to a fresh, clean DNA sample. If investigators do NOT have anything with DNA from the rapist, thent hey do NOT need a DNA sample BECAUSE they DO NOT have anything to compare it to. For instance there was no semen, hair, sweat, saliva on Maria or her clothing and No crime scene to process. That is why Mary told Maria on May 10th when she called to say she was “attacked on April 10″ that she had lost all of her evidence. It was too late to collect any physical evidence from Maria’s person or the crime scene. Therefore there was no reason to ask Laurean to submit a DNA sample.

    Even if they had asked Laurean to submit a DNA sample, there was nothing with DNA from the alleged crime to compare it to. All they would have had was Laurean’s DNA sample and that can not be collected without probable cause. In other words they had to have a piece of evidence from the alleged crime victim or crime scene with DNA on it, in order to collect a DNA sample from Laurean.

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 30, 2008 @ 7:59 pm

  933. mastiffs is that really you “K” or is someone else in your family using your name. Your writing tonight is different.

    Comment by Nehi — August 30, 2008 @ 8:11 pm

  934. I do not understand about the Marine’s hands being tied. Are we talking about the sexual assault investigation or the UA?

    The Marines are not a law enforcement agency. they do not have the resources or the authority to investigates crimes, especially crimes outside their base. The alleged sexual assault was a crime that happened on base. NCIS investigated that crime. Yes, NCIS and JAG kept the CO updated on the latest findings, but the ones with all of the information was NCIS.

    Although Maria was UA from her command, she disappeared off base. And from Sgt Durham the evidence pointed to Maria just packing to go away for awhile. Even if she did not take everything, it would look like she wanted to get away from all of the stress. The USMC did check on her by phone, but got no answer,,,then they sent some Marines to check out her residence to make sure that she was not there and possibly injured. They called her mother to find out if she had arrived home, or where she might be staying. Did Mary have additional information. The USMC told her that they did not have the authority to file an missing person report., but that Mary could.

    From the OCSO Incident Report (MPR) it is obvious that the USMC was communicating with the OCSO. And it is just as obvious that NCIS was communicating with the OCSO and yet people want to believe the Marine’s hands were tied. What more could they have done in light of what we know today?

    Comment by Me to Iguana — August 30, 2008 @ 8:53 pm

  935. Nehi, thanks, it is an interesting question, I have never looked to see if someone was using my name. I will look. Sometimes I would wonder why certain things were being said , and I will have to admit, If I saw insults I didn’t tend to not read the post completely.
    “Tonight I am not trying to accomplish 1000 things at once plus I am not trying to figure anything out , that could account for the change in my writing..
    I do not think a family member would use my name, it would be a stranger.
    The person who posted my “supposed kids name ” is not family, there are fundamental mistakes. Ann Lauterbach (married now) was on this blog and the Steve Steiner comment could have been her, I called the person I thought it was and she said NO . I can’t imagine the scotch joke being found for public view on the web (FYI Steve is not a drunk, the Scotch he likes is the joke), So, I am assuming it was made by a family member
    Again the info here as been settling for me Thanks

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 30, 2008 @ 9:54 pm

  936. AnnDaniel —. On this page we have talked about the questions the Laughterbachs worked with Turner to compose. I had an experience that caused me to have a particular thought process (panicked Military response) and it did not make snse to me. now it does. If my question was why did Mary do somthing then I would ask her. Family is not privlaged to all the evidence because they are family. However they do have more info than what is in the press it is not everything.

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 30, 2008 @ 10:01 pm

  937. Me to Iguana Both issues where important to me and you have been very informative Thank You.
    Just because we both come to different conclusion doesn’t mean I do not understand. As I have stated before I have no influence in the case , it just is personally settling Thanks

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 30, 2008 @ 10:17 pm

  938. Nehi,Concerning someone else using my name. After a brief look I didn’t see anything. But if you are talking about mistakes like “I didn’t tend to not read the post completely” the double negative etc…. I do have horrible eyes and I tend to type , say things that maybe are more revealing than what I should say on line, back space and post. Example , in between the double negative I had put more information about the family than I felt was appropriate. Nothing all that important however you would have know my birth last name.
    Sorry about any confussion however I will take resposablity for all above under I Ihv2mastiffs (who knows now that it has been said what will happen) There was a post on another page here that said they were hurt the Laughterbach Family any chance they had

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — August 30, 2008 @ 10:53 pm

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  940. Geez, I’ve gone through the latest comments here having stumbled upon this blog and this must be a completely partial because not one entry has mentioned that a woman and her baby were killed here. That alone should require a review of procedures and some soul searching on the part of the military. Deceit? Incompentency? Relationships? Military reputation? Survival? A young woman died here and was buried beneath someone’s barbeque. Any implication that anyone deserves it or brought it on themselves is prejudice of the most slippery order.

    Comment by /dar — September 16, 2008 @ 4:31 am

  941. /dar Thanks and I agree, however what do you think about the case in congress? I think we can maybe use this case to help woman in the future.
    Whats your opinion

    Comment by ihv2mastiffs — September 16, 2008 @ 8:41 am

  942. Oh please….there are so many entries about Maria and her unborn baby being killed. Look in the archives. This particular entry was about Mary going before Congress.

    Comment by AnnDaniel — September 16, 2008 @ 9:16 am

  943. and some soul searching on the part of the military. Deceit? Incompentency? Relationships? Military reputation? Survival?

    Comment by /dar — September 16, 2008 @ 4:31 am

    WTH are you talking about /dar? Sounds like a good start for a crime mystery. Soul searching? That belongs in the the hands of the killer.

    Comment by Nehi — September 16, 2008 @ 10:38 am

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