Father?
A reliable source inside the federal investigation has told me there is a very strong possibility that Cesar Laurean is not the father of Maria Lauterbach’s unborn child. In fact, officials are pretty sure he is not.
The signposts to this have already been laid out by officials:
-District Attorney Dewey Hudson told me he knew the military was holding off testing other possible fathers before they tested Laurean.
-The original incident report - written by a Navy veteran with information relayed to him by a military wife and mother - mentions a “superior officer.” They could have mixed up ranks, calling a corporal an officer, but I doubt it.
-In the e-mail reportedly sent by Laurean to Brown, he asked for immunity from military prosecution. Laurean had told co-workers he would flee to
-In custody in
-“On November 5, 2007, Lance Cpl. Lauterbach informed the military prosecutor she was certain the child was not Cpl. Laurean’s based upon a recent Obstetrics Gynecological examination and recalculation of the conception date,” Lt. Gen. Richard S. Kramlich, director of Marine Corps Staff, wrote recently in his answers to Rep. Mike Turner’s questions about the rape investigation.
Posted in Cesar Laurean, HOME PAGE |
Lindell, I honestly think the baby is Sgt. Durham’s.
Comment by VeryCurious — April 17, 2008 @ 11:44 am
If Cesar Laurean isn’t the father of Maria Lauterbach’s baby, this does indeed yet another twist and turn in this bizarre case.
Did she go there with intentions of telling him that he wasn’t the baby’s father (perhaps after leading him on that he was the baby’s father) and this started the argument which led to her death?
Was Maria trying to run to El Paso to avoid having the DNA tested?
Comment by LittleBit — April 17, 2008 @ 11:52 am
How would the military know what other men to test? Are they going to test every male in Jacksonville both military and civilian?
Comment by me — April 17, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
Who is the “military wife and mother” who relayed the information regarding “superior officer”?
Comment by Bee Taylor — April 17, 2008 @ 12:06 pm
The military mother relaying the information would be Mary Lauterbach. If Cesar’s DNA is not a match, maybe test Sgt. Durham?
Comment by Sandra — April 17, 2008 @ 12:10 pm
But the original incident report–is that the missing person’s or the alleged rape? If it’s the rape report, that was coming from Maria.
Comment by me — April 17, 2008 @ 12:11 pm
I think the original incident report is the missing persons report. If that’s the case, then yes it came from Mary Lauterbach.
I don’t believe there is a copy of the original rape report floating around, is there?
Comment by Bee Taylor — April 17, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
me, I have a great suspicion that the MC may have suspected this all along and know who the other person already is. Wouldn’t surprise me if it belongs to Durham and that would explain why he came to the funeral and sat by Mary. Maria knew they were going to find out when they did the DNA on Gabriel and I think she went UA because that time was getting closer and closer. All of this was going to blow up in Maria’s face and imo she knew it.
Comment by Drake Garrett — April 17, 2008 @ 12:15 pm
We see the “superior officer” mistake all the time. The info on that report came from Mary. Her info came from Maria. It’s just as possible that the story was “stretched” a little and hence Superior Officer made it in the report. There were several items in that incident report that have now been found to be false or errors. And I agree with Me. If they are certain that Cesar wasn’t the father, that would be the end of it. They have no reason to continue testing men for the paternity, as only one man was accused of the rape.
Comment by citizen j — April 17, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
Wouldn’t Durham know if he was the father? And why run from him?
Comment by Bee Taylor — April 17, 2008 @ 12:17 pm
Never mind, I think I just thought of the answer to that question.
Comment by Bee Taylor — April 17, 2008 @ 12:18 pm
She informs the military on Nov 5, that the baby is not Laurean’s and on the SAME day she moves in with Durham. I always thought Laurean’s motive for death and burning was to destroy evidence that he would be convicted of rape since he was so afraid of the military.
I do not believe Laurean raped her if the child is not his. What woman suffers the trauma of rape and then within a matter of weeks, begins having relations with someone else. Is Laurean covering for someone else high up in the military?
Comment by JB — April 17, 2008 @ 12:35 pm
To the ones who thought that Maria would run to keep the DNA testing from happening; they were only going to do testing to see if Cesar was the baby’s father not no one else and the MC has already said that Maira told them on NOV. 5, 2007 that she knew for certain that Cesar was not the father. So what is it that would blow up in her face? As long as Sgt.Durham and Maria was not in the same company then there was nothing wrong with them having a relationship; that is if they were having one. Officers can not have a relationship with enlisted and enlisted consists of PFC, LCPL,CPL, SGT, etc….. Everyone has thought that the rape allegation was the reason that Cesar would kill Maria, so now this does put a new spin on things, but could it have been that Cesar loved Maria and wanted to be with her no matter who the father was, but that she refused because she did not love him and wanted to be with the baby’s father and Cesar was so mad because he had cheated on his wife and lost his family and Maria and that before he would see Maria with someone else he would kill her. There has been people in this world that said that if they couldn’t have the person that they loved then they would kill them so no one else could have them and they done exactly that. Just my thoughts
Comment by LTH — April 17, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
I agree with me, the possibilities are endless as to who really is the father of her child.
Is there a list somewhere of every person Maria had sex with? I mean you just can’t pull a name out of a hat and go test that person’s DNA.
Yet another puzzle piece with information we aren’t privy to.
Comment by LittleBit — April 17, 2008 @ 12:51 pm
maybe she had an affair with a superior officer and Laurean, when she found out she was pregnant she said cesar raped her to save the officers butt. there is a comment about an officer that had feelings for maria on the comment page of the daily news.
Comment by de — April 17, 2008 @ 1:15 pm
de, what article is that comment under?
Comment by LTH — April 17, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
Didn’t the MC say they were going to be doing DNA testing on the baby once he was born? I think Maria was very afraid that they were going to find out that Laurean was not the father.
Hudson gave the impression that if he is not the father they will be doing further testing on possible other fathers. So how would Maria know they wouldn’t do testing when she had Gabriel proving who the real father was especially if NCIS full has felt or had information all along she was covering for another man she knew to be the father all along.
Comment by Drake Garrett — April 17, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
The MC is the one who said that Maria told them on Nov, 5. 2007, that she knew for certain that Cesar was not the father so why would she would afraid of them finding out something that she had already told them? You can not just go around making people take a DNA test; since no one else was accused of raping her then you would have to have good enough evidence to get a court order to make the person go for the DNA test if they are not willing to go on their own. Maria had no reason to be afraid of the DNA test unless Cesar was the father.
Comment by LTH — April 17, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
lts it is under laurean web use tracked under most commented
Comment by Anastasia Beaverhousin — April 17, 2008 @ 1:40 pm
Just when I thought this case could not get any crazier, it does.
Comment by Rhonda — April 17, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
Everyone is jumping to conclusions here and we don’t know the truth.
Comment by Delaine — April 17, 2008 @ 2:15 pm
Your inside source may be correct, but i am not sure the rest of the “signposts” indicate the same. DA Hudson doesn’t speak for NCIS, so I’m not so sure how much water that holds for me. He’s had several months to run due to the rape allegation, yet did not until after Maria went missing. “proof” could mean anything at this point. And Maria stating she was sure he wasn’t the father I still believe could have been to prevent NCIS from finding out they had contact after the allegation was made.
Would your contact know where they got their sample from? And why they want to run the test again, assuming they’ve already run it once with unexpected results?
Comment by citizen j — April 17, 2008 @ 2:45 pm
Lindell, you have opened a gigantic can of worms here!
Comment by Sasha — April 17, 2008 @ 3:17 pm
Don’t you think if Maria was that close to Durham she would have left a note that refected that?
“I cant take this Marine life any longer so I am going away.Sorry for the inconvienience”
Maria
this just doesnt cut it if he is the baby’s father unless he didnt know he was the father.
I just dont think Durham is the dad.
I think Maria was running because she couldnt back out of the rape charges and she knew Cesar was going to fry. Maybe she was pissed at him for lying to her about being married and things went too far.
Why did he kill her? Maybe she and Cesar agreed she would leave town sand disapear so the rape charges would go away and then the bus was full and she decided maybe to stay and cesar blew up on her.they fought and he hit her on the head in anger.
Comment by befuddled — April 17, 2008 @ 3:28 pm
Whoa. Citizen J, I never said anyone had run a DNA test, just what officials beleive they will find out when they do.
The FBI affidavit says that Laurean told members of his unit “he would go to Mexico if the rape investigation appeared that he would be found guilty.” The e-mail to Brown reportedly from Laurean said he knew the military would “convict me with no evidence.”
Comment by Lindell Kay — April 17, 2008 @ 3:34 pm
But how did Maria get to the Laurean home? I say she went there to get money from Cesar for the bus ticket etc. Why wouldnt he help her leave town? No Maria no more rape charges. Cesar was facing Leavensworth so he must have been very very angry at her. The MC was moving towards a courts martial.I just wonder if she was headed to stay with any of his family in Mexico via El Paso. I dont think he intended to kill her just get her out of town. I think he originally dumped her in the woods but the buzzards were circling and drawing attention so he moved her to the pit and covered her up.
The only think I can think of as to why she had no pants on is that Cesar may have thought the baby was coming becuaase it was thrashing around in her stomach after she was out ,and he was going to deliver it not realising that the baby will live 10-20 minutes after it’s mother has died.
Comment by befuddled — April 17, 2008 @ 3:42 pm
Maybe in the end we’ll get to know the truth about who lied to who about what if anyone did. Was this recalculated date a fact from the medical personnel, something NCIS cooked up to tell Maria or something Maria cooked up to tell NCIS? Did she sleep with someone else or did she have sex with Cesar again after reported the alleged rape just to have “proof” for her mom or the MC? I’m sure she didn’t anticipate NCIS to drop the DNA bomb.
Comment by Lefty — April 17, 2008 @ 3:45 pm
Mr. Lindell, could it have been he was talking about the murder and not the rape in the email to Sheriff Brown? Cesar might think that because he is a marine that he will be tried by the Marine corp instead of the civilian court system and that he is actually not guilty of the murder; just the cover up of it, but he feels that the marine corp will convict him of the actual murder. You know if someone else done the actual killing, but Cesar helped in covering up and was going to take the rap for it to keep that person out of trouble, then the ones involved would do everything possible to prove it was him like; making sure that his fingerprints are on the murder weapon and anything else that was involved. Mr. Lindell, can you find out about the kitchen table that the Laurean’s sold, why the LE doesn’t think that they need to test this table? I think it was in a interview with Sheriff Brown; that the statement was made that the fetus hand looked more like it had been cut off instead of charred off and now we here that they sold a kitchen table and would not let the buyer go to the house to get it. Why would the fetus hand appear more like it had been cut off?
Comment by LTH — April 17, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
My appologies, Lindell. I was in error and read into things too much.
Comment by citizen j — April 17, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
Rick Sutherland PLEASE jump in here!
Comment by KDB — April 17, 2008 @ 3:48 pm
Is it possible she did cut herself and passed out and cesar thought she was dead and he took his rage out on what he thought was a dead body?
Is it possible that the ’superior officer’ was on the ncis team ,or a friend of someone on the team and was railroading cesar to cover his own ass or out of jealousy
I really beive if he meant to kill her he would have done so the first time she went to his house.he said she came back from the bus station acting errational and different. labor?
Comment by strick10 — April 17, 2008 @ 3:59 pm
I wish Captain Rick would too, KDB.
Comment by LittleBit — April 17, 2008 @ 4:01 pm
good question for captain rick sutherland> Do you believe there are more people involved in the rape and or murder of Maria Lauterbach?
Comment by KDB — April 17, 2008 @ 4:15 pm
I dont think Maria was raped in a conventional sense.She may have felt violated AFTER she found out Cesar forgot to tell her he was married with a child. She may have felt he had sex with her under false pretenses. She may have thought that she would NEVER have had consensual sex with him if she knew he was married.She may have been angry that he made her commit a sin against her catholic religion.
Comment by SavannahStar — April 17, 2008 @ 4:30 pm
There is an entry today at 3:59 pm that was brought to my attention. Either there is another person that uses the same name, unlikely, or someone is posting comments that are not coming from me. I do not concur w/ what the other strick10 posted above. I post on another board that discusses this case under this name and have never posted a comment on this site until now. I do read comments on here frequently as some comments bring some good insight but have not offered my opinion. If someone is playing games it’s a shame as it takes away from those persons here that are trying to accomplish something.
Comment by strick10 — April 17, 2008 @ 4:31 pm
I think we all know exactly who is playing these games and she/they have been banned many times over at the board you post on, Strick10.
Comment by Sasha — April 17, 2008 @ 4:37 pm
I think we know who is playing games on here and she/they have been banned over on the board you post on, Strick10.
Comment by Sasha — April 17, 2008 @ 4:38 pm
Could there have been 2 guys at Cesars house when Maria went back the second time? It makes sense that there could have been such a struggle with 2. Cesar is a small guy 5′8 and Maria 5′4 and an athlete.I think she could have kicked his ass pregant or not if her life was on the line.I think there was a second guy that grabbed her beat her and tried to slash her throat and she got away and they chased her into the garage and Cesar picked up the crowbar and wacked her.
IF so, the second guy could be Ambers husband, Christina’s brother in law or the dude they saw on the home depot tape.
It would take 2 guys to mover her car and cleanup and drag her 140 lb body to the backyard, 2 guys to dig a hole right quick and clean up the house.I do not believe Cesar had the time to do it alone before his wife returned 6:30 or 7pm….no way no how.
Comment by Sasha — April 17, 2008 @ 5:08 pm
I would just like to state that I DID NOT WRITE THE ABOVE POST!!! I do not know why someone else would use my name, but it is NOT funny.
Comment by Sasha — April 17, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
get a life sasha.there is more than 1 person with that name.nothing bad was said so go cry somewhere else.
Comment by Sasha — April 17, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
Lindell, please do me a favor and check the IP address of the person using my name in the long post above mine - the one beginning with 2 guys…………..
I did not write that post and whomever is playing these games should not be allowed to do so.
I will change my name on here, but please still check that IP.
Comment by Sasha — April 17, 2008 @ 5:23 pm
When are you going to figure out there will never be a rape charge? Even of he comes back as the father of that child there is no way any court could indict and prosecute him. It is not a winable case and no DA or military court would touch it.
Comment by Anon — April 17, 2008 @ 5:24 pm
Mr. Kay, there is a text in Adam Housley (fox news.com) where a former military prosecutor speaks. It is very interesting and quite long. It goes into the extradition “decision” and is well worth reading. This former prosecutor feels that the first step may have been taken with the email (purported) to Sheriff Brown. I went to Fox news.com and then put in “Adam Housley.”
Comment by doublt anon. — April 17, 2008 @ 5:34 pm
[…] I’m posting this in here because Lindell’s got an intriguing post up today about the father of Maria’s baby. I want to comment on it in his blog, but I can’t link in the comment box like I want too, so […]
Pingback by It’s a Toler thing … bloggy Timmi » Blog Archive » Lauterbach: Questions still linger — April 17, 2008 @ 5:40 pm
Messed up my other comment, sorry big guy. Here’s the post, it was too big for the comment box. Holler back:
http://ttoler.encblogs.com/?p=288
Comment by timmi — April 17, 2008 @ 5:46 pm
Toler
So you think the OFFICER in Charge that Maria confided in about having sex with Cesar made her file a rape charge,or filed it themselves and she never said it was rape? I wonder if the OFFICER in Charge was hot for Maria ?
Comment by Ella Belle — April 17, 2008 @ 5:47 pm
Check out Timmi’s deal. She studied the Marine Corps portion of this story in depth while I was working on the civilian authorites. And she has talked to Maria’s family more than me. So she would have a better feel for what they think. http://ttoler.encblogs.com/?p=288#comment-742
Comment by Lindell Kay — April 17, 2008 @ 7:08 pm
If I’m not mistaken, the OIC she reported the rape to was a female officer…as was her UVA. This is just what I have been told by a friend.
Comment by me — April 17, 2008 @ 7:51 pm
I stand corrected on my previous post…the OIC was not female. My apologies.
Comment by me — April 17, 2008 @ 8:02 pm
carried through the current
And being swept away
the king is in the closet
he’s hiding from today
and though he owns all fortunes
this room is where he’ll stay
And his world is filled with darkness, turning grey
Gazing out the window
He is separate from all others
No one knocks upon his door
And it might as well be raining ’cause the sunlight hurts his eyes
And his ears will never hear his child’s cries
Once proud and full of passion
He fought the cause of man
Many people loved his courage
Many followed his command
He changed the old into the new
And the course of things to come
And then one day they noticed he was gone
At first it didn’t matter
Nobody seemed to care
They all became too busy
To find him anywhere do no one knew hot even him
The problems he would find
On the day he journeyed deep into his mind
she closed her eyes and went far away
Away from this battlefield
In her dreams well here she will enjoy it
Where innocence plays with all the laughing children
The kind who are crying right now
A taste of freedom from the pain
Of everything she sees
Life is sweet but they took it all for granted
And now they don’t know if they could even tell you
Just what they permit or allow
Allow them to forget the life they’ve made
they’ve held this nation in hand
And yet it’s not their home
Allow them just one answer just one reason why
Why this refugee of the family of man must die
Tell them why
Daydreams filled his nighttimes
And night dreams filled his days
Confusion and uncertainty
A puzzled mind of haze
You thought he was so powerful
And set upon his ways
Well he left us all to travel through this maze
I heard the king was dying
I heard the king was dead
And with him died the chronicles
That no one ever read
The closet’s fully empty now
It’s occupied by none
he’ll draw the drapes now destiny is done
Comment by Sirica — April 19, 2008 @ 11:56 pm
Funny thing, Sirica, I was just thinking of you and trying to find your previous post about the first 24 of the next 96. I am tremendously impressed with your writings. What do you think might happen next? There is nowhere for marauding moles to hide now.
Comment by justice4all — April 20, 2008 @ 12:51 am
My only guess on the first 24 of the next 96 was the long weekend coming up for Memorial Day….but I don’t know if I was right.
Comment by me — April 20, 2008 @ 10:18 am
me, I think you are right, that’s about all it could be. Wish Sirica would be a little plainer for people like me!!
Comment by justice4all — April 21, 2008 @ 11:54 am
Why so cryptic, Sirica? I am not as sophisticated as you seem to be, and would like to know what your point is.
Comment by Carolyn — April 21, 2008 @ 12:03 pm
I know Carolyn!
But you have to admit it is fun trying to decipher what “John” is saying.
Comment by Sandy — April 21, 2008 @ 12:10 pm
I think Sirica likes old bands and felt like singing a little tune for the accused.
Comment by sha — April 21, 2008 @ 12:18 pm
Well, Sirica must be writing this for someone that can magically crawl inside his muddled mind and know what he means. It makes no sense to me.
I think I would be a little afraid of this Sirica if I knew him.
Comment by Carolyn — April 21, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
You’re not dissing my dime store analysis are you, Carolyn?
Comment by sha — April 21, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
Sounds to me that Sirica is close to this case. This writing is telling a story of what has happened in Cesar’s life since he met Maria or at least in someone’s life since they and Cesar have met Maria. There is a story there if you will just take the time to decifer it. I believe there was more than just a love affair involved and possibly more than a love triangle. Someone out there knows more than what they have been willing to tell LE. These writings should be looked at very carefully and by an expert on writings. It would be good to know who this Sirica is. Most likely someone very close to this situation.
Comment by not me — April 21, 2008 @ 1:26 pm
Hi, sha! No, not dismissing your analysis at all! In fact, yours is a Sak’s Fifth Avenue one!
And thanks, not me! I have never liked riddles or veiled comments, etc. I like information given in a straight up manner. Thanks for decifering some of it for me.
Comment by Carolyn — April 21, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
Those are song lyrics written decades ago by Walsh and Livgren for their band, Kansas.
Comment by sha — April 21, 2008 @ 1:36 pm
Now see? I had no idea! Still makes no sense to me.
I have never heard of the band Kansas. What hits did they record?
Comment by Carolyn — April 21, 2008 @ 1:38 pm
LOL, song lyrics! I think Sirca is a little thief stealing copyrighted material and posting as if it was his own.
Comment by Lily — April 21, 2008 @ 1:42 pm
ok! haha SFA it is.
Carolyn, I do wonder if Sirica will mail these odd messages using cut out letters from magazines to Laurean at the county jail.
Comment by sha — April 21, 2008 @ 1:45 pm
Great catch Sha! Now when he posts all we have to do is guess who he is plagiarizing from now on. ROTFLMAO
Comment by Lily — April 21, 2008 @ 1:46 pm
LOL, sha! It would not surprise me if he did, although it would probably be stopped in the mail room before reaching Cesar! Anything suspicious coming to an inmate in the mail would be looked at! You are really not supposed to read the mail as much as search it for contraband, but the pasted letters out of a magazine would not reach him in my opinion!
Comment by Carolyn — April 21, 2008 @ 1:49 pm
Dust In The Wind and Carry On Wayward Son are the only ones I’ve heard. I took a few lines of his comment and plugged them into Google and it came up with Closet Chronicles by Kansas, but I’ve never heard that one.
Lily, he wouldn’t be the first.
Comment by sha — April 21, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
sha, do you think Cesar will be getting all sorts of loveletters from girls/women written to him in the pokey? This has been the case with all high profile murder cases. UGH! Some sick puppies out there!
Comment by Carolyn — April 21, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
Not me, still think these song lyrics should be analyzed. LMAO Sorry I couldn’t resist.
Comment by Lily — April 21, 2008 @ 1:52 pm
Carolyn, you’re right, some people do that kind of thing! I won’t be one of them lol
Lily, they may have skills like Nostradamus with those lyrics. haha
Comment by sha — April 21, 2008 @ 2:04 pm
Bob Dylan: Blowin’ in the Wind (partial lyrics)
How many times must a man look up
Before he can see the sky?
Yes, ‘n’ how many ears must one man have
Before he can hear people cry?
Yes, ‘n’ how many deaths will it take till he knows
That too many people have died?
The answer, my friend, is blowin’ in the wind,
The answer is blowin’ in the wind.
Comment by Lily — April 21, 2008 @ 2:21 pm
Oppsie, I just noticed I wandered off topic.
I still believe 100% Cesar is the father.
Comment by Lily — April 21, 2008 @ 2:35 pm
Oopsie, maybe you shouldn’t chastise others about something you are guilty of too Lily. Just a friendly suggestion. I don’t think anyone knows the DNA of that baby at this time.
Comment by Anon — April 21, 2008 @ 2:42 pm
I don’t know a great deal about Courts Martial, but as far as the rape allegation goes, WOULD they be able to proceed and try Cesar if there was no witness against him? I am a bit of a history person and I have always been interested in the conspirators to the death of President Lincoln. At the time of the assassination, it was just a few days after the end of the war between the states and although the civil courts were functioning the conspirators were tried by a Court Martial. Well, Mary Surratt, a respected widow and propertyowner was tried, convicted, and hanged by the court. To this very day her family is seeking exoneration. The same Court also sentenced to imprisonment on Dry Tortugas Island (Florida) Dr. Samueal Mudd, the doctor who set John Wilkes Booth’s leg. Dr. Mudd was pardoned after his heroic efforts to save all prison personnel, prisoners, staff, guards, etc. BUT, to this day his family is still seeking relief for him. The argument they have is that if a civil court had heard the case there just was not enough evidence to convict Dr. Mudd and Mary Surratt. From this I take it that Courts Martial seem to have a lot more leeway than a civil court, and although the accused may have a counsel or lawyer or someone to represent him/her, it would be nothing like what would be available in a civil court. Does anyone know anything about the military courts?
Comment by justice4all — April 21, 2008 @ 9:22 pm
The Explorer alits for a rendezvous with the Emperor
as the bittersweet droplets of the mourning dew rest on
the delicate petals of a freshly clipped Rose while tears no longer
flow in the Sagev where sand and time erode the ivy’s veil.
Comment by Sirica — April 21, 2008 @ 11:09 pm
Sirica, now stay on and explain a bit about all this. What is the significance of the ivy? Were the three bugs, LE? When you mentioned the sand and dust were the key, and was the reference to shining a half moon etc., a hint about the community the Laureans lived in? Please tell. Thank you.
Comment by justice4all — April 21, 2008 @ 11:20 pm
Cesar will be returning here, but do you think it will be very soon?
Comment by justice4all — April 21, 2008 @ 11:23 pm
The significance cannot be explained any better than
you just chronicled, justice4all. To remove
your points from their linear meaning and move them into
some tangential direction would blur the obvious and
make something that is fairly simple, extremely
complex to point of it being over analyzed thus rendering it
vacuous.
Comment by Sirica — April 21, 2008 @ 11:33 pm
When you think of ivy, do you feel compelled to sing On the Street Where You Live?
Comment by NuclearWinter — April 21, 2008 @ 11:52 pm
Thanks, Sirica. I have a miserable time with my internet connnection going down and I have to run diagnostics etc., and I miss a few minutes. Thanks for staying on.
Comment by justice4all — April 22, 2008 @ 12:04 am
I think of the senior Laureans often and my heart goes out to them, particularly the mother. They came up here and did fine, then their boy lands up in a Mexican jail. They, above all others, will know all about the legal system there. I can’t understand a system that thinks guilty until proven innocent. What if contentious neighbors allege misdeeds. How will you ever prove you didn’t do anything?
Comment by justice4all — April 22, 2008 @ 12:08 am
Justice4All: I just wanted to post a little about court martials. I am by no means an expert on them but I do know about the military. Before a court martial there is an Article 32 which is similar to a civilian grand jury. Evidence is submitted and if there is enough evidence, a court martial will go forward. I don’t think anyone would be convicted without evidence. Also, each side can and does have legal counsel. They are lawyers and you can also have a civilian lawyer if you so choose…but you have to pay for all the legal fees. But a military lawyer is available for no cost.
Comment by me — April 22, 2008 @ 9:19 am
Thanks, me, that is helpful. I know in the Lincoln conspiritors’ trial that they did have legal counsel, however I wondered if the military is willing to go for all the lengthy delays and “objections” and so forth that takes so long in civillian courts.
Comment by justice4all — April 22, 2008 @ 11:55 am
hi all!
Has Here is found the site on this cause analsexy.110mb.comanal sex
I here each day with 5 hours
Comment by missxxx — June 6, 2008 @ 10:06 am
homicide lawyer florida…
These lawyers generally handle civil, rather than criminal, cases. Although all lawyers continue to use law libraries to prepare cases, most supplement conventional printed sources with computer sources, such as the Internet and legal databases….
Trackback by homicide lawyer florida — June 20, 2008 @ 9:20 am
blood monitor…
blood monitor…
Trackback by blood monitor — August 13, 2008 @ 12:14 pm
Blog…
Blog…
Trackback by Blog — February 1, 2009 @ 4:15 pm
First of all none of us will know the truth until this case is unveiled. Second we can come to all the conclusions that we want but the main thing remains that a PREGNANT woman was murdered!!! People in N.C. should be trying to find a way to change the law of it being 1 count of murder!! Whoever killed her and her baby should be tried for 2 counts of murder. North Carolina does not consider it a living breathing human simply because it is still in the womb. As a woman who may or may not be able to have children it makes me sick to think they do not think of it as a human being. I feel in my heart that if it has a brain, heart , lungs, and eyes same as us that it is a living being. Yes I am also a wife of a Marine, who at the time this happened i was there in N.C. I believe that woman around the world need to stand up and fight for the unborn children who never have the chance of knowing what this world is like. It can be a beautiful place, if we just get behind each other and stand up for what is RIGHT!!!
Comment by concernedmilitarywife — March 6, 2009 @ 1:55 am
concernedmilitarywife, hey, I’m right behind you on that one. It IS double murder, and I believe there are people who want the law changed. Stuff like that doesn’t happen overnight, but it usually does happen with enough of a groundswell of public opinion.
The fact that Maria was pregnant is one of the things that makes it so horrific. Not to mention, of course, just killing someone is horrific enough, let alone a pregnant girl.
It has always been my feeling that something occurred, or was said, that just caused Cesar to lose all reason and restraint. The ‘fight’ could have been actual ‘combat’ rather than words. She could have been swinging at him and landed a few painful blows. We just don’t know. It could have been something she said. I feel that she may (just my opinion) have threatened him that she would run him in for rape again, it could have been that she revealed who was the baby’s father.
One thing’s for certain. If anyone has any reason at all to fear someone, DON’T go to his house. If that isn’t putting yourself in harm’s way nothing is.
They could have had a drink or two, also. Maria was a very attractive girl and it is likely that something ‘romantic’ occurred, because they did have a history of an affair.
What do you think happened? I’d be very interested to know.
Comment by justice4all — March 6, 2009 @ 10:03 am
And, Concerned, you know that little vacation in Mexico’s wonderful jail might not be quite as nice as Onslow’s waterside pokey!!!! I doubt Cesar would find another Sheriff Brown.
Comment by justice4all — March 6, 2009 @ 10:05 am
Justice, i try not to speculate as to what happened that horrible day. The only people who know what happened that day is all who are involved. I feel in my heart of hearts that his wife and someone else were involved. The news I thought said that the neighbors remembering seeing the wife painting the house not long after Maria went missing. If i am wrong please correct me. But my first thought was WHY would she be doing that if she wasn’t in on it? We can all sit here and wonder about that fateful day, but the truth remains we will never truly know what happened. Maria took that pain to that shallow fire pit of a grave with her. I mourn for her and her family and that beautiful little life that never had a chance. You know I wish I could turn back the hands of time and be a passer by that day. We are also neglecting to mention that soon after Maria that 2 more Military females lost their lives due to crazies on the murder war path. 1 was a mother of 2 and her husband was in the Marines. The other was an Army dental who was 7 MONTHS PREGNANT who was found in a tub in a hotel. These people I hope will be punished to the fullest extent of the law. I know if Cesar gets back to the States that he can not be put to death , God forgive me for what i am about to say but I hope that those men in prison make what LIFE HE WILL HAVE A LIVING HELL!!! That goes for the other men involved in the other murders!
Comment by concernedmilitarywife — March 12, 2009 @ 3:02 am
Thanks, Concerned. Yes, those other two murders were horrific too. Holley Wimunc was trying to get out of the situation, but it seems her husband finally went far beyond just threatening her with that gun. I read something out of the autopsy report recently and the medical examiner said she was shot. As far as I know her husband, John Wimunc is in jail awaiting whatever comes next and finally a trial. The two children were not children of the marriage and they are probably safe with family members.
The other one was Megan Touma, and that is totally horrible. Haven’t heard anything from the autopsy report, although I might have missed it. I don’t know if she knew that the baby’s father was married, but he is in jail now.
I think it is important for us to find out all we can because these three women aren’t the ONLY ones who stand in danger. I have a feeling that abuse escalates, Shouting turns to threats and threats turn to action.
Just about the best we can do is to try to determine just what caused the final situation and get the word out to women who are ‘endangered’ and who continue to associate with abusive men. There could also be men who are being abused, too, and the very same goes for them.
Comment by justice4all — March 12, 2009 @ 7:29 pm
Concerned, I went to witn.com and saw a brief article that said Megan Touma likely died of asphixiation, and it is likely that she was strangled. There was also mention of blunt force.
Comment by justice4all — March 12, 2009 @ 7:41 pm
Justice, thank you for the information on the other 2 women who suffered a horrible end to their lives. I have to say Thank God the 2 children were no where around to see or hear the horrific ending. I also hope that they will still be able to live some what of a normal life. Hell is there such a thing as normal anymore? As I have said before it pains me and my heart to know that there are men and women who turn to violence to handle a situation.
I have mentioned before that as a female who may or may not ever be able to have children, it really upsets me and excuse my language pisses me off that people have no concern for a child’s life. I am facing the fact that i may have to have inverto just to conceive, and you hear bout men and woman killing these babies or pregnant woman getting murdered, all I can do is sit and cry! If people would realize how precious life is maybe they would take care of it more.
Sometimes I wish that i could make those people feel what i feel, you know. It has kind of helped talking to you through here. It sounds crazy I know but it is true. I wonder what those three woman were like before hell came for them? I think a life in prison for those men are too good for them. Sorry that is my temper showing it’s ugly face….lol!
It is kind of hard for me to keep up with all the stats on the cases since i have been away from Jacksonville N.C. Is there a site or something that I can go to to keep up on it?
Or will you keep me up to date with it please? A friend of mine who is still in N.C. was supposed to send me the news papers from there but well she hasn’t done it yet.
I have a question for you, was it Maria’s mother or step mother who said she was on the bipolar side? Don’t know if those are the right words or not but just trying to understand! If there is anything else you would like to know my feelings on just ask I will answer as honest as I can.
Comment by concernedmilitarywife — March 13, 2009 @ 12:27 am
By the way Justice did they investigate the guy who went to Lowe’s with Cesar? And why are they not looking into his wife having anything to do with it? Just concerned about that!
Comment by concernedmilitarywife — March 13, 2009 @ 12:29 am
Hi, concerned. Mary is Maria’s adopted mother. She was related to Maria and her sister Anne somehow. Maria and Anne’s childhood wasn’t all that great so Mary and her husband adopted them both when they were very young. I believe Maria was about 18 months. And it was her that said the things about Maria being bipolar.
As for the guy that was at Lowe’s…from what was reported he was interviewed and that was it. Don’t think he did anything wrong. As for the wife…well, they have no evidence to charge her with anything. As it has been said…just because LE may feel something, they have to have evidence to back it up.
And if you look on JD News’ website, they have all of the archived stories regarding Maria. Plus, Lindell has a section set up here on his blog.
Comment by AnnDaniel — March 13, 2009 @ 7:12 am
THANK YOU ANN, THAT HELPS. I WAS KIND OF CONFUSED AS TO WHO IS WHO AND WHAT WAS WHAT . ALL THOSE MURDERS AND TRYING TO KEEP TRACK OF THEM ALL IS MIND BOGGLING.
WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET CESAR BACK IN THE STATES? I KNOW THAT IF THEY DO THEY CAN’T SEEK THE DEATH PENALTY , SO WHAT IS THE NEXT BEST THING? LIFE IN PRISON I FEEL IS TOO GOOD FOR HIM!!!!
IT IS SAD TO SAY I FEEL THIS WORLD IS GOING TO HELL IN A HAND BASKET. TO BAD WE CAN’T KIND OF GO BACK TO THE DAYS WHERE WE COULD SLEEP WITH OUR DOORS UNLOCKED OR SLEEP ON THE BIG SCREENED IN FRONT PORCH.
Comment by concernedmilitarywife — March 14, 2009 @ 1:18 am
Hi, Concerned. I think jdnews.com is about the best site. I found it early on in Maria’s case and have always found the news to be accurate and unbiased.
If it is any help to you I have a neighbor who had invitro for her first pregnancy. It was twins. They were barely 2 months old before another baby was on the way!!!!!
Comment by justice4all — March 14, 2009 @ 3:53 pm
Justice, thanks for the site I on it . I just hope that her family will get the peace they need when this is all over.
Holy cow twins????????? Now you have me worried…..lol. The way I see it is if God will bless me with 1 I will adopt the rest. Did you know the state of Ga is trying to stop that. Woman like me and cancer patients will have a hard time now if they do pass that law.
What right do they have to tell us what we can and can’t do with our eggs and body. If we are married unlike the octomom. Anyway I guess I have done enough venting for a lil while.
THANK YOU AND YOU ALL HAVE A BLESSED ONE
Comment by concernedmilitarywife — March 15, 2009 @ 12:56 am
Well, Concerned, it’s a long way from “trying” to stop something and actually stopping it!!!
I have heard of couples where they have begun the adoption proceedings and just about the time the adoption is happening they also find out they are expecting!!!!!
I think we have far, far, too much ‘regulation’ today. We are told what we can and can’t do in a way that would make the Founding Fathers cringe.
Some regulation is good. I’d sure hate to be out on the highway with NO rules whatever, it’s bad enough with the traffic codes we do have. Who knows what would happen without anything to regulate driving behavior.
BUT, some of the stuff we are chivvied and bullied with is just petty and silly.
Comment by justice4all — March 16, 2009 @ 11:28 am
Hello concerned,
Concerning, was Maria’s mother or step mother who said she was on the bipolar side?
The truth is, Mary is the adoptive mother of Maria, If the genealogy is important I will tell you, however, Maria was very traumatized before she was adopted.
I appreciate your sentiment on abortion, Pro Choice Leaders (IMO) are so bent on preserving their “dollar generating business” they are exploiting young woman and children when they refuse to punish someone for murder.
The current Law could allow a man\woman to punch a pregnant woman, or secretly give medication to abort a child with very little consequence.
I KNOW a woman has the right to choose and I am Pro Choice “ CHOOSE NOT TO SLEEP AROUND IF YOU WILL NOT ACCEPT THE CONCIQUECE. “ and if a child results from rape (by the way that very seldom happens, with the acceptation of date rape , because the woman is stressed and that makes it difficult to conceive) anyways I don’t believe the child should be punished. He\She did not ask to be conceived and is another victim of the rapist.
These murdered young ladies did the right thing and I personally am proud of them
Comment by Hello concerned — March 16, 2009 @ 1:16 pm
Sorry all I meant “Consequence”
I would also just like to state, that the relationship with Mary and Maria is not a cynical as some might feel. the reason it is hard to trace by birth records is that Clara (Maria’s Great Grandma) was a 1/2 sister of Mary’s Father, their are adoptions etc.
The resemblance is not as close biologically as it seems.
Any reference to Bi-Polar was in Reference to Maria’s Bio-Father and the emotional condition in which Maria spent her 1st couple of years
Comment by Hello concerned — March 16, 2009 @ 3:26 pm
To Hello concerned: No, the reference that Mary made about Maria being bipolar had nothing to do with Maria’s biological father. Mary was being interviewed by a news station. I can’t provide a link since the link is no longer working. But in that video Mary stated that they suspected Maria to be bipolar and how she was a loner.
Comment by AnnDaniel — March 16, 2009 @ 3:43 pm
Ann, I was just making a few factual statements in regard to a family history and the link to the Bi Polar statement in the police report. This is the report that prompted the questions that were asked at the interview you are referring to, you and I have a different memory on the conversation you reference however I was only stating medical and biological info..
If memory serves me right, when Mary mentioned that Maria was a loaner she was not referring to Bi Polar she was refereeing to male\female relationships. Anyways , Concerned seemed to be genuine about her questions and I thought I would answer with medical information. LK can research it.
Comment by Hello concerned and ann — March 16, 2009 @ 6:15 pm
I remember the interviews with Mary very well, since each interview made my hair stand on end. She said that Maria had a problem with telling the truth, possibly bipolar, a loner, with no boyfriends. And even more troubling, knowing all of this, when Maria said she was raped, Mary never even made an attempt to come down here to see what was going on. Which still leads me to believe that Mary did not believe Maria had been raped.
Comment by The Blarney Stone — March 16, 2009 @ 6:59 pm
The Blarney Stone Blamey stone, I like your name, and thanks for the memory, that seems close to me. Also remember at the same time the Lauterbach found out that the Military was investigating Maria for Bi Polar If memory serves me right (one article was in people )
No matter who said what , I would like to see this case (in unity with all the other cases mentioned) help change the laws to protect the weakest of us all “THE UNBORN”
Isn’t that what this is all about. Lets spread a little kindness and protect those that can not protect themselves. Bi Polar or Unborn. Maria’s life was sad. She entered this world in a awful state and left this world in a horrible way. She tried to protect Gabriel and failed. But at the end of it all it seems she enjoyed her friends and sports and Loved her family.
There is some good here.
Comment by Hello The Blarney Stone — March 16, 2009 @ 7:27 pm
Hello “Hello” I like your statement that despite all the difficulties Maria had to struggle through, there was some good too.
I liked your ‘pro choice’ definition!!!!!
The ultimate comfort for me is that Maria, Gabriel, and all the others who have suffered death at the hands of someone else, ARE in a better place, and all their losses will be made up to them. It is hard for the families to lose someone, but one day we will see our loved ones again.
As far as spreading a little kindness goes, oh, what a wonderful idea, and there are many decent and kind people in our society, however sometimes it seems that the only ones we hear about are the villains!!!!
I’m all bothered by Representative Turner’s idea of getting Hillary onto the Mexican authorities. I’m scared mindless to think that it might just make the Mexicans dig in their heels and hold onto him because they fear that we’ve already got him tried, convicted, and sentenced by Congress. After all he’s one of them, he was born in Mexico, his parents, grandparents and so on down the line were all Mexicans, so they just might think we are trying to rush him through without regard for his rights.
Comment by justice4all — March 17, 2009 @ 1:20 am
WOW DIDN’T MEAN TO START AN UPROAR WITH MY COMMENT ON ABORTION. ANYWAY I AM JUST TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE FACT THAT SHE AND HER BABY LOST THEIR LIVES. AT THE TIME THAT IT HAPPENED LIKE I SAID I WAS IN THE AREA AND WAS WALKING BACK AND FORTH TO WORK. SO I WAS ALWAYS LOOKING OVER MY SHOULDER TIL THE MADE THE DISCOVERY OF WHO AND WHERE THAT PERSON WAS. THE ONLY REASON I SAID I FEEL THAT ABORTION SHOULD BE ONLY IF A PREGNANCY OCCURS OUT OF RAPE IS BECAUSE IT COULD HAPPEN . STRANGER THINGS HAVE HAPPENED I MEAN LOOK AT THE WORLD TODAY. THINGS ARE SO BASSACKWARDS THAT WE REALLY DON’T KNOW IF WE ARE COMING OR GOING. SOMEONE KIN TO ME HAD THE CHOICE OF ABORTION OR ADOPTION, AS HARD AS IT WAS THEY GAVE THE CHILD UP FOR ADOPTION. I FEEL THAT WAS BECAUSE AT A YOUNGER AGE THEY WERE FORCED TO HAVE AN ABORTION. IMAGINE WANTING THAT CHILD AND BEING FORCED TO HAVE THAT DONE. WOMAN HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHAT THEY WANT WITH THEIR BODIES BUT I KNOW GIRLS WHO HAVE GOTTEN PREGNANT 5 OR 6 TIMES AND EACH TIME IT HAS RESULTED IN THEM GETTING ABORTIONS. NOW HO WIS THAT RIGHT . AND IF MARIA WAS REALLY TRYING TO PROTECT HERSELF AND THE BABY THEN WHY THE HELL GO TO HIS HOUSE? THAT LEAVES ME VERY PUZZLED? NOT TRYING TO PISS ANYONE OFF I JUST WOULD LIKE TO KNOW.
Comment by concernedmilitarywife — March 18, 2009 @ 1:17 am
Concerned…that is a question alot of us would like answered….if Maria was so afraid of Cesar then why did she go to his house. We know from what Capt. Sutherland has stated is that there was contact made prior to her going there. Some people-especially family members IMO-believe that she didn’t go there willingly and that she was somehow kidnapped or lured there by him. Unfortunately, since Maria is no longer here to tell for herself, we’ll probably never know why she went….unless LE knows something that the general public doesn’t…and that’s always a possibility.
Comment by AnnDaniel — March 18, 2009 @ 6:56 am
Hi Ann and Concerned. I have wondered all along why she went ot his house. We just don’t know. I’d like to find out if LE knows!!!
Concerned, I know what you mean about 5 or 6 times with abortion. You know it isn’t even really good for the woman’s body because at the time of delivery all the necessary systems are on ‘full steam ahead’ and the baby is ready to make a grand entrance, but with abortion it is forcing open the cervix at a time when it is neither effaced nor pliable.
I think it could have some consequences somewhere down the line.
Although adoption is very painful for the birth mother and her family (poor grandparents) it has the bright side of giving a child the precious gift of life, and giving the adoptive family the joy of having a child to love and raise. Also, adoptions can be as ‘open’ as the parties thereto would like it to be, so often it isn’t a case of never seeing the baby again, but a case of being able to keep in touch and see that child grow up.
I am very pro-life, as you can probably tell. I know there are young girls who are more or less forced into abortion, and I think it is very hard on them. What I would like to see is less NEED for people to have abortions!!!! Yes, I think it just about could result from rape, but I think there’s something that can be done right away that would prevent pregnancy. I’m a bit hazy on that, though.
The bottom line is that there is a horrendous amount of pain from abortions, one way or another.
Comment by justice4all — March 18, 2009 @ 10:23 am
town car air suspension…
the first time ive ever had air suspension and a big car. i was wondering how much… Have it diagnosed at the dealer and price the needed parts elsewhere.You can spend alot of money……
Trackback by town car air suspension — March 21, 2009 @ 11:36 pm
usboc…
usboc usboc usboc…
Trackback by usboc — October 3, 2009 @ 9:24 am
uncle willies ct…
uncle willies ct uncle willies ct uncle willies ct…
Trackback by uncle willies ct — October 3, 2009 @ 9:24 am
us credit debt settlement company…
calgary ranch jobs guess fitchburg drive ins electronic repair in campbell ca…
Trackback by calgary ranch jobs guess — October 13, 2009 @ 2:47 pm
imageline fl studio xxl producer edition 8 0 final plugins…
golden girls wrestling what is my hypothesis for fresh water and salt water sports romances…
Trackback by mr cartoon cortez — October 27, 2009 @ 6:32 pm
sitemap…
sitemap site top…
Trackback by http — October 27, 2009 @ 6:32 pm
school wet accident…
medical school interview tip warrensburg new york high school massage school thousand oaks…
Trackback by warrensburg new york high school — October 27, 2009 @ 6:33 pm
sheet music for saxophones happy birthday…
jonathan dayton and valerie faris sheet music for saxophones happy birthday under the sea birthday party…
Trackback by green day vs. oasis vs. aerosmith — November 3, 2009 @ 8:14 am
wireless dell laptop latitude computer fast notebook nr…
dell laptops for schools wireless dell laptop latitude computer fast notebook nr ibm laptop screen troubleshooting…
Trackback by ibm laptop screen troubleshooting — November 3, 2009 @ 8:14 am